'Honestly don't think Bush & Co will "permit" a 2004 loss.

[Southsideirish]

If it looks like things aren't going his way he will pump up the huge Amen Chorus of Republican activists and they will insist that a Dem victory will destroy the country. They will invent some way to declare a state of national emergency if they have to.
I recall when Clinton won the first time and they were so apoplectic -he was booed everywhere he went and Limbaugh was chanting off his "days held hostage" mantra.
That would be nothing to what is ahead - look what they did in 2000 - that shows their tenacity and our wimpiness.
If the shoe were on the other foot and Bush had won the popular vote - he would still be in court fighting it every step of the way. What did we do - accepted the tainted verdict of the tainted Court and meekly crawled away.
I feel the days of democracy in this country ended then and will never return. The Republicans will never let the power slip through their fingers again and most of the sheeple in this country will somehow buy their argument without question, especially if they use national defense as the mainstay of their argument.

[JailForBush]

1. You may well be right. Here's an alternative:

LOCAL POLITICS.

I've long advocated a greater focus on local politics as the only sure way to take back America. If Bush steals the White House again, we're going to need the strongest local political bodies possible to weather the storm. And if a Democrat gets elected, we're still going to need strong local government to help undo Bush's damage.

I've run for the Seattle School Board twice and state office once. Yet I've NEVER been able to find ONE good candidate to network with; they're all corrupt operatives or blithering idiots. And 2004 is shaping up to be another repeat of politics as usual.

[SharonAnn]

2. We have one good one here but the rest are corrupt

operatives or blithering idiots. Some are both.

And we're not running a Democrat for the only county-wide office that's up for election this coming year.

Same-old, same-old. It's so disgusting.

[JailForBush]

3. Ha! I've challenged critics who think I'm too negative to name just ONE

elected in official who isn't corrupt. No one has EVER submitted a name.

[w4rma]

15. Sen. Russ Feingold and the late Sen. Paul Wellstone are two top notch

examples.

[Cleita]

5. Look what happened in California.

Did you ever believe Arnold would be
governor? This isn't local, I know, but state government is getting closer to the local issues here, and since local municipalities have to look to the state for funding and other things, I think we should start there. Some states have a rat's nest of incumbents and good old boys who have been stagnating legislation for decades. I think cleaning our the state governments would be a good start.

[w4rma]

14. IMHO, you'll have to learn to work with what you've got, JailForBush (n/t)

[DiverDave]

4. I've been thinking the same thing

The repukes cannot afford to lose.
They have broken so many laws, some will be looking at jail time.
The company's supporting the junta have broken laws too, they don't want to pay fines, or get the negative publicity that a Democratic win will bring.

We are screwed, they will do ANYTHING to win.

[jonoboy]

6. my fear..the most dishonest election ever

[Smokie]

7. You may be correct

To counter such a scenario, we will have to keep up the heat by telling everyone we know about this terrible threat to America.

There are a lot of people seething over what happened in 2000. Then, we did roll over, the next time there may very well be blood in the streets.

Keep up with the BBV issue and let's all resolve to make sure the election is as clean as we can make it.

If a State of Martial Law is declared... well that'll be a new one on us, but I think there will be a whole lot of folks really pissed if it is declared. All we can do about that now is keep up the heat and hope for the best. Methinks that the insiders in DC will see to it that Martial Law is a non-starter.

[wanderingbear]

8. Then I guess its civil war then.

[wingnut]

12. civil war?

Repugs have all the guns.

Well, most of them.

[wanderingbear]

13. LOL.. I dont need a gun..

[LibertyBe11e]

20. Repugs have all the guns.

NOT ALL!! hehehehehe

[drb]

9. I'm betting on MIHOP II, the sequel...

...as an excuse to declare martial law and "postpone" the elections.

But that will only happen if the BBV scenario has gone south on them - which I'm starting to think it has.

[LibertyBe11e]

21. I know this is a silly question, but humour me please...

What do BBV and and MIHOP mean?
thanx

[solinvictus]

10. Bushco and 2004

I really believe that the current regime means to retain power at any and all costs. Watch for some sort of new terrorist incident to happen in the coming year. With all the orange alerts, green alerts, mango alerts, etc flying about, they're trying to prepare us for something.

Martial law; an ugly term that could be right around the corner. Here's my advice; firearms, ammunition, and basic food staples are at some all time lows in price. Russian bolt action rifles can be had for less than $50 with a can of 440 rounds of ammunition for an additional $50. Canned food, especially nurtrient rich beans, typically run 3 or even 4 cans/$1 locally. Please, I hope we never need use them in self defense, but stock up on both while you can. The people who support Bushco are showing themselves to be spiteful, mean spirited control freaks who would probably love to have show trials and mass roundups a'la Josef Stalin. For the first time in my 15 years of voting, I believe that there's a real threat to the Republic and that threat is here, not on foreign soil.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Right Now The Dems Deserve To Lose

Sorry kids, but the truth. I've been trying to work with local groups and have run into "politics as usual"...old time "party operatives" who have low and medium level jobs in local government (not really interested in biting the hands that feed them). It's frustrating. My wife and I have stood ready with money, arms, legs and time...and except for telling us were we can mail the checks, we haven't heard much of anything else.

The only safeguards we had against Raygun was Democrat control of the House and you saw restraint on * when there was that slim one vote majority in the Senate. Without the house, the invasion will go on and more "de-reg", "tax breaks" and dismantling of the constitution will continue at a quick pace.

I've been waiting for well over a year for threads here on local races and efforts to develop a true grassroots that will turn the Democratic Party into a true majority party...and the way to do that is to control legislatures...which then generate candidates and so on. The GOOP knows this, they started working hard on the local levels in the Atwater days and it's paid off big anytime there's a close election (Democrats rarely win).

It's great to love your national candidate and bitch and moan about this regime, but unless there's an effort to spread the messages of Democratic values and our alternative to this repressive regime, next November could be a real disaster.

I'm now convinced that it's * election to win or lose...he's given us all the materials to help him lose, our job is to use it...but I don't see a lot of Democrats ready to do anything but the elbow grease to put the real clampers on the RW and prevent them from having any meaningful power for years to come. Think about it.

[markus]

19. So, who's your local District Chair?

The Democratic Party in a lot of locations is a weak network of a handful of individuals, who would be easily overwhelmed and replaced.

Imagine a world in which the corporate whores in our own party suddenly had to confront conventions at which their own endorsement (ability to put a D next to their name, tap into funds, etc.) was jeapordized without a change of policies.

Hell, the only Democrats we've added in Fargo, North Dakota have been in the non-partisan city and school board elections, and we just lost probably the most promising person I've met (newly elected to the school board) to a car crash.

You'd be surprised at what would happen if you could round up a dozen like-minded people for your precinct/district convention in the Spring.

[KharmaTrain]

22. Thanks...Change Has To Come

I'm in a major metro area...a suburban area that had been overwhelmingly Republican, but a lot of us "City Kids" (Democrats) have been moving into the area and up the economic and civic ladders. The problem is that many are in isolated pockets who only see the local GOP activities and nothing from the Democrats.

One major difficulty is that the parties in my area are completely overshadowed by the predominately Democratic areas in the city...where the money and votes are. For years there was a go-along, get-along situation and both parties have been slow to notice the changing demographics. For the GOP it's been disasterous overall as the party has lost it's strong grip on the burbs and thus has been all but flushed out on a statewide level.

Unfortunately on the local level there is virtually no party aparatus...and it's a shame since this is a district with a long suffering GOP Congress hack whose done little for this area but has never faced a serious, well-funded challenger.

A year ago I contacted several Democratic Party officials...both state and national...who assured me that there was a re-organization going on and that there was going to be a concerted effort in helping local candidates. One went on to say that since there wasn't a "strong" national candidate, the party had to focus on creating them on the local level...unfortunately the only time I hear from that person now is form letters with envelopes attached...I haven't gotten a reply to an email in months. It's frustrating.

Right now there are several House seats that could be contested that are being all but given up on, which bothers me a lot more than losing the executive since this is the best safety valve to bring an end to the corruption and maybe even turning things around.

I've spoken to others in this area about organizing, however, they are as cynical as I am in putting in the money and elbow-grease and get little support from the "party regulars" who are more concerned with their position and paychecks.

Good luck in your area and I hope you make a real difference next year. Please keep me posted on your activities.

Cheers and Happy New Years

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWatcher]

17. Careful Undertaker.....

Though your feelings of frustration are understandable, and would be warranted in such a worse case scenario, try to avoid such dangerous sentiments on a Messsage Board.....

Big Brother IS Watching.....

TheWatcher

[Q]

18. Bush* declared a 'state of national emergency' after 9-11...

...so that part is already a done deal.

- Don't be shy...call 2000 what it really was: a coup.