Please help (arguing with FReepers)

[Valarauko]

Any links to facts as to effectiveness of welfare and public education?

[Valarauko]

1. Anyone? (nt)

nt

[izzie]

2. Well on the education thing.

We became this super power on it, so that is one good point.I guess you would have to pull that out of your history books, and see the fight we had at the start of it.It was one of the reasons every one wanted to get into this country. Now on welfare, we have been slow on doing a lot with it. Churches used to do it and of course they could not do it very well so the govt. stepped in.All countries seem to have problems with this, look how big business has jumped into the hand out business and that seems to be world wide, Some one trying to take something for nothing and not when you really need it.Most of your GOP friends are taking from both but will swear they made it on their own. Strange way of thinking.

[Valarauko]

3. Erm, I live in Israel

I don't have lots of US history books, any links?

[izzie]

4. No but will look, try Dewey

John I think as he was big in this. Alot of public education was set up so the workers would be better workers. Early Americans needed to read because they had to read Bible, to be a member of their Churches.I think most of the welfare thinking came out of Germany. Bismark if I recall.Look under Masters in Sociology

[DiverDave]

5. Education

Is the magic ingredient.
Lower poverty rates, crime rates, higher productivity.
Lower welfare and social costs.
An educated workforce is higher paid, increasing tax revenues.
Lower domestic violence, better health, more kids living a better life.
Less drug and alcohol abuse.
And the big intangible: The unknown discovery's that could be.

If anyone says that education is not the cure for all these and more, suggest they get more education.

[hellbound-liberal]

6. You might try http://www.childrensdefense.org/

They're the organization that originated the phrase "leave no child behind" and work to actively support it, unlike "his fraudulency". There are sevral valuable links on that page as well.You might also try www.rethinkingschools.org and www.nea.org

[trotsky]

7. Public education system

is what launched the industrial revolution in this country. A large, reasonably educated population was ready & trained to mass-produce. It gave us a leg up on most other countries and really set the stage for over a century of American economic dominance.

[rasputin1952]

8. Israel?...Be careful over there...

Public education is the basis of every great nation these days. You cannot beat an educated public. Who would argue against being able to read, write, do calculations? Who would argue that only an "Elite" class of people are permitted to have a basic education?

Jefferson was the great push for Public Ed in this country, and it has made us stronger, and more willing to tackle anything that comes our way. There may well be problems to be dealt with, but is it wiser to have 'select' education?

Welfare/public assistance: Who could argue against a safety net? People lose jobs, people come down with debilitating diseases and cannot work. There is mental illness, for example, is it wrong to allow someone a small stipend to live on because they have difficulty in dealing with life?

Far from the RW view, few people in the US spend 'forever' on welfare. In fact...the absurdity of the public ed/welfare debate is; without education, there would be a HELL of a lot more people on public assistance!

What it comes down to is money. RWer's don't want to pay for ANYTHING! However, they want the benefits of society. Nothing makes me feel safer than a fireman that can't read, "Turn for pressure". But who needs a fire dept, my house isn't on fire? The neo-cons think they 'deserve' the benefits, they are just too damn cheap to pay for them.

Stay safe over there!

O8)

[Valarauko]

9. Thanks

I'm active-duty IDF.

[rasputin1952]

10. Go IDF !...

I've always supported Israel. I guess thqat has to do with growing up in NYC and having a bunch of Jewish, (and a host of other ethnic), friends.

Not to wax eloquent on this; but the first time I ever realized there were differences in people was when I was 5 yo, and the guy who owned the newstand down the street, had a tattoo from one of the camps. I asked my dad about this on the way home, (he fought in Europe), and got the low-down for the first time. I didn't even see differencves in Asians and blacks back then! It has been a long journey, but I have learned much over the years.

In any case, glad you're protecting your Homeland, just be careful; ands let's all pray the violence ceases and an accord can be met!

O8)