Democrats are stupid, Republicans are greedy

[fishguy]

A friend of mine who is a very moderate Republican always says this.
I am convinced of it now.
For example, I post how the Pope and the Catholic Church is liberal in many regards, which would make Democrats look good in Catholic voters eyes, then I get all of these replies bashing the Pope and Catholics. What Catholic in their right mind would want to belong to a party that bashes their religion.

Obviously, many Democrats are oblivious to political realities.
If you want to get rid of Bush, you have to court the largest political constituency in the country(besides gender or race), that being Catholics.

How hard is that to understand?
Political reality.

[Kazak]

1. Quote:

"I belong to no organized political party. I am a Democrat."

-Will Rogers

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. Its like herding cats....

Democrats need to realize that politicians pander....YES! Even the one you really like!

[fishguy]

3. Let me give you an example of political reality

I live in a heavily Catholic area that has been historically Democratic, albeit socially conservative but economically liberal.
Very swing voter type region.
The area, heavily Catholic, has been becoming more and more Republican.
People, who were formerly Democrat, ask me how can I be a Democrat with all of those liberals(i.e. social issues) in the party. I point out to them the Democrats support unions and the little guy and so does the Catholic Church(i.e. economic issues).
Always get a consensus agreeement when I make those points.

But when I come on this site, anything Catholic always gets a heavy dose of negative replies.
Lack of political savvy.

Carrot and not the stick. I point out the pro-Catholic views of the Democratic party and liberalism, not the shortcomings.

How hard is it to understand that political reality?
Bashing the Pope and the Catholic Church does Democrats no good in the long term.

[specimenfred1984]

4. Anti-choice, Anti-equal rights, Anti-Women is Liberal?

The Pope isn't liberal, that's soooooooooooooo obvious.

And there are as many different types of catholics as there are people.

Pandering to a group by telling them lies isn't good politics, it's lies.

[fishguy]

5. You know nothing about Catholic issues....

The Catholic Church is very conservative on issues of sexuality and reproduction, very liberal on social and economic issues.
And the Pope is very liberal on many issues.
Perhaps you have forgotten about the war in Iraq.

Again, you made my point about stupid Democrats.


Instead of focusing on pro-Democrat, pro-liberal, pro-Catholic social and economic issues, you focused on the opposite.
Does nothing to court Catholic voters, again the largest voting bloc in the US, except for gender and race.

[ochazuke]

19. ALL POLITICIANS ARE LIARS (period)

In fact, politics might be called "the art of the lie". A man who tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth is not suited to politics. He will be branded a fool and a loser, then sent off to teach at a community college somewhere.

Nevertheless, there are good people in politics. The lies they tell are just not on the order of the monster lies that bushco & the rethuglican army crank out constantly.

[Kanary]

20. I can think of one who isn't

I understand your cynicism, I truly do.

But, understand, also, that it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Again, I know one who is not a liar.

Kanary

[Kanary]

21. If you look at the reality, you see there are both

It has been said, I'm repeating it.

The Pope is liberal (it could be said revolutionary) on some issues, conservative on others.

When you choose to ignore that, you turn your back on people who share some of your issues.

Not a way to win friends and influence people.

Kanary

[Another Bill C.]

6. I agree

When I was young, being Catholic and Democrat were almost synonymous. My dad was strongly pro-union and a big rooter for the underdog. For most of our lives, my family followed his lead. In our minds, Republicans were the standard bearers for the WASP mentality.

At some point, though, the Democratic party became focused on the choice issue and that became the litmus test for deciding who was a good Democrat. I recall being rudely shouted down at a precinct caucus when arguing for a pro-life resolution. I never went to a precinct caucus after that.

Most of the church-goers in my family now vote Republican and are fervently conservative.

[fishguy]

7. Here is another example of being pro-Catholic, pro-Democrat, pro-liberal

I was at Mass a few weeks ago. The priest explained how John the Baptist's main message was justice, fairness, equality.
If that is not the core Democratic/liberal/progressive message, I do not know what is.

Justice, fairness, equality-Not a bad slogan for Democrats!!!

[leftyandproud]

8. problem

"justice, fairness, and equality" have nearly opposite definitions for people with different visions of how the world works.

[fishguy]

9. Again, people miss my point

Stop thinking in these theoretical terms.

If you say those terms to Catholics, they know what you mean.
Easier to get them on your side.
It is called preaching to the choir.

For example, say states rights to Southern whites, they know what you mean.
Say, support second amendment to the gun industry, they know what you mean.

Part of think globally, act locally.

You don't talk to farmers in Iowa about traffic congestion in New York City.
You must know your audience.

[Kanary]

22. Problem?

It's also a problem to look a gift horse in the mouth.

The problem is, at least among many of the Dems on this board, is eating their own.

That is the point here.

Point your spears out there..... the problem is the neocons who would do us in.

The problem is not Catholics who believe in justice, fairness and equality. That is NOT a problem. There is no need to argue semantics, because we're talking about the same thing. "They", and people of other denominations, are not the problem. They are NOT the problem.

The neocons are the problem.

The fundies are the problem.

Tearing up the people who are lifelong Dems because of semantics is..... self-defeating.

Spears pointed at neocons, fundies.

Goodwill, not spears, toward Catholics and others who understand justice, fairness and equality.

Step in the right direction.

Kanary

[SharonAnn]

28. Actually, it was Republicans who focused on the anti-choice issue

They were and are the ones who want to drive a wedge between religious people and the Democratic Party. They use this issue and now they'll use "gay marriage".

The Democratic Party stands for democracy and individual freedom and equal rights under the law.

[Yupster]

33. From 2000 exit poll

14 % of total voters Attend Religious Services More Than Weekly
Bush - 63 %
Gore - 36 %

Weekly (28 %)
Bush - 57 %
Gore - 40 %

Monthly (14 %)
Gore - 51 %
Bush - 46 %


Seldom (28 %)
Gore - 54 %
Bush - 42 %


Never (14 %)
Gore - 61 %
Bush - 32 %

[SOteric]

10. The Republicans are the greedy party, the Democrats are the

stupid party, and bi-partisanship is when they get together to do something both greedy and stupid.

[rucky]

12. That is a classic!

If I quote it, I'll be sure to cite the source.

[fishguy]

15. Great quote!!!

[FDRrocks]

11. I'm pretty sure Democrats are pretty greedy too.

It's the lobbyists. Other than that, that seems like an accurate statement, to me at least.

edit: I have nothing against Catholics. I used to be Roman Catholic. Liberal on social issues and Conservative on sexual and reproductive issues sound about right. I disagree on the birth control deal though.

[rucky]

13. Another Catch-22:

We call people "sheeple" when they believe Republican leaders, who follow Republican leaders partly because Democrats call them "sheeple".

[FDRrocks]

14. Maybe we just are too cynical.

But it's really hard not to be cynical when there is so much bullshit flying around and so many people are just accepting it. :(

[Cleita]

16. I know what you are saying.

I'm an ex-Catholic myself, but I still have relatives and friends who practice. So putting down what they believe in does not make brownie points for me and they would be less inclined to listen to what I have to say if I trash them and their religion.

[maggrwaggr]

17. Yes, why do you think the GOP has "gay marriage" as their 2004 issue

they know that traditional folks are against "gay marriage".

The media's running with it and many democrats are taking the bait.

[FDRrocks]

18. Maybe augmenting the issue

to Civil Union, where Gay couples can be recognized to be in a union and get the economic benefits of it, would help? Marriage, I mean the term 'Marriage', is a religious thing, and religions are typically anti-Gay.

I can see the point of pushing for Gay 'marriage', as being Gay does not exclude one from being religious, but I mean maybe the political ripples would be less severe if we terms it Civil Union for the time being, and waited until the liberals in America are in a stronger position to press further.

Just an idea.

[Kanary]

23. Inspiring people to get their bowels in an uproar

over nothing is the M.O. of the right wing.

THere is one candidate who has made an issue of this fact.

We can now plow ahead and keep the *Real* issues in the spotlight.

Or, we can keep spitting at each other over the red herrings.

Kanary

[fishguy]

27. So Dems need to fin an issue t balanceit

Like how the poverty rate and hunger rate in America how skyrocketed under Bush.
Instead of reactng, Dems should be proactive.
Why is it that NO ONE is making a big deal out of these stats.
Very troubling issues, but largely ignored.

[maggrwaggr]

29. because people have been told to believe it's the poor's own fault

and now that's the common conception.

Get a job, loser!

[stevebreeze]

24. I was alsways told there are two kinds of scandal, Dem or GOP

Democrats tend to get caught with their pants down. Republicans tend to get caught with their hands in other people pants pocket.

[SharonAnn]

34. But now the Repubs also get caught with pants down AND

their hands in other people's pants pockets.

I've been saving stories for over a year now of various GOP sexual crimes/accusations. Of particular interest was the mayor of Bridgeport who hired child prostitutes. We had one when I lived near Cincinnati about 8-10 years ago who also was caught doing that. He had been a respected, conservative Republican House member until that came out.

There's some kind of a pattern of denial, entitlement, perversion that affects some of the "holier than thous" types. It's kind of like some of the most vitriolic anti-homosexuality people have related issues of their own.

Not sure what it is but I'm sure a psychologist could help explain it.

[wanderingbear]

25. And the Greens got a plan.

But no one can seem to understand it..

[Terwilliger]

26. stupid is as stupid does

I don't know why that's appropriate, but I thought I'd share

[Trajan]

30. This ex-catholic declares this is pure bait ....

"Cmon ... knock that chip off my shoulder ..." ...

"I double dare ya ...."

[durutti]

31. No.

The Church is reactionary, almost by definition. It's a remnant of the Dark Ages.

I have nothing against Catholics, but I strongly oppose the Church as an institution.

[sandnsea]

32. Burn everything in your path

Seems to be the overriding sentiment as of late. I'm amazed Democrats ever win an election anywhere.

[many a good man]

35. Dems and social issues: Economic vs. Social liberalism

There IS a difference. You could be one and not the other. I would posit that most "Reagan Dems" vote that way because of wedge social issues, busing, crime, abortion tops among them. Dem decline began with the emergence of wedge "value" issues.

DK, for example, is primarily an economic liberal, or populist. His district is socially conservative. His original stance on abortion probably helped him get elected. Hopefully his conversion won't doom him there. His newfound openness on other social issues may also lead him to lose reelection.

People here have to realize that there are a LOT of voters in our base that are Democrats BECAUSE OF economic issues and IN SPITE of social issues.

FDR realigned the electorate because he put working people's concerns at the forefront. The (Goldwater/)Reagan Revolution realigned the country because it put wedge social issues in front.

Traditional (white and white ethnic) blue collar workers are caught in the middle. They see Democrats as fighting for minorities and not for them. They see Democrats as championing social values that they oppose. They see Democrats raising taxes for programs that probably won't benefit them.

I'm as socially liberal as anyone here but I understand where these people are coming from because I grew up in a blue collar household in Cleveland. These people are decent people and they normally aren't racists. They tend to hold traditional moral values.

In the '50s Urban Renewal tore down the central city slums in Cleveland and didn't replace the housing stock. Very poor blacks had to move into formerly middle class white neighborhoods. Crime, violence, alcohol/drug abuse, and other symptoms of poverty naturally followed. People saw the once-idyllic neighborhoods of their youth gradually turn into slums as they moved out into the suburbs. The ones who stayed behind were the ones who couldn't afford to move out. They had to compete with the Blacks and Puerto Ricans (and "hillbillies") for low-paying jobs which threatened their self-esteem. Segregation by neighborhood was the norm and forced busing inflamed their emotions. They began to vote Republican in droves.

DK respects his constituents' socially conservative values and is looking for a way to move beyond them. He has shown how a person can move from a personal opposition to abortion to political tolerance of it. IMHO, if we can do this on the wider range of wedge issues we will become the majority party by a long shot. People's #1 concern is their pocketbook; Democrats need to reach out with social welfare policies that target the entire middle class, not just the very poor and minorities.

I'm not saying Democrats should run away from these social issues. We have to STOP BEING SO SELF-RIGHTEOUS about them. We need these people if we want to move this country forward. Don't antagonize them! The culture wars are over and liberals have won. We have to stop crowing about our support for these issues that have already been granted constitutional legitimacy. Support the Constitution, enforce the law, preach tolerance and move on to the really important issues!

On edit: note that this is largely copied from another post I made today but feel it bears repeating!