Patriotism <> Nationalism

[Selwynn]

And I'm sick of people lying and saying that it does.

Merriam-Websters Dictionary has the following definitions:

Patriotism
Main Entry: pa·tri·ot·ism
Pronunciation: 'pA-trE-&-"ti-z&m, chiefly British 'pa-
Function: noun
Date: circa 1726
: love for or devotion to one's country

Nationalism
Pronunciation: 'nash-n&-"li-z&m, 'na-sh&-n&l-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1844
: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

Basically the difference between Patriotism and Nationalism is like the difference between an Episcopal protestant and a extreme right wing fundamentalist Christian. Maybe nationalism should be called "extreme" patriotism. But by the dictionary definition of these terms it is radically unfair to act as though anyone who uses the term "patriotism" is de fecto embracing nationalism.

Just because I love chocolate doesn't mean I want to place it above all others and promote chocolate over all other foods. It just means I love chocolate - I can still appreciate and enjoy other foods too.

Loving something does not necessary mean seeking to make it superior to everything else. The two terms are different.

I do love my country. God bless America, man. That doesn't mean I want to see us take over the world or be superior to all other countries. I just love the country I live in and desire to make the most of it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Great post!

You've hit the nail on the head. Too many people think that if you don't believe the US is the be all and end all of the world and should be the ruler of everything, they say you're unpatriotic. Or worse, they call you a traitor or terrorist. Thanks for the definition and analogy. I can use both in discussion with nationalists who think they are patriots.

[caledesi]

2. Thank you for this post. Explained it well. nt

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Three thumbs up!

Five, if you include the big toes!

Excellent post! In a few words, you defined Patriotism better than I have seen in many years. A small thing, yes, but America is still the richer for it. Well done!

And most especially -- thank you.

--bkl

[JailForBush]

4. I'm working on an article that explores the differences between patriotism

and nationalism. From left to right, there's patriotism, nationalism, jingoism and fascism, or something like that.

I think of nationalism as sort of a selfish patriotism, though it really isn't patriotic at all. I'm not even that crazy about the concept of patriotism; what's wrong with simple common sense? Why should I have to pin a flag on my chest and talk about "my country" when advocating a cause? I don't like pollution, period. I don't say it as an American or a veteran; I just don't like it.

I also like the term global patriotism, which suggests a patriotic feeling that transcends national borders.

[JailForBush]

5. P.S. My favorite patriotism quote:

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against its government.” Edward Abbey

[Gman]

6. This needed to be posted

America needs to be educated about the differences here and the dangers in nationalism. 1938 Germany was very nationalistic.

[izzie]

7. Great post. Thanks

:grouphug:

[Doc_Technical]

8. Patriotism

For most people, patriotism means supporting your country
after a decision has been made by those who are in authority.

In democracies like ours, the theory is that there is no
final authority (appointed by God who has the final say,
and to question their decision is tantamount to treason
and blasphemy to God).

Whether through ignorance, fear, laziness, eliteism, raceism,
or apathy, many people except a tidy package of simple
answers to issues that they refuse to see how complex they are.

Most people would rather bave a straight answers given to them rather than wade through multiple viewpoints and the ambiguity that confronts those of us who give issues serious thought and attempt to to be somewhat neutral.


To my mind, to be called "Un-American" or a "Traitor"
is the ultimate compliment.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Love of country. Why?

You say, " I do love my country. God bless America, man." Why? What is it you love about America? The constitution? The People? The cooking? The "golden waves of grain"? Walmart? Exxon? The health system? Amarillo, Texas? Inner city slums? Majestic forests? Clearcuts?

Why America? Why not Angola or Lebanon? Would you love your country if it were Burma with it's military dictatorship? Or is it just a matter of birth?

Why should God bless America? Does He(she/it) have patriotic feelings about America?

Or, is your love of country merely an appreciation of some parts of the American experience? Is it possible to "love" America and other countries? I've travelled in a number of countries and "loved" aspects of all of them.

You say that you "love" chocolate. Are you willing to defend chocolate against all enemies both foreign and domestic? Do you pledge allegiance to chocolate?

As a young marine, I was asked to extend my enlistment to go to Vietnam and kill people out of "love of country". It caused me to ask myself some questions about patriotism. Did I "love" America enough to kill unknown people that I had no quarrel with? Are American lives more valuable than the lives of Vietnamese? Or, Cubans, or Chinese, or whoever the government designates enemies of America?

I refused to extend my enlistment.

I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of a very small world full of things, and people of value no matter where they happen to have been born.

[baldguy]

10. Real patriots recognize that problems exist.

And care enough to want to fix them.

Nationalists recognize no problems, or if they do they try to twist and contort the truth to make it seem positive - even though it's destroying the country.

btw: LOVE spell check

[Zero Gravitas]

11. Nationalism

too many Amercians confuse Nationalism with Patriotism. Too many Americans are Nationalists. Nationalism is also a fundamental part of Fascism. Not all Nationalists are Fascists, but all Fascists are nationalists, Mr. Aschcroft.

[Solon]

12. A couple of questions please.

What do you mean when you say you love your country? Also, why should God bless it. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say God(ess)s bless the World? For example, I do not view myself as a patriot, never have and never will. I believe in the ideals of democracy and of self determination. I do not identify them as traits unique or confined to one nation, and no nation emobodies those ideals perfectly. I am a citizen of the US and therefore will work within the system to improve the lives of all citizens, and hopefully of citizens around the world. I view patriotism and nationalism as extensions of "group pride" simular to for example "White pride" or other exclusionist ideology. How can anyone be proud of being something that they themselves did absolutely nothing to be, is beyond me. Your parents are the ones who did the deed, is that something for you to be proud of?

[Selwynn]

13. A couple of answers:

What do I mean when I say I love my country? I mean the exact same thing that countless honorable statesmen and "patriots" have meant down through the centuries going all the way back to the founding fathers: that I cherish the great experiment of freedom, self-determination, rights and democracy that this country was founded on and believe in its value. I believe that it is good that we broke away from england and declared that we are a self-governing people, and I cherish that self-government. I mean that I love the ideals and principles this nation was founded on, and desire to see them fulfilled. It also means that I grieve when my country goes through dark times, or is plagued by corruption of those foundational principles by evil men. But I don't turn away from bitterness from the fact that I value the grand experiment that is the self-determinate legacy of this country, and I desire to fight for the core ideas that were basic to its original establishment.

Why should God Bless this country? Because this country is part of the world. Nothing in my saying God bless this country implies that God should not bless the rest of the world. But I live here. I participate in and am part of this democracy, I believe in and support this Constitution and this bill of rights, and my when I say "God Bless America" I mean God bless that undertaking - giving strength to those who even now fight the forces of oppression and tyranny trying to tear the country apart from the inside - those who still believe in liberty and justice for all. It is appropriate and natural that a person might pray for God to bless his or her own family. That doesn't mean that he or she wishes ill or does not wish blessing to every person on earth - but I'm also not going to lie to you and say I don't have a more special love and concern about my immediate family, because I do and that's only natural. I want God to bless this whole aching, groaning world with new life and great peace. But I have a special place in my heart for my own country, the society in which I participate and contribute, in which my children with grow up, in which I will likely live for the rest of my life, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Patriotism as I just made abundantly clear cannot be treated as the same thing as nationalism. Nationalism is an extreme or fanatical end of Patriotism. There is nothing wrong with "group pride" until it becomes fanatical. There is nothing wrong with Christian faith until it becomes right-wing extremism. There is nothing wrong with cherishing your own cultural heritage - African, Asian, Spanish, European, etc. -- until it becomes xenophobic extremism.

If you don't feel any "pride" or love of your own cultural history that's fine and dandy. But culture, history and roots is a relational experience that is extremely important to many people and there is nothing wrong about it, UNTIL it is taken to extremes. It's not about being proud of something you have no control over. It's about embracing a community of folks through which you share a common connection and shared history, legacy and identity, and let me tell you - that is a beautiful thing.

The problem today is with extremism. There is nothing wrong with feeling deeply connected to a cultural heritage, or a national history, or any other kind of community experience. In fact, feeling connected to a cultural community like this is deeply healthy and lacking far to often in the lives of many today. However, if this isn't far you - FINE. Just don't go around judging and mass stereotyping everyone else who does embrace such community and legacy.