Holy Cow! Vice Admirals to view Uncovered: Truth About Iraq documentary

[many a good man]

I just had my retired Navy commander father-in-law over to watch the documentary Uncovered: The Truth About the Iraq War. It really struck a chord with him and now he wants to get a copy so he can watch it with two of his buddies who are retired Vice Admirals!

They're all Republicans who HATE Rumsfeld and don't like Bush* very much. My FIL was very impressed with it; especially with the credibility of the interviewees, the soundness of the case presented, and the total lack of sensationalism in the way it was presented.

He also discussed the devastating effect the truth will have on the morale of our troops. He said it puts their lives at risk when morale sinks because they don't think they are fighting for a noble or just cause. He thinks this is worst thing about it.

It makes me stop and think about the way we talk about the war.

How do we talk about the war without destroying the morale of our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters who are stuck over there? I'm so outraged by it all I want to scream, but at the same time I don't want to cause more harm. I hate this administration for putting us in this position...

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. The news is filtering to Iraq

read the letters posted by Moore, by the way, GOOOD JOB

My husband is about to retire, he is a USN Chief, and this is
unoficial, the armed forces are very divided about this, but
Rummy is not a favorite subject of talk and... we cannot stand
to watch Bush in this household...

He cannot wait to join me on the front lines of this war, when he finally is RETIRED...

Oh and have them share this with the retired community, we need to get them on our side, the national securty voter that is.

I intend to get that movie as soon as I am back in California, hmm

Might just order it and have it shipped to that adress

Imagine all the damage I can do if I take the portable DVD to univerity campus and other places for teach ins with that movie?

[velocity]

3. I have not talked to anybody that likes Rummy

and his ideas of closing bases in Germany and opening "single status" bases in Poland and other countries is really pissing some off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I have yet to talk to a rummy fan myself

for that matter I only know of one bush fan and that one is also
wavering, starting to waver

I think it is starting to dawn on people these boys are looting the country

[Postman]

12. USN Chief? ....was he ever on the USS Forrestal CV-59?

I was on her 1984-86. OS2.

God bless him, and you for that matter, for having the fortitude to stay in. I couldn't do it. Too much sea time in my rate. I wanted to be home with my family (not that your case is any different)....5 years sea duty, 2 years shore duty and so on.....no way I was doing that for 20 plus years.....

[benburch]

2. This time it hardly matters what we say.

How do we talk about the war without destroying the morale of our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters who are stuck over there? I'm so outraged by it all I want to scream, but at the same time I don't want to cause more harm. I hate this administration for putting us in this position...

In previous wars, troops got actual news from home. Now they only get what the administration wants them to hear. What we say here is not getting to them. However, their morale is falling anyway, based on what they are experiencing at the hands of Bush's war machine.

-Ben

[nostamj]

7. "actual news from home"

from what I've read, they get FAUX news.

all propaganda, all the time...

[arcane1]

10. they get OxyRush on AFR, too

what a way to "support" the troops :(

[drfemoe]

35. are you serious?

Are you saying our troops in Ira* can listen to Rush Pillbox? THAT is supposed to be a morale booster? This can't be .... ?

[T Bone]

24. The reenlistment rates speak volumes about their morale

or so it would seem ?

[LisaM]

4. And also, post-traumatic stress

if troops have high morale, only to find out the truth later, the effects can be devastating.

[Droopy]

6. You have to stand up for what's right

If we had our way then those troops over there in Iraq would be coming home a lot sooner than they would be otherwise.

I can see how the war becoming unpopular could hurt morale. But if it's an illegal and unjust action, they shouldn't feel good about what they are doing. I feel sorry for them because they are powerless to do anything about it if they feel the way I do.

[many a good man]

8. Well, I agree but...

it feels self-righteous to say I told you so and here's proof. How must it feel to be shot at and blown up every day and people back home say you're risking all this for something that's "illegal and unjustified"?

I think we have to move away from saying the war was wrong and instead put emphasis on the administration's duplicity. We have to show more concern for the men and women over there. Give them more support; show our support by vowing to remove these asses from power.

Its a noble cause to bring stability to that land regardless of the f'd up way we got there in the first place. We have to show them that our first priority is to bring self-determination and peace there and get out as soon as possible.

[RainDog]

14. Noble cause?

unfortunately, the idea of bringing stability to a place that you destablized doesn't quite make sense...and the fact that so many, generals, intelligence agents, ambassadors, all tried to warn the people of this country and testified before Congress about this same issue makes me wonder if any further involvement in Iraq is just face saving.

on top of this, the way in which Rumsfield ran the war made things ten times worse than they should have been.

And then Democrats in Congress simply back Bush instead of holding his feet to the flame.

All those familiar with the country said such an invasion would most likely result in civil war.

Bush and his gang will not allow Iraq to elect its own govt, and Iraqis do not support the Bush figurehead.

I find it hard to see a noble cause in the reality of U.S.'s overthrow of one of their former allies in order to install a new ally who does not represent the nation.

I find it hard to believe in the "noble cause" of Iraq when our national guard is over there, instead of protecting this nation.

I find it hard to see a "noble cause" in spending billions of dollars in Iraq to pay Halliburton and Bechtel for inadequate troop facilities while there are so many needs here, and an administration which could care less for the people of this nation.

I'm not one for "glorious causes" since such notions are too often disguises for less than noble motivations.

If we really care about establishing democracy, why aren't troops in Washington ousting Bush and his cabal, including the Supreme Court 5 from their offices because of treason?

[Terwilliger]

22. self-determination and peace through superior firepower

no thank you very much...everybody needs to know that America is a murderous imperilaist state bent on world domination...THATS what they need to know.

[leesa]

33. But the reality is that it is illegal and unjustified

How do you pretend otherwise? How do you get these people out of power unless you expose this very thing?

[qwlauren35]

36. Even though I don't completely agree,

I thank you for writing this. It helps me understand a certain perspective. Yes, it must be sheer hell to be in Iraq, seeing your buddies dying and hearing opinions that the war is wrong, illegal, unjustified. But perhaps it is the cynic in me that thinks that today's soldier is not necessarily the ignorant, pimply adolescent of Vietnam's draft, but more than likely a pragmatic risk-taker who knew that there was a slight chance of deployment to action that made no sense. The US sends soldiers to countless skirmishes abroad that only strategic geniuses understand our position in. The soldiers simply serve and follow orders, because it's the job they signed up to do, gawd help them.

This is just my opinion, but most people in "today's military" are there because they chose it as an opportunity to get paid, get benefits, see a bit of the world, and hopefully not get killed in the process.

As far as the soldiers in Iraq go, I think we owe it to them to point out that the Bush administration put them there under false pretenses, and they have the right to vote the f*ckers out of office if they wish to.

To me, anything less makes a mockery of their intelligence.

[RainDog]

46. recently met a kid going off to Iraq

..and he was, in fact, a pimply-faced kid.

His dad reported that after he got to Iraq, he couldn't be deployed yet because he required extensive dental surgery...

which was necessary because his family was too poor to provide the same care before he was in the military.

of course, he's just a grunt, not an officer.

I told the soldier that I wanted him and his fellow troops to know that so many of us support them and pray for their safe return, but have no love at all for Bush and Rumsfield, and think that the best thing that could happen to our soldiers is if those crooks and creeps were voted out of office.

The kid soldier said...all I know is that I hate government.

...I couldn't bear to tell him that his job and his identity at this time was as a member of the govt he claims to hate.

Unfortunately, so many in this country are ignorant, basically, about what is in their best interests, it can make you want to scream.

[madfloridian]

9. We don't have a choice but to talk about it.

If we don't talk about it, it will never end. They have made that clear.

If telling the truth destroys morale, then it was not that high anyway.

Read the letters from the soldiers at Michael Moore's website.

The movie was powerful. Our son was furious, and he is Republican. The rest of our kids are getting DVDs as soon as our order comes.

We can not let lies like that go unanswered.

[Terwilliger]

11. the one thing about Uncovered is its credibility

they use the administration's own words and have many diverse sources debunking almost every argument

[cthrumatrix]

48. see how compelling a "real media effort" can be....our media sold us out

[Smokie]

13. What is this Uncovered?

Someone might want to explain what exactly Uncovered is to those of us who are not in the know. Thanks ahead of time...

[falcon]

15. Where can I get a copy?

Please

[madfloridian]

16. Here, you can link to it from MoveOn.

http://www.moveon.org

We ordered one for each of our kids. We also ordered a couple for the neighbors.

[alfredo]

17. The harder the military tries to embargo the news, the more the

soldier seeks the news. I was on a base in the lower 40 of nowhere in particular, and we stayed up on the news. We were reading the raw news feed over TT until they shut off that avenue. We went to short wave radios and Ham Radio to get the news. We even had an underground book exchange. If a book or publication was banned, it became a hot item.

Our soldiers know the score, and I know they are torn. If they no longer trust the government, they will fight anyway to protect their fellow soldiers.

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. That's kind of encouraging.

Especially if these retired three-stars do something like forward it to some of their friends who are still on active duty, say, in Naval War Plans or something like that. If discontent starts to really spread among the officer corps, this imperial adventure is going to be in trouble.

My father was a Chief Petty Officer, and, although rather conservative, he's decided he doesn't like Bush at all and that almost anyone else would be an improvement...he has respect for Kerry and Clark, and the AWOL thing really disgusted him with Bush.

[Terwilliger]

19. have your father see this film

it really goes through all the points that the Bush misadministration floated out to make people want to go to war and debunks them all

[many a good man]

21. Spreading discontent

Supposedly one of these Vice Admirals stays in close contact with some active brass and has subtly indicated that this discontent is slowly simmering under the surface and already spreading. I have a feeling that a well-made, indisputable documentary like this is something some have been waiting for to kick it up to the next level.

My feeling, though, is that these guys don't want to be noisy about it. We have to acknowledge that despite their conservatism, a lot of the people serving in our intelligence agencies and armed forces are real patriots who respect the Constitution and care deeply about the principles this country was founded on. Even if we can't see it, I sense there is movement afoot...

[veracity]

20. Reminder...."Ucovered" DVD is available here......

Details and a preview of the film are available here:
http://tvnewslies.org/html/uncovered.html

Ships immediately...

[goforit]

23. I am so impressed!!!..Republicans need to know this is not a party issue!!

This is truely northing but a bunch of madmen's crimes against humanity.

AND WE MUST STOP IT ASAP!!!!!!

[katiemc]

25. Uncovered documentary

TORCHEANDPITCHFORKS,

Hi, I am one of the producers of Uncovered: the whole truth about the Iraq war. I just read your post about your retired Navy commander father-in-law seeing the film. Bravo.. I would like to offer him and his Vice Admiral friends complimentary copies of the movie to view and or pass on to others. Let me know how I can get you guys copies asap.

Thanks again.. I am glad you were inspired by the film.

Best,

Kate McArdle
Co Producer
Uncovered
[e-mail]

[proud patriot]

26. Welcome Underground katiemc

:hi:

[katiemc]

27. welcome

Well howdy:)

Thanks for the welcome. I dont seem to be able to email anyone the first guy who started this string to get him the film???

Best,
Kate

[veracity]

28. TvNewsLies gives the DVD for a donation...

I know that TVNL ordered the film from your pepople.....and it's being given away for a donation to the site. I know the DVD's are going like hotcakes. People have asked if they're availabe in tape format? Seems that not everyone has a DVD player yet.

DVD is at:
http://tvnewslies.org/html/uncovered.html

[Cooley Hurd]

37. Hi Kate. I would like to see more copies of it in the P2P's

I got my copy via Kazaa, but there are so few copies available on the Peer-to-Peer networks (plus, my copy was encoded in Xvid, which requires looking for add'l codecs to play it). Is there anyone at MoveOn that can facilitate inundating the P2P's with it, and making copies available that don't require add'l codecs to play it? Using P2P's is a great conduit to get this excellent documentary to the masses.

Also, thank you and congratulations on such a fine documentary!!

<on edit - for those who want to use Kazaa to find copies of "Uncovered", best to use the search string "uncovered, iraq" instead of just "uncovered" or "uncovered, bush" since those two search strings came up with many pornographic results... :o

[truthspeaker]

45. someone with the DVD should be able to rip it to DivX or whatever

And I have server space I can host it on. I would just need written permission from the copyright holders to do so.

[e-mail]

[not systems]

29. Thanks for your great work.

I have a copy from move on and have been passing it around.

Thanks.

[veracity]

30. Super idea...

Sharing copies with everyone you know is the way to go. MoveOn held "Uncovered" gatherings all over the country earlier this month. I just hope we're not only preaching to the choir. The shame is that the media will not air this film. Duh!

[many a good man]

34. You're welcom

I just sent you a DU email, kate

[info being]

31. Truth is more important than morale

Knowing the truth about our economic system destroys my morale at work, too, but that doesn't mean I want to shelter myself from truth. Eventually you learn to live with it.

[tom_paine]

32. There is no good answer to this question

For DECADES, the Democrats have followed this policy of criticizing with restraint and considering the larger issues, all the while Busheviks cared NOTHING about ANYTHING except WINNING.

Criticize Clinton over Kosovo? OK.
Pull FBI agents from Counter Terrorism to go fishing in the Clintons' underwear drawers? Sure, provided the case is a politically-motivated RICO-violating hatchet job against an Imperial Family Enemy!

Etc. Etc.

The problem is, there is no way to varnish the ugly truth of the Busheviks and their many odious lies told. There is no way to confront Totalitarian Monsters like the Imperial Family of Amerika except head-on.

The morale of our soldiers will suffer, it's true, but so secondary (unfortunately) to restoring the Old Republic and saving it from Imperial Tyranny.

[drfemoe]

38. Wow . What a different perspective

I always wonder why 'liberals' get slapped with charges of lowering the morale of the troops . ex: Hillary's trip during the holidays (where she expressed some compassion imo).

All the while we are supposed to believe that presbot showing up with a plastic turkey for a one hour photo op sends the morale soaring. :wtf: His wild eyed scheming (or whatever is in that movie - I'm not familiar with it) put their lives at HIGH risk, but WE are supposed to worry about hurting their feelings by telling them the TRUTH?

Stunned is almost a permanent state of mind for me at this stage.

I've never heard the official rationale until this thread:
He also discussed the devastating effect the truth will have on the morale of our troops. He said it puts their lives at risk when morale sinks because they don't think they are fighting for a noble or just cause.

Um. Some of the soldiers will always view a 'noble cause' due to their personal belief systems. I know a few. I would never do anything on a personal level to try to dissuade them. I am not in the business of changing people's belief systems. They sure aren't going to change mine.

But I can't figure out how knowing the truth, if someone accepts it as such, would make one more likely to be a war casualty. Survival itself is a very noble cause for most people. In some ways it would seem there might be the opposite effect, even if one is pissed off about the circumstances (or lies), but determined to survive.

This is probably a 'military' thing, which is I don't fully understand... Maybe it's even a testosterone thing (no gender bias intended). I wonder about the true motive for high 'morale'.

I can see where low morale might lead to desertions, but evidently political races can also cause awol. Manipulating emotions can have the intended outcome of a united fighting force; but so far we have a volunteer military. Does one need to surrender their minds and emotions in order to serve their country? I think the answer is probably, yes, in practice. Is there any other way?

[many a good man]

40. Its a truism that its a noble thing is to sacrifice yourselves for others

So it follows the noblest thing of all is to risk the ultimate sacrifice, your life, for others. For your country.

This is where we get the concept of the warrior as someone noble. In times past, when acting in defense of your family, tribe, or nation, the warrior was respected above all others in every society. Few societies or cultures could have survived to this day without the sacrifice of warriors at some time in the past. You can't call all war unjust or immoral when done in self-defense.

I think a lot of people who join the military do so in part out of this sense of duty, out of a calling in the spirit of protecting and defending home. We pervert this sense of duty and honor when we engage in an unjust immoral war based on false pretenses. Our soldiers are not guilty of wrongdoing, our government is. Because our government is a democracy, we all share the blame.

I'm not saying we should not be truthful; I'm looking for a way to express our opposition in a way that condemns the administration without casting aspersions on our volunteer soldiers. The psychological damage they incur when realizing the truth behind this misadventure will affect different people in different ways. For many, the effect may weaken their will to survive. You or I can't know because we haven't been through it. I know of Vietnam vets who came to hate themselves because of what they were doing and committed suicide because of it.

I don't know what the answer is. I had hopes that the end of the cold war would stop giving our leaders incentives to commit crimes around the world. I see now that some want to use the "war on terror" to continue down the same path. The million plus soldiers and their families should not hold us in contempt, but they will if we are sloppy or unfeeling in our language and in our actions. That's all I'm trying to say.

[ThomWV]

39. Has It Been On TV?

Has, or will, this be shown on TV?

By the way, I just hate it when someone references a program or show like this and then doen't say where they saw it or if they know if it will be repeated. What channel, what station, what time?

Thom

[many a good man]

41. Sorry, I thought everyone has heard of this by now

Its a documentary called "Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War." It was funded by MoveOn and ACT and distributed free. There are a few liberal web sites that will ship it to you with a donation of about 15 bucks. You can also see a preview and order it direct from the official website: http://www.truthuncovered.com/

Its a very well made documentary detailing the way this administration "cooked" the intelligence leading up to the war. It interviews a score of highly credible professionals from the CIA, State department, Pentagon and other agencies. They tell of what intelligence was known and how it was mis-portrayed in the rush to war. They make a strong case that war was preconceived and justified by using intelligence that was know to be inconclusive or wrong. There's also little piece on the outing of Valerie Plame.

By all means get it and share it with your friends. I don't think anyone can watch it and not come away convinced that the American people have been "had."

[mmonk]

42. Got my copy today

in the mail. Haven't had time to view it yet.

[SharonAnn]

43. Me too. Got it in the mail today.

Hope I get to see it soon.

[dusty64]

44. Cool story.

:kick:

[Caution]

47. Truth Uncovered

Really is a very well done documentary and very powerful. Just ordered a copy for my parents. If you havent seen it yet make a point to order a copy and see it. Then make a point of sharing it with friends, colleagues and relatives.