Some thoughts about the religious aspect of health care.

[Cleita]

The fifth commandment, “You shall not kill”, has many interpretations. This commandment is invoked by pro-lifers against abortion. In the Catholic Church there is also in the corporal works of mercy, the Christian duty to heal the sick.

During the Christian era, it became the life work of religious orders to build charity hospitals to care for the sick and dying because they believed that the fifth commandment clearly told them that to let someone die without trying to save their life was a sin of omission and was as much a mortal sin as killing someone directly.

It seems to me then that universal health care should be considered by Christians and Jews, to be not only a human right, but a duty that no person who falls sick can be denied the access to health care regardless of their ability to pay for it. No one should die because they can’t get the pills, therapy or operation they need to get well. So, if this is true, we as a Judeo/Christian nation should be demanding this of our lawmakers.

No one should make obscene profits from health care dollars that should be used to care for the sick. As a point of reference, Medicare uses only 2% of its funds for administrative costs as contrary to the most efficient private system which uses 17%. It makes sense that universal health care dollars be administered by the government and not private, for profit, health care institutions.

Since it is the religious right who had a big role in installing the present corporatists and supply side economists in our government by preaching against the morals of the previous administration from their pulpits, are they not guilty of breaking the most grave of all the commandments themselves? It seems to me that they need to start examining their collective conscience and see what evil they have wrought.

I think it’s time for Christians and Jews to start bringing this up to their pastors and rabbis for serious debate.

[Pegleg Thd]

1. I agree with what you say but

it will only happen when we can get the republicans out of the churches and government..

[Cleita]

2. So what will it take to get congregations to insist to their

pastors that they do so. You do control the purse strings and they will listen if the collection plate funds start to dry up.

[camero]

4. I think that the pastors are part of the problem.

I don't think they really care how many come as much as who antes up in the kitty. Which would mean more wealthy people. They were pharisees at the time of Jesus and they are pharisees now.

Which is why I stopped going. Just me protesting outside of a right wing church isnt going to do anything but with others, the pastor may want to escape the bad local publicity by establishing programs or outright calling for a single payer system as some have done already.

[Malva Zebrina]

3. I agree that health care should not be doled out according

to who can afford it. Whether or not it is a "Judeo/Christian belief is, for me not the primary question. The Hippocratic oath, for instance is not a Judeo/Christian concept and health care before Christianity was a matter of the state--and not a for profit venture as it is today.

It is simply , to me , a matter of one human being caring about another-- the unique response, inbred, of human beings and necessary for the continuance of the species. A response that I think in this c ountry is essential to it's infrastructure and strength.

However, lately, I have come to understand that the Eskimo setting out on the ice of those persons not positively contributing to the society, or those who would be a burden upon that society, might be where we are headed--those of us who are the more practical and the least monetarily equipped to carry on might see that as the alternative to spending thousands of dollars amonth on managed care in a nursing home, completely under the rule of those who run the place.

[Cleita]

5. True I agree with you that it should be a human concern.

My position though is that those who preach about the ten commandments are not following them themselves.

[Malva Zebrina]

6. yes, that is true

but it has always been true. These ten commandments are so vague and so open to various interpretation that they are virtually useless by this time. Also there are many other rules set down over history by others that will also afford one a rule by which to live the good llfe. The Buddha is not all the bad and for a long time Confucious has had a few good hints to offer. China, as a primarily Buddhist culture over time has never, as far as I know, invaded a country pre-emptively to gain something for itself. It has never been an aggressor.

For instance--thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods. Well, I may covet my neighbor's goods, in the form of his antique Roll Royce automobile. And, consequently, because I do covet his goods, see fit to offer him a substantial amount of money for his "goods". And he may, actually, accept my offer and sell me his "goods"

There are entirely too many arbitrary interpretations of these ten commandments to ever focus upon them as a black and white , rule to live the good life.

And we have seen the proof of that over time.

[camero]

7. It covers all forms of killing

Including indifference. Whatever the human mind can imagine. Against saint or sinner. They are not living up to thier own book.

Coveting also covers wanting to be better than someone else.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. You're right...

and it's not just the Commandments involved.

Christ's teachings to heal the sick and feed the hungry have led many Christians to to so just that. Mother Theresa is one of the most publicized examples, but there are thousands of others.

Judaism has had other leadings toward charity, and Islam requires it as one of the basics. Other religions lead toward it as well. Religion has lead millions toward building hospitals, opening schools, and so many other worthwhile endeavors.

But, just as often it has obstructed other efforts, and there have been many secular endeavors. Depending upon religion of any sort to do the necessary is a chancy thing.

Many Christians have believed God endorsed slavery and the poor have only themselves to blame for it. Many more just don't give a damn. This is likely true with all other religions.

[Malva Zebrina]

10. that is certainly true and I for one, do admire the work of Mother Theresa

but, also, those who are not believers in the same, have also shown their compassion and their ability to want to help those others of their species and have done so without the reward of the carrot and stick afterlife in a shangri-la heaven. We do not have oranized "missions" and for that I am grateful, indeed.

It is simply done in the present without any sort of reward in the future "after death" in mind--it is truly, humanitarian, in that sense.

Human beings, helping other human beings, need not , necessarily be involved in a "Christain" undertaking , you know. Some of us are independant enough to know our worth is not dependant upon a hierarchy of hierophants in some wealthy state telling others we are not worht anything and are indeed, an enemy.

Some of us simply have compassion for our fellow human beings without being committed to any religion. Some of us do not and cannot buy religion as it is preached by the mainstream religions today.

We may join with you as long as you do not see fit to disparage and alienate us because your religion teaches that we, who cannot believe as you, are indeed the spawn of an evil imaginary person called a satan and you are in some way "better", because that is what your religion teaches you about us.

You are not better and if anything, George Bush in his born again Christianity has proven that.

So we non believers indeed do have a case to present--and we can present the shallowness of a George Bush and his Christianity that is tied up with absolute evil as the reason we cannot believe.

[LeahMira]

9. The Eskimos...

I have come to understand that the Eskimo setting out on the ice of those persons not positively contributing to the society, or those who would be a burden upon that society

... did that kind of thing in times of famine or other danger when the care of a weaker member of the group might result in the extinction of the entire group. We are hardly in that situation in the U.S.

[Cleita]

11. Yes, they lived on the extreme edge of survival so sometimes

they had to have extreme solutions to life's problems. I understand that freezing to death is less traumatic than most.

[Malva Zebrina]

12. I appreciate the thoughtfulness behind that post

but, indeed, it would seem that the survival of the group, (baby boomers and those coming up behing them) does indeed depend upon the elders using up the money the baby boomers are currently contributing. Is that not true? Is it not true that many boomers believe that they are sending out their money to seniors who are indeed "using it up" on frivolous pursuits such as heart surgery and the like, when the money should be better spent. or saved for those who are currently "contrtributing" today. Nevermind that the seniors also contributed over their lifetime -- they no longer have the confidence of that system because, well because they have lived too long and now they need, actually, some open heart surgery to enable them to live, and it will allow them to live another ten years.

Well, excuse me, but is that worth it?

Do they deserve this for an extended life period of say, ten years, when others are not sure they can receive anything that will prolong their lives, in spite of their lifelong contributions?

There will come a time when people, human beings, will need to face , realistically, their relationships with other human beings. Do we help the elderly fade away peacefully or do we fight them as enemies because we sense that we are contributing, but that we are not getting anything from that contibution. What, exactly, is the teaching of Christianity when it comes to thy mother and thy father?

[Cleita]

13. I certainly believe everyone should have access to health care.

Our health care dollars should be pooled to be used by those who need it, not just the elderly or children or those who can afford to pay. It's part of sharing, which is a human thing. Primitive societies share their food with everyone in the community even though, they are too young, too old or too crippled to contribute.

It should be the same with health care in our technologically advance society. Eventually, those who have contributed will need access and it should be available to them even though they are not able to contribute anymore.

[Cleita]

14. Kick

For anyone else who wants to add their two-cents.