Shocking pieces of the PATRIOT II Act Bush signed

[Brian_Expat]

Some snippet from the AP that made my eyes bug out (you can read the full article here, it's 1/2 way down the page): http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/94248.php

President Bush has signed legislation making it easier for FBI agents investigating terrorism to demand financial records from casinos, car dealerships, and other businesses.

The changes were included in a bill authorizing 2004 intelligence programs. Most of the details of the bill are secret, including the total cost of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. That would be slightly more than Bush had requested.

That's right ladies and gentlemen. You could have your financial records scanned through, be detained and have other stuff done to you under a "secret law" that is unpublished and unavailable to you. How do you challenge a law in court, if it's secret? :scared:

In other provisions, the bill:

Requires the CIA director to prepare a report as soon as possible on what intelligence agencies have learned from their experiences in Iraq.

Creates a Treasury Department office to work with intelligence agencies on fighting terrorist financing.

Creates pilot programs to share raw data between agencies.

Authorizes agencies to continue research on computerized terrorism surveillance suspended by the Pentagon.

Remember John Poindexter and "Total Information Access?" Yep, that last point brings TIA back from the dead as part of a SECRET BILL that you have no access to, but which is presently law!

Still convinced that it's OK to tear down fellow Democratic candidates (well, except for Joe Lieberman, who was a CO-SPONSOR of this horrible bill)? :scared:

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Actually only 9 congresstrons voted no, voice vote in senate

[Brian_Expat]

3. Actually. . .

1/3 of the House voted no, including 15 GOPers.

Lee and Kucinich proposed amendments to strip out the language "increasing" the PATRIOT Act but failed.

Lots of pink tutu Democrats voted for this legislation. :(

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. Do you have a link? I had a link for the 9 but is on another box

thanks

[Pegleg Thd]

2. The bill was drawn up by

psychopaths and signed by a coke-nosed idiot.. we are the ones who will be screwed.

[Smokie]

5. Let's hope the Courts get ahead of this

The courts just last week rebuked the emperor on detaining suspects without trial. I wish they would now go to the heart of the matter and declare that this Whitehouse is NOT upholding the constitution.

Does anyone else find it odd that hardly any terrorists have been brought to trial? That no financial institutions of any size have had their funds siezed or otherwise been hammered? Seems as if there really are no terrorists or financers thereof. Or is the lack of suspects due to utter incompetence by the Justice department?

As far as the passing of this law goes.... it sickens me how so many legislators let this anti-constitutional action get put into the law books. Let's hope the courts do not alow it to stand.

[Walt Starr]

7. The election will be over before the courts get to this

By then it could be too fucking late.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Do you still believe we'll have elections in 2004?

[Walt Starr]

10. We'll have the "appearance" of elections in 2004

Put most of the public to sleep while they quietly keep control.

I'm guessing the sellout Pink TuTu Dems have been guaranteed they get to keep their jobs.

[Smokie]

12. Courts are moving slow

But maybe, just maybe, one Judge who is hip to this shit will figure like we do that waiting around isn't gonna cut it, and he/she files some motion to start an impeachment. Ya know there has to be some insiders working on a way to save our country. If there ain't then we are truly in a world of shit. We just can't be the only ones who are paying attention....

[Oilwellian]

9. Remember when....

India exposed the fact that the head of Pakistan's ISI, General Ahmed, sent Atta $100 grand 3 weeks before 911? Instead of having Ahmed arrested and tried for aiding and abetting the head terrorist that attacked us, they allowed him to quietly resign. It's not incompetence, it's complicity.

[Smokie]

11. Yeah, I remember

That's just it in a nutshell ain't it? There was a guy who openly collaborated with the bad guys and they let him slide. Even the Saudi's got a free ride. Course all this is based on the premise that 19 cave dwellers actually did the deed.

When in hell are the good guys who are left at CIA gonna put the screws to this crap? It's either gonna be them or the Courts who save our asses. Do ya think any of them are taking notice?

[proud patriot]

18. Yes I believe we have some people

who are staying at their jobs for this very reason .

Keep the Faith

Patriots on all sides will unite behind the Constitution
just as we did 227 years ago .

[MercutioATC]

6. What really scares ME about Patriot II:

I don't have a copy in front of me, but I downloaded a draft a few months ago. In that draft, it stated that you did not have to KNOWINGLY aid terrorists to be found guilty of aiding terrorists. Furthermore, anybody found guilty of aiding terrorists was automatically assumed to have renounced their U.S. citizenship, and the rights that accompany it.

Imagine for a moment:

You donate money to an organization that provides medicine and food to starving children. Unbeknownst to you, some of that money is given to children in Lebanon or some other country through an organization that is classified as a "terrorist organization" by our government. Not only have you just "aided terrorists", but in doing so, you've renounced your U.S. citizenship and have no rights under the law.

Scary, no?

[Solon]

13. Even Scarier...

Imagine the Bush Administration labeling the opposition to his government as aiding terrorists. What's to stop the government from labeling DU as a terrorist-aiding organization, and covertly writing up arrest warrents for all the people on the board. It is not inconcievable, particularly for us, as this administration has contempt for the free speech rights of U.S. citizens who oppose him.

[Brian_Expat]

14. Yikes

Imagine the Bush Administration labeling the opposition to his government as aiding terrorists

That's the day he starts the civil war -- and I fear what will happen when the military cracks up over it. There are a lot of consciencious people in high places who despise what Bush stands for -- if he puts his apparatus in action in the fashion you suggest, I suspect he'll be meeting some of them.

[Solon]

16. Part of the problem is this...

Up to 10% of the population will wholeheartedly agree with him on said position, i.e. the freepers. I would say that another 25% mostly republicans would not protest too loudly. Then the muddled up middle, who honestly wouldn't give a crap. They represent the largest minority in this country, about 30%. The remaining 35% would be divided up between the "pragmatics democrats" they would not openly oppose the administration. That leaves us, the remaining 10%. I would not imagine a civil war like the one the in 1860's, more like Nicaragua of the 1980's, and I for one would hate for such a civil war to take place. It would more resemble a police action by the government against guerrillas that oppose American Ideals, or some such propaganda from Bushco. This lines would not be drawn, and little or no support would come in for a violent reaction to Bush administration actions.

[DuctapeFatwa]

22. I regret to say that that would not start the civil war

People who post on this board are a minority of a minority of a minority, and as the regime's "Homeland Security operations" proceed, you will see about the same level of outrage as you saw the other day when they did their "pre-emptive arrest" sweep in California.

Remember CNN reported it, and then stopped reporting it - do you think those people are free now? Do you think they will be?

Do you expect that when you and your family are seized, that the outcry will be louder?

[young_at_heart]

15. I would have laughed at this a few years ago

Now I find myself "shaking in my boots" at what is being done almost behind our backs. This is not the country I have known for 64 years.......I want my country back!

In my city (Asheville) several people were thrown in jail before the war for protesting in the city center (they were a nuisance, was the charge I believe)......they were just standing there.

[maggrwaggr]

17. thanks. I'll sleep well tonight.

because I know you're right.

See ya at Gitmo, guys!

[Walt Starr]

19. Scariest bit yet

John Titor said America would forget it's constitution:

www.johntitor.com

What freaks me out the most is that it's all coming down like he said it would. I never bought this story, but, ya know...

[IMayBeWrongBut]

20. Notably his first postings are about the time the

2000 elections went bad. After witnessing that A good guess would be that the country would be about to rip apart by the next election. In a sense it could have been what inspired the cautionary tale of doom.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Then they should start with the crew in the WH

they have been aiding the terrorists for decades and they know exactly what they are doing.

When W, Rummie and Myers all sat on their hands on the morning on 9-11 until after the Pentagon was hit is proof that they were aiding the terrorists.