What are your non-DUish political beliefs?

[WillyBrandt]

On most issues, we know where the mass of DUers stand. Which issues are you out of the DU norm on? They needn't be right-wing: they can be centrist (DLCish), or even radical in a leftward way.

Here are mine:

1. I'm very opposed to bilingual education. I don't like those English-only people or anything, I just think bilingual education does kids a deep disservice. Nothing is more important for immigrant kids' futures--in every facet--than learning English, and this bilingual education is actually an impedement towards this.

2. I'm pro free-trade. I think NAFTA and the WTO are good ideas. If you've read Krugman's writings on free trades, I'm basically agreeing with him and most economic orthodoxy on it. I'm also pro-union; and, yes, the two are often deeply in conflict, so it's not the most consistent set of positions.

[sexycool]

1. I believe in reining in the power of unions

[JanMichael]

3. Bwah! Those big evil unions are just a horror, eh?

Reign them in! No Collective Bargaining! No Right to Strike! Lower Wages for All!

Gawd Bless Amerika!

[sexycool]

12. They do many, many good things

I have belonged to three powerful ones. I was a shop steward in one of them.

Advancement in union shops is not based on merit, it is based on seniority in the union. That, I don't like.

I think there can always be improvement in any organization, Left or Right wing.

[JanMichael]

20. "Reigning in the power of" and "Reforming your own"...

Are two totally different concepts.
What you said in your first post was a often repeated anti-Union talking point, the second was perfectly reasonable.

I'd like to reign in the power of major corporations, ie. Make them Democratic and Accountable for their actions. Not just a few. All of them.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. You got to be a shop stewart because of your seniority?

I was a foreman on a major constuction project(100 million)with less than one year in the union.

Stop spreading RightWing/Corporate talking points, please!

[sexycool]

42. No you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about

I got the job of shop steward because the others were afraid to take it.

Stop spreading any knee jerk talking points.

[LincolnMcGrath]

44. I haven`t spred anyhting.

I do know UNIONS. Been a stewart, delegate, and negotiated contracts.

[LincolnMcGrath]

45. How could you be a stewart

If everything is based on senority?

[sexycool]

47. Advancement is based on seniority

Not union office holding, but you knew that.

[LincolnMcGrath]

50. So......

Putting down the tools and listening to greivences is not a move up?

[durutti]

28. What power?

Unions today have little influence on political life in America. We're indoctrinated to believe that we have "big labor" and "big business", and that the two forces balance each other out. This is, of course, ridiculous -- big business is far more powerful than labor, and always has been.

In 2000, for example, business PACs have 14 times as much to candidates as labor PACs.

The decline of the power of the labor movement is one of the main culprits behind the decline in real wages since 1973.

[LincolnMcGrath]

29. I appreciate that post

Unions are forced to jump thru hoops that no other group, business or club ever has to.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

87. We're on the opposite side then

I want more power to the unions and the workers. Who is your candidate? I want to make sure to vote for someone else.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. I hate guns and hunting and anything having to do with violence

Which, I'm not sure is a minority position here, but I do know there are a lot of pro-gun and pro-hunting people here. I just can't understand why they're here. :D

[WillyBrandt]

6. I'm very anti-gun, too....

It's surprising how many gun nuts are on DU. I just don't get it.

[11 Bravo]

53. Owning a gun and knowing how to use it

doesn't make one a gun nut.

[drdigi420]

97. owning a gun doenst make you a hunter either

i dont hunt, i think its boring

but i do own a gun, for my own safety

i hope i'll never have to shoot it outside the range

but all our kids know how to shoot a gun and know what it does

they respect it and understand

if you can absolutely guarantee that NOBODY else has a gun, you can get rid of mine, but since that is impossible, you wont get mine

does that mean i dont support regulation and licensing? no
registering guns is a good idea
banning them is a bad idea
it would give criminals one more monopoly to add to drugs, prostitution, gambling, and other victimless activities that should be legal

OMG, im not left or right on this issue! we have found the grey area!

[CalebHayes]

110. "but all our kids know how to shoot a gun and know what it does"...

Thats what they said about the kids at Columbine.

[CalebHayes]

107. Why though? Why own a gun? What good does it do?

[slackmaster]

134. Many reasons

Amusement
Competitive shooting
Financial investment
Historical interest
Self-defense
Hunting
Varmint control

[Redneck Socialist]

22. Because being a hunter and a gun owner...

...doesn't disqualify you from being a Democrat.

[THUNDER HANDS]

55. of course, but neither does being pro-life

But I'd still find it odd to find more than one pro-life person on DU.

[Redneck Socialist]

58. That's the beauty of this site.

There is a wide range of views and positions all unified by our dislike of bushCo.

[Jane Roe]

82. Here's where we soften that wedge . . .

Some DUers believe in regulating abortion through one or more of the following ways:

informed consent law,

parental notification law,

adoption availibility information law and

restriction of discretionary (that is, non-health-related) 3d trimester abortions.

If support for these kinds of regulations makes one "pro-life" in your opinion, then there is more than one pro-lifer on DU. I prefer the term "pro-responsible-choice" for the type of DUers described above.

[Isome]

86. discretionary (that is, non-health-related) 3d trimester abortions

Referring to it as a "discretionary" and "non-health-related" is not just inaccurate, it's an absolute falsehood. By the third trimester, no one makes that decision ARBITRARILY, or for funsies... not the physician and especially not the patient. At that point in a pregnancy, any suggestion of ending the pregnancy is ALWAYS because of health-related issues.

[Jane Roe]

90. yes, and

1. those are some of the important reasons most states regulate third trimester abortions;

and

2. those are some of the important reasons that some DUers support government regulation of 3d trimester abortions (the government regulates the practice of all medicine -- precisely because so much is at generally stake in medical practice);

and

3. The Roe v. Wade decision says that it is even permissible to consider the interests of third trimester fetuses in regulating abortion (although health and life of the pregnant woman must be appropriately accounted for even in the 3d trimester).

but

4. some (most?) DUers would still maintain that *any* regulation of third trimester abortion is wrong. Regulation of third trimester abortion has been an issue that has split DU for at least a while now. All I am trying to say is that the "one pro-lifer" comment made above may or may not be correct, depending on how you define "prolifer." If Justice Blackmun is considered to be a pro-lifer, then, yes, there is more than one pro-lifer here on DU.

[liberalpress]

122. Here's the problem with pro-life, pro choice arguments..

..first, I'm a man so I have no business commenting on it one way or another.

second...why is it even a political debate, It should be between a woman, her doctor and her :higher power."

fianlly... reversing Roe v Wade will NOT stop abortions. It will only drive them underground, and make them much less safe, and taking the lives of more women.

...but since only Democrats get abortions, there will be fewer of us, and that is what Repubs want, which is why they want to repeal Roe V Wade.

[loudsue]

99. Quit calling it "Pro-Life"!! It's called "Anti-abortion" or "anti-choice"

Pro-choice people are NOT pro-abortion...they're in favor of the potential mother deciding what to do within the domain of her own body.

EEEEEKKKKKKKK!!!!

[MysticMind]

124. oh so I guess

You don't really support child abuse if you simply believe a parent should be allowed the choice whether or not to whip their children with belts in the domain of their home.

[loudsue]

132. Child abuse isn't the "domain" of her own body....

You should know better than to try that kind of twisted crap.

[ldoolin]

135. Regarding anti-hunting people...

I see it just the opposite.

Most people, including most liberals, eat meat and use animal products (i.e. leather), so why would one expect that a large number of liberals not also be pro-hunting or at least neutral toward it?

Liberals are supposed to represent working class and middle class people and are generally pro-union, a lot of whom hunt and fish, so
a lot of pro-hunting liberals wouldn't be unexpected.

People with strong animal rights beliefs I can respect, so long as they understand that it's a personal choice, and not something that they should expect all liberals to share. How it ever became associated with liberalism in general is a mystery.

Regarding the pro-gun thing, a lot of us understand that there is an inherent right to self-defense that is as important as the rights to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of (and from) religion, and the right to vote. The importance of the right to self-defense may become clearer if the right wing nuts follow through on their frequent threats to "cleanse" the country of liberals or start a second civil war. Too, a lot of us understand that the federal gun laws as currently written are racist and discriminatory against mainly people of color. They are just as abhorrent for that reason as laws which restrict the right to vote. Not liking guns on a personal level, again, I can understand, but even those who don't personally like guns should at least make an effort to understand the civil liberties and civil rights implications of the issue.

[corporatewhore]

138. if guns are outlawed only outlaws will accidently shoot their families!!

[Intelsucks]

4. Is this a Freeper booby trap?

:D

[evil_orange_cat]

5. I am for 100% legalization of all substances...

and the Democratic Party hardly stands for that... even if most liberals do (or at the very least support legalization of marijuana).

[Woodstock]

74. Even from a practical standpoint, legalization of some drugs

would make sense, particularly marijuana. I hardly think people would rush to take them if they haven't already. And it would instantly save a lot of money on enforcement, prisons, etc.

[JanMichael]

7. I guess it's ok to get rid of biligual ed if all of our manufacturing jobs

are shipped to China. Wait...Are there Chinese bilingual edjimication classes in public schools? I thought that it was just those damned folks from south of the Rio Grande, er, Orlando.

[WillyBrandt]

18. Yep, I'm an anti-Hispanic Hispanic

Who hates the union that gave him his college scholarship.

Talking about missing the point of a thread... Jeez.

[JanMichael]

23. Missing the point? Nope. It doesn't matter which thread one posts...

...an idea on. If someone takes issue with it it's fair game. Personally I thought you were baiting the rwingers.

Also I was just pointing out the wild ironic relationships between moderately popular ideas, like tossing bilingual education, and "market" forces that are turning them on their head. Why come to America if the jobs you were looking for are at home...But wait they've moved from the US to Mexico to China...

BTW- I didn't intend to label you a racist.

[blondeatlast]

60. Generally, that's what they want to ban.

The same types who here people speaking Spanish in public and swear they are the ones being talked about.

I believe strongly in bilingual education. It's too bad more Anglos don't have the benefit of it (as in learning another language besides English)>

[SharonAnn]

126. Actually, I kind of enjoy being in public and hearing Spanish

spoken and while the conservation continues (and they think none of the "Gringos" can understand them) I get to overhear some good stuff. One time, when a Hispanic young man made some disgusting comments to and about a young woman, my husband stopped him and upbraided him in a most gentlemanly Spanish fashion. You should've seen the expression on that young man's face! It was priceless.

My husband and I are both fluent in Spanish. And, since he went to grade school in Mexico and Cuba and then high school in Chile, he understand a lot of the dialects and colloquialisms of those areas.

[HereSince1628]

8. Abortion is homicide and it's still OK

I KNOW that will piss some people off because strong rhetoric is scary...but it follows from my sense that embryos are still Homo sapiens, and that life doesn't begin sometime after conception...it began many hundreds of million years ago and has been passed along ever since.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumpy]

15. Abortion is a ghastly thing

and best left to the conscience of the one who chooses abortion.

[ima_sinnic]

19. Abortion is a ghastly thing

and best done in a sanitary, legal facility by a doctor, with proper counseling and follow-up--rather than with a coat hanger.

[HereSince1628]

21. This one fits me

[sexycool]

32. An abortion is an unfortunate event

A very grim thing.

[Crowdance]

31. You're position's fine....

....so long as it's your own personal choice ruled by your feelings. Insisting on being able to make that decision for others based on your feelings is where you'd be in the wrong.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. I might agree with you when it's in the third trimester...

But I don't believe that your rights begin and conception and I sure as hell don't believe that an embryo deserves rights.

[MJP]

39. I am Pro-Life and Pro-Choice

I'm against abortion. But most people that are anti-choice say they are for religious reasons. They want to legislate religion. You just can't do that.

[sexycool]

41. It doesn't give you any pause?

[leftofthedial]

9. I advocate the death penalty

for all neocons

after a fair trial for treason of course.

[evil_orange_cat]

11. I'm for the death penalty in principle... but think it is applied unfairly

plus, I think there should be a moratorium in order to reform the justice system...

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Pro death penalty but once we are ABSOLUTELY sure...

That the person is guilty.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

56. I oppose both.....

the death penalty and abortion.

While there are brutal murderers out their, the death penalty has NOT BEEN a deterant. Also, I could NOT imagine myself signing a death warrant or removing an innocent baby from the womb. Murder is a horrible thing! As civilized people we should work against these archaic practices!

[leftofthedial]

51. to be clear, I oppose the death penalty

except for neocons

after a fair trial for treason of course

[theoceansnerves]

10. i am very very pro animal rights

i've noticed most people here don't give a damn about other species. this also correlates to me being fairly anti-gun and very anti-hunting, which was already mentioned in another reply.

[dawn]

63. Same here! Very pro-animal rights.

I do notice that not many give too much thought to other species.

I'm also pro gun control and anti-hunting.

[Woodstock]

75. I'm really big on animal rights, you are not alone

It just never comes up much.

I'll pass on my usual Humane Society link on factory farms - even if one person reads it, maybe they will think (scroll on down)...

http://www.hsus.org/ace/11505

If one makes the choice to eat animals or their milk or eggs, that's their choice, but treating the animal humanely is a must. It's BEYOND CRUEL what goes on... and most people haven't the slightest idea it is happening.

[ldoolin]

136. Factory farming

My views on hunting, meat, and guns were already posted above (pro-choice in all three cases - and have no interest in adopting a vegan diet), but factory farming is one thing I *do* agree with animal rights people on. I go out of my way to buy free-range eggs and chicken and organic milk for that reason.

[curse10]

105. me too

don't say it too loud though- you will get flamed :-)

[CalebHayes]

114. Me too!

[lumpy]

14. I understand your stance on bi-ligualism

and of course it is necessary that immigrants learn English, which most do, by the way. I have always believed that languages other than English should be taught in the lower grades for the benefit of understanding and communication. Bush is a fine example for the necessity of having the power of communication on hand. He certainly flunked grade school English..

[WillyBrandt]

17. It's bilingual education, not bilingualism

Just to be clear... I'm against bilingual education (that is, teaching Math in Spanish, Vietnamese, whatever) not out of any sense of nativism. On the contrary; as the son of immigrants, I detest those English-only morons, the folks who want to make English the official language, etc.

From my own experiences trying to learn other languages, I just think it's patently bad. It's better to throw the kids into an English-speaking world: they'll learn quicker that way. And if they don't learn English as quickly and as well as they can, it will likely hurt them in many ways--in their future education, socially, job prospects, becoming a politically aware citizen, etc.

[lumpy]

24. Thanks Willy, I'll tack on an ism if I like.

Unfortunately this is not an English speaking world. Just ask any Frenchman. The many immigrants I have worked with have shown extreme adaptibility to learning the English language so what is the problem?
Don't you agree that knowledge of foreign languages might be helpful in understanding and communication. Learning a foreign language has been very helpful for Americans acquiring a job in government and corporations dealing with foreign nations. I'm sure you would agree that learning a second (or 3rd) language at an early age would broaden a child's education and help to create an interest of foreign nations.

[Indiana_Dem]

16. I'm on different sides on different issues

I am pro-choice
I am pro-gun
I am a fiscal conservative concerning the national debt
I am for civil rights for all human beings
I am for separation of church and state
I am not sure about the death penalty,some immigration laws
I am against NAFTA and WTO
I am pro-environment
I am pro-union in the sense that unions don't become monopolies like corporations and do nothing for the members.
I am for welfare such as education, childcare
I am not sure about healthcare yet
I am anti Patriot Act
I am definitely against corporate welfare
I am anti-war unless it will be fought on our own soil in defense

So this is definitely a mix of ideas. Some of my personal beliefs don't reflect in my political beliefs because I advocate true freedom to choose.

[durutti]

25. Here are mine...

1. I believe that progressives should abandon the Democratic Party.

2. I believe that Al Gore is responsible for his own loss in 2000.

3. I believe that social reforms shouldn't be seen as an end in themselves; rather, we should ultimately seek a revolutionary change.

[LincolnMcGrath]

27. My father was forced to learn LATIN

Good lord! Two languages!
Bilingual teachers need to be able to comunicate with 5-6 year imigrant/students. How is this an impedement?

[sweetheart]

81. multilingual is great

the earlier kids learn other languages the better. My partner speaks 5 languages fluently, and knows latin and a fair amount of greek as the basis of most european languages including english.

I wish, as a young child, i had been exposed to chinese, sanskrit, german, french and english all at once.

The different cultural world's represented by the languages would have enriched my education beyond measure.

[teach1st]

30. I agree with Pat Buchanan on....

I agree with Pat Buchanan on many of his points about immigration. (Or maybe I've just been unduly skeered by all the terribolism talk.)

I am for some sort of legalization for most drugs (though I'm not sure if total legalization is helpful in the cases of coke and crank).

[Hippo_Tron]

33. I like the concept of free trade but corporations are run by...

Such ass-holes that it's really hard to be for something that lets them do a lot more of what they want. As far as bilingual education goes I know a few people who did it and they didn't seem to have problems in English. Basically I don't think people should be telling schools what to teach other peoples' children.

[sleipnir]

35. I'm against giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. I'm against it because I think we need immigration reform...

Either we let people into the country and treat them like citizens or we send them back to the countries that we came from. No more of this letting them stay in the country so that we can exploit them.

[RichardRay]

38. Free trade and conspiracies

I don't think NAFTA and WTO are working effectively in the direction of true free trade - there are political motivations overriding the economics that need to be curbed. OTOH, I don't care to get stampeded into the 'free trade is facism' camp, either.

I also don't find some of the more conspiracy oriented folks here very believeable. I understand peoples' desire to find a bad guy (or guys) to blame for stuff, but I basically see the RW as just another bunch of bozo's on the bus, not as some master criminals who can cause earthquakes in Iran.

[durutti]

54. "Free trade"? Bah, newspeak...

There's nothing free about it. Call it neoliberalism like the rest of the world.

[MJP]

40. An another thing

I don't like Victoria's Secret. I mean...I LIKE Victoria's Secret. But, I don't like Victoria's Secret.

I don't think you should legislate morality, but, come on, this is soft porn here!

[LincolnMcGrath]

43. Oy Vey! Soft Porn?

Tear down the Sistine Chapel! I is dispicable!

[CalebHayes]

113. And? Big Deal! "Soft porn"... Who cares?

[Imajika]

46. Oh I have lots of non-DUish beliefs

First, let me say I agree with both of yours. I don't believe bilingual education is good at all, and I basically believe that Clinton had it mostly right on free trade. I am pro-Union and recognize that without them, business would stomp all over workers - however as with everything else, moderation is the key. I don't want to see Unions become to powerful, nor do I wish to see them so weak they can't protect workers. As of now, Unions have been diminished too much and need to be encouraged to grow with more labor friendly legislation (which by the way is one of the things I like about Gephardt).

Here are a couple of my primary non-DUish beliefs -

1) BBV is mostly a bunch of hooey. Yes, there should be audit trails and a careful eye on the electronic voting machines. That said, this nonsense about the Republicans stealing elections through black box voting in just horsemanure. There is no evidence of it whatsoever, and it is rather sad seeing so many on the left attributing Democratic losses on voting machines instead of addressing our real problems.

2) I oppose almost all moral laws. I don't really quite know where that puts me on DU. I think drugs, gambling and prostitution should all be decriminalized. Moral laws only create new categories of criminals, and do nothing to actually address the underlying social concerns.

3) Primaries are always contentious. This is not unusual, infact it is healthy and to be expected. The fact that some people wish to strongly challenge Dean and/or other candidates is not about causing division, it is because some people are convinced that certain candidates can't win. That said, at the end of the day we all have a responsibility to rally around the nominee, and should not put ourselves in position of not being able to line up behind the eventual nominee no matter who it is.

4) Republicans are not evil, and Bush is absolutely nothing like Hitler. The GOP and most of their supporters are just wrong - not satans spawn, not thugs, not hate filled lunatics, not warmongers...they are just wrong. They believe what they believe for various reasons, and they may even be right from time to time. It is our responsibility to listen to what they have to say, determine what if anything policy wise they advocate makes any sense at all, and otherwise show them the left of center alternatives and the reasons why Democratic candidates for offices at every level is better than voting Republican.

5) A majority of Americans will always support having gone to war in Iraq, and that is not going to change. Any candidate running against the Iraq war will have a difficult time in the general election.

6) A majority of Americans will not support tax increases that will affect the middle class. I don't care how you package it, whether it is called repealing Bush's tax cuts, or tax increases that will result in local and state tax cuts - it doesn't matter, Americans are going to be disinclined to vote for any candidate that favors tax increases on the middle class. Tax increases on the rich is even a hard sell, tax increases on the middle class just will not be popular.

7) Despite all the complaining about how contentious the forum has been of late, DU is still the very best political forum on the Internet. Each and every time I log on I find great links, interesting commentary and thought provoking opinion.

Imajika

[LincolnMcGrath]

48. HHMMM

"BBV is mostly a bunch of hooey"

Tell that to the half million victims of identity threft.

"moderation is the key. I don't want to see Unions become to powerful"

At their peak, they never were more than a third of the workforce. Currently they are around 12 percent.

"Republicans are not evil"

I have a Republican Senator in the family. He is in fact, an evil bastard who would eat his mother for a dollar.

[Breezy du Nord]

104. I think he/she meant Republicans in general are not evil

And I agree with her. I knew a Democrat once who was a pervert. Does that make you a pervert? Of course not.

[Woodstock]

77. so I guess you think Republicans were 100% honest in 2000

You might want to read Stupid White Men by Michael Moore, he's got a nice chapter there with all the tricks they pulled. Now add Diebold's chief saying he promised Bush to deliver Ohio to him...

Even if you think all those Jews voted for Buchanon & LaPore switching from Repub to Dem just in time to design that ballot, & the Republican database firm purging all those names that were bad matches, & the absentee ballots that weren't requested counting, & the roadblocks, etc. were figments of the imagination, then I still think it's way offbase to say BBV is hooey. It's chiefly thanks to the efforts of progressives that we might get the paper trail that should have been a given.

[SmokingLoon]

95. I'm sorry, but Moore

seems like too much of a self-serving clown for me to believe anything he says. Bowling was not a documentary. Not to say he doesn't make some good points, because he does.

[Kolesar]

89. #4, the GOP uses Nazi tactics to label us as weak and unpatriotic

Just like the Nazis did to the Jews. Think about that and try to sleep at night.

[Breezy du Nord]

106. That's a schoolyard trick

Smearing people who disagree with you is not an exclusive Nazi thing. Yes, it is stupid to label someone who disagrees with you, but it does not make them evil.

[markus]

49. The Second Amendment

Don't hunt. Don't shoot. Don't own. But I ultimately understand what it's there for, and I'm seriously considering the Don't Own part of the prior statement.

[Cleita]

52. I agree with you about bilingual education.

I had a teacher friend, who taught Spanish speaking immigrant kids in Spanish. She often told me that she feared she was
raising another generation of maids and gardeners and worried about it not being the right thing to do.

I know myself from personal experience that the best thing that can happen to a kid is to get immersed in the language of the country he is living in even if he doesn't speak a word the first day of school. Kids learn really fast, but if they aren't getting English in school and then they go home and still don't speak it, they end up having a problem most of their lives with English.

[Yupster]

128. Many of the kids in bilingual ed in my town in Texas

were born and raised here. They are not immigrants. They have just never learned English. It would sure be nice if the school taught it to them.

I agree with the poster. Bilingualism is great. Bilingual education does not work around where I live.

PS - I taught for 9 years in the public schools.

[LWolf]

57. Okay.

I think all humans ought to have to apply for a license and prove physical, mental, and emotional fitness, before being allowed to breed. I don't know where that stands on the spectrum. I just know that, after a lifetime of working with other people's kids, not to mention first hand experience with family dysfunction, I don't want unprepared people bringing kids into the world. It really conflicts with freedom, doesn't it? When does freedom end? When it damages others. It's that necessary tension between rights and responsibilities. When it comes to reproduction, I lean toward the side of responsibility. For the planet, for the kids, and for the future of human development. Not just choice; responsible choice.

I disagree with you about bilingual ed. Here's why:

To be a lifelong learner; to be successful at any kind of learning, you have to be fluent in at least one language. To be able to think critically, and communicate ideas, you need a strong vocabulary and plenty of experience using language to express your ideas. When you take a 5 year-old who is not necessarily fluent in his first language, and whose vocabulary is not well-developed, and take that language away from him to "immerse" him in English, he often ends up not fluent in either language. I have met many, many of these children in my profession. And they fail, because they don't have the language base to succeed with. It takes more than a year or two to develop language skills at an intellectual, rather than a barely functional, level. If the child is learning to think, discuss, read, write, etc. in the language he already has while he is learning english, he'll make a smooth transition. If we stop inputting all of the ideas, and developing the vocabulary, conversation, and interaction with information while we wait for him to do it in English, he may spend a lifetime being functionally illiterate. The solution is to keep developing intellectual capacities and academic skills in the home language while you learn english. The instructional format I like best for that is dual language immersion.

I'm not pro NAFTA or WTO. I'm not against responsible, ethical free trade. I don't think that's what we're getting from NAFTA.

[Misterpilot]

59. I like guns

And I think it is every Americans responsibility to own several and be proficient in their use.

[blondeatlast]

61. Yeah, but who's your candidate?

:evilgrin:

[devilgrrl]

79. For some reason guns don't bother me...

and I don't even own any - nor do I plan on getting one. If there ever comes to a time when one is needed... well, I guess I'll be shit out of luck. :shrug:

As for responsibility, if I owned a gun, I'd be the first one shot with it - I've got depression issues. :nopity:

Having said that, I have no problem with other people owning guns and using them in safe, controlled environments. If someone uses a gun to commit a crime, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If I am shot and live to tell about it - I will sue your ass. :spank: And just to make myself clear... I think the NRA are a bunch of seering assholes.

and there you have it...

Blast away!

[Hoppin_Mad]

103. I sure wish more Dems / Greens / Leftists owned guns

They might come in VERY handy someday.

 Avoiding tyranny

The key is always to detect tendencies toward tyranny and suppress them before they go too far or become too firmly established. The people must never acquiesce in any violation of the Constitution. Failure to take corrective action early will only mean that more severe measures will have to be taken later, perhaps with the loss of life and the disruption of the society in ways from which recovery may take centuries.  

[Cappadonna]

62. I am a fairly Religious Christan who contemplates the Ministry

Not particularly anti-DU stuff, since I probably flaunt my "Jesus is a Liberal" bumper sticker. But many feel that Christian means "Right wing Bible Thumping, Anti-intellectual freakazoid". Hate to burst many a cynical, atheist bubble but not all religious folks are uneducated (bachelors in Physics from an Ivy League school, pursing an MS in Comp Sci, which will eventually lead to a PhD in information Science) closed minded (I have supported everything from abortion to gay rights and even convinced a few Xians that it wasn't half baked or demagoguery) or anti-intellectual. And on top of that, I'm a vegan. Yes, I am Dennis kuicinch with broader shoulders.

- Cappa

[dawn]

64. right on!

My husband is the same way. Not all Christians are fundies.

[liberalcapitalist]

67. so how is that anti-DU?

I think the only resentment is against individuals who are anti-intellectual, uneducated, and close-minded, who happen to be Christians. Dennis K is the most spiritual candidate of the nine.

[Woodstock]

78. I am religious, too (Christian)

but I think we are less in the minority here than you think - in fact, I think we are the majority.

I think the thing is, since we believe in separation of church and state, and that religion is a private matter for an individual, we don't like to talk about it much.

I don't want in any way, shape, or form, to impose my religion on anyone.

But I think it's important that we counter the right claiming to "own" patriotism & religion to justify the very unpatriotic & unreligious things they do.

[liberalcapitalist]

65. boo to you on both accounts

1. There is no national language. We are a nation of immigrants and one's right to speak his or her own language without discrimination is to be protected. Government is of, by, and for the people, so in those areas where the people who speak another language are sizeable enough to elect schoolboard members and determine their own educational destiny, it is far from your powers to tell them how to talk.

2. Free trade? Not free to me. Not free to the people who lost their jobs. Not free to the children in China working for 7 cents a day. Not free to the Americans who make 50% less since NAFTA. Boo to you, sir!

[dawn]

66. I have some

Although I don't know where these fall on the political spectrum. Libertarian? Far-left liberal?

I am suspicious of big government. I consider this administration to be the epitome of big government.

I am pro animal rights.

I don't like unnecessary taxes. (But I don't think paying taxes for social services is a bad thing. I just don't like paying for the inflated prices of screws in the MIC, for example. Or for unnecessary wars. etc.)

I think drugs should be decriminalized. I feel the same way about prostitution. I think it should be up to the individual whether they want to engage in either. Legislating morality does not enforce it. It just creates more criminals and more people in our jails.

I dislike smoking bans in bars and such. No, I don't smoke.

[dontomas]

108. Here's an addition to the drug issue...

Decriminalize it....then tax the HELL out of it. Just like cigarettes.

[neebob]

68. Well, for one thing

it doesn't bother me when a psychopathic criminal gets the death penalty - but I'd rather see them on the rockpile or used in place of animals for research.

That's about as conservative as I get.

On edit:

On second thought, I'm beginning to think it should be against the law to do more than report the basic five Ws of a trial before it begins. That's pretty non-DUish, I guess.

[booley]

69. we should outlaw same -race marriage

why should straight people of the same race get 'special rights"?

At least thats what I tell people when they get on me about gay marriage.

but seriously, bilingle (sp) education doesn't work as well as it should. better to go back to just doing everything in english and paying special attention to the kids that still don't get it.

kids are actually better at languages then adults are.

I am also for some kind of globalization...just not the plunder system thats in place now.

[kodi]

70. mandated Norplant type implants for both sexes from ages 10-21.

kids having kids is about the worst thing for a society.

use a tax rebate to the kids/parents to get it going, have free government health for all who have the implants.

[Iris]

72. a little extreme given the teenage birth rate is steadily declining

and the effects of Norplant can be debilitating.

[kodi]

84. yeap, that's why i posted it, its extreme

but a decline in the teen age birth rate is not the same thing as a decline in the teen age pregnancy rate. such a program would remove teen age abortion from the table,

and yes i am aware of the reaction to the chemicals in the norplant some people have, but if that could be overcome as a concern, then i would be all for it. actually there is about a 1% reaction to most child vaccinations as well.

[He loved Big Brother]

71. I believe in having fewer children if you cannot afford them

I depise over-breeding.

[Woodstock]

73. I agree with #1 - the bilingual thing doesn't make sense to me

Just from a point of being practical. Where do you draw the line? Will America be five-lingual? Teach Hindu & English in one school, Mandarin & English in another, Spanish & English in another, ... Or maybe teach them all in the same school? Or does everyone segregate themselves into separate regions based on language?

I think the thing that separates Democrats from Republicans is that, while we might disagree on a thing or two, we don't want to take away the rights of others. I don't mind if someone "has problems with abortion" but what I do mind is if someone imposes their poorly thought through position onto women (and anyone who is anti-choice has clearly not thought it all the way through), and thus place the lives of women in the hands of John Ashcroft.

[Sugarbleus]

76. I'm against

1) Nafta

2) RADICAL environmentalism

3) deregulation

I am, in some ways, a civil libertarian. I hate it when the population tries to tell me how I should lead my life. In the final analysis, I am a Social Democrat.

Bing batta boom

[sweetheart]

80. non duish... hmmm

I'm not so sure what DU'ish is.... but here goes:

1. pro free trade, but managed trade.

2. managed open immigration - labour should have the same rights as capital.

3. Against the drugs war, entirely and think all drugs should be legal.

4. I support the libertarian party. Much of DU hates them, in my view, irrationally.

[On the Road]

83. Well, I'm an ex-Conservative with an MBA

and have quite a mixture of viewpoints. Some deregulation is good. Some free trade is good.

I tend to view corporations more favorably than a lot of people here. But I do see a big difference between their day-to-day operations and their often-corrupting relationships with government.

I'm nervous about the cost and effectiveness of large social programs. Universal health care, for example, is a good thing to pursue, but in this country it's got to be done very carefully with lots of controls and limits. Otherwise it's going to fiscally crash and burn.

On the other hand, I tend to favor Noam Chomsky's interpretation of international events. I'm disgusted with the whole history of US intervention and really angry at having been taught such a slanted view of history in high school. I tend to sympathize with small socialist countries, especially when their efforts at self-determination are suffocated by the US.

[Killarney]

85. I'm for the death penalty

Which isn't very liberal of me. ;)

I didn't know that many DUers were so pro-gun. I just assumed that most liberals were for gun-control. I am very much for gun control. I don't want to take away everyone's guns, but I'm for gun control measures (assault weapons ban, gun locks if you have a child in the home, Brady Bill, etc.).

[Kolesar]

88. Get the trash off of broadcast TV

We need higher standards for what is on TV. I don't care if that is the same position as the religious right. It's bad for children. It only benefits the owners of media companies who are in their own race to the bottom.

While we are at it, break up the media companies.

[Pithlet]

101. I agree with breaking up the media companies, but

as a parent of two small children, I have to disagree with your other point. It is my responsibility as a parent to make sure what little television my children do watch is appropriate for them. It isn't appropriate for me to dictate what other adults can watch. That is why TV's come with the ability to change the channel, and even put controls on what channels can come in. When the kids are in bed, I want to be able to have a choice as to what kind of programming I watch. Now, if you're arguing that there could be more quality television, I could see that, although with cable and dish adding more specialized channels, there's a lot more out there to watch that is good then there used to be.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

91. economic orthodoxy is a lot like religious orthodoxy

"Free trade" is a scam. Maybe in a utopia with open borders, something like NAFTA/and the WTO would be good. Now it's just class war against us.

[reachout]

92. "On most issues, we know where the mass of DUers stand."

In the year-or-so I've been coming here (lurking for much of the time), I've had trouble getting a read on that. That being said, I think these are the major points where I oppose the majority opinion here:

I am actively opposed to interventionist foreign policy.

I consider growth economics (read: modern capitalism) to be the single most destructive force humanity has devised. I recognize that it had a place in the course of social evolution, but I am firmly convinced by available evidence that it will lead to resource depletion and environmental degredation to the point of bringing about the collapse of civilization as we know it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

93. I'm an unpatriotic internationalist.

I actually believe that a "One World Government" based on democratic socialist ideals would work. I also believe that, one day, sheer necessity will bring it about. Not in my lifetime, but eventually. Call me an optimist, but I think that diverse people can actually work together.

[SmokingLoon]

94. I am against giving Illegal immigrants

anything but a one way ticket home. I am for more work permits, though.

[MysticMind]

96. alot...I'm very centrist compared to most here

1.)I support(ed) the war on Iraq
2.) I support Israel
3.)I'm pro-free trade
4.) pro-life
5.) against gay marriage
6.) not a big union fan
7.) I support a large defense budget

[liberalitch]

98. Pro-Israel.....

and pro death penalty.

[CalebHayes]

116. The death penalty is worthless!! Here is why!!

Death Penalty Facts

Deterrence

It has never been shown that the death penalty deters violent crimes more effectively than other punishments.
A survey by the UN on the relation between the death penalty and homicide rates concluded, "Research has failed to provide scientific proof that executions have a greater deterrent effect than life imprisonment and such proof is unlikely to be forthcoming. The evidence as a whole still
gives no positive support to the deterrent hypothesis..."
Recent crime figures from countries which have abolished the death penalty do not show that abolishment had any harmful effects.
Race

83% of capital cases involve white victims, even though only 50% of murder victims are white.
It is much more likely for someone to receive the death penalty when the victim is white, than when the person is not.
Innocence

Since 1973, over 80 people have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.
Researchers Radelet & Bedau found 23 cases since 1900 where innocent people were executed.
Retiring Florida Supreme Court Justice Gerald Kogan said he had "grave doubts" about the guilt of some of the people executed in Florida: "There are several cases where I had grave doubts as to the guilt of a particular person." . Kogan was a former homicide detective and prosecutor before eventually rising to Chief Justice.
The number of innocent defendants released from death row has been steadily increasing over recent years. Between 1973 and October, 1993, there was an average of 2.5 innocent defendants released. Since then, the average has increased to 4.6 released per year.
According to a 1987 study, three hundred and fifty people convicted of capital crimes in the United States between 1900 and 1985 were innocent of the crimes charged. Some prisoners escaped execution by minutes, but 23 were actually executed.

Costs

One of the most comprehensive studies on the death penalty in the country found the death penalty to cost North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life.
On a national basis, this translates to an extra cost of over $1 billion dollars since 1976.
In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, which is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell with the highest level of security for forty years.
A 1998 report from the Nebraska Judiciary Committee states that any savings from executing an inmate are outweighed by the financial legal costs. The report concluded that the current death penalty law does not serve the best interest of Nebraskans.
The Judicial Conference of the United States reported that the defense costs in cases where death was sought were about four times higher than in comparable cases where death was not sought. It was also found that the prosecution costs in death cases were 67% higher than the defense costs, without even including the investigative costs provided by law enforcement agencies.


Sources:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs2.html http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dpicrace.html http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm http://www.uscourts.gov/publications.html http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/dp/dpfacts.htm

[Hoppin_Mad]

100. I own handguns and am pro death penalty -eom-

[CalebHayes]

118. The death penalty is worthless!! Here is why!!

Death Penalty Facts

Deterrence

It has never been shown that the death penalty deters violent crimes more effectively than other punishments.
A survey by the UN on the relation between the death penalty and homicide rates concluded, "Research has failed to provide scientific proof that executions have a greater deterrent effect than life imprisonment and such proof is unlikely to be forthcoming. The evidence as a whole still
gives no positive support to the deterrent hypothesis..."
Recent crime figures from countries which have abolished the death penalty do not show that abolishment had any harmful effects.
Race

83% of capital cases involve white victims, even though only 50% of murder victims are white.
It is much more likely for someone to receive the death penalty when the victim is white, than when the person is not.
Innocence

Since 1973, over 80 people have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.
Researchers Radelet & Bedau found 23 cases since 1900 where innocent people were executed.
Retiring Florida Supreme Court Justice Gerald Kogan said he had "grave doubts" about the guilt of some of the people executed in Florida: "There are several cases where I had grave doubts as to the guilt of a particular person." . Kogan was a former homicide detective and prosecutor before eventually rising to Chief Justice.
The number of innocent defendants released from death row has been steadily increasing over recent years. Between 1973 and October, 1993, there was an average of 2.5 innocent defendants released. Since then, the average has increased to 4.6 released per year.
According to a 1987 study, three hundred and fifty people convicted of capital crimes in the United States between 1900 and 1985 were innocent of the crimes charged. Some prisoners escaped execution by minutes, but 23 were actually executed.

Costs

One of the most comprehensive studies on the death penalty in the country found the death penalty to cost North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life.
On a national basis, this translates to an extra cost of over $1 billion dollars since 1976.
In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, which is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell with the highest level of security for forty years.
A 1998 report from the Nebraska Judiciary Committee states that any savings from executing an inmate are outweighed by the financial legal costs. The report concluded that the current death penalty law does not serve the best interest of Nebraskans.
The Judicial Conference of the United States reported that the defense costs in cases where death was sought were about four times higher than in comparable cases where death was not sought. It was also found that the prosecution costs in death cases were 67% higher than the defense costs, without even including the investigative costs provided by law enforcement agencies.


Sources:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs2.html http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dpicrace.html http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm http://www.uscourts.gov/publications.html http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/dp/dpfacts.htm

[Strapping Buck]

102. Pro-life, no apologies, no exceptions...

I am a human being. My life is protected under the law. At earlier stages of my biological development I was a fetus and an embryo. Everyone in this forum is a human being. And everyone in this forum was once a fetus and an embryo. If those fetuses and embryos were not us, then who were they? If they were not humans, then what were they?

[Breezy du Nord]

109. If you don't like abortions, find them immoral, there's a simple solution:

Don't have one.

[MysticMind]

112. thats not a good argument..

Its like saying ,"If you think murder is wrong then don't do it."

[Kathy in Cambridge]

117. No, it isn't

it's about denying the rights of half the population. Women.

[MysticMind]

120. what about unborn women..

Where are their rights?

[Crowdance]

121. Woman=adult female person

How is it possible for such to not be born? The "pro-life" dogma is so confused.

[MysticMind]

123. oh so female children don't count either..

I know what you meant. However when do you believe fetuses become women with rights?

[Crowdance]

127. You know what I meant, but you couldn't help posting ignorantly?

Quite a tactic. Women gain rights when they are women. Fetuses gain rights when they are born--which makes them human. It's quite simple, really, if one simply uses our language accurately.

[MysticMind]

129. I just don't get how

A fetus transforms into a person just by passing through its mother's vagina.

[Crowdance]

131. Oh, well. If dictionaries, science, law and history haven't helped you

to "get how," I'm sure I can't. Good luck with your quest.

[Strapping Buck]

139. Science? Please, let's talk science

If you think science supports your view of this issue, then you are the one posting ignorantly. Rhetoric, emotions, opinion polls, and a myriad of other things may be helpful-- but not science.

Go ahead, please give us the scientific reasons why a human is not a human before she is born.

[Yupster]

130. Well outlawing murder denies the right to 100 % of the population.

Mystic is right.

The argument "if you don't like abortion, don't have one" is a weak one.

Personally, I am pro-choice, but would agree with lots of restrictions. The issue is far from clear to me.

[Pithlet]

133. I'm pro-choice

but your stance makes the most sense if one is going to be anti-abortion. Those who are against it but want to make exceptions for rape or incest or health of the mother have never explained to me why they think those products of conception are any less human.

Yours is also the stance that is the hardest to argue with, because anyone who truly believes that abortion is murdering a human would probably not be swayed by any arguments. If I thought abortion=killing babies, I'd be right there with you.

[CalebHayes]

111. I'm a fan of PETA!

I think they have the right idea.

[NewJerseyDem]

115. My conservative views

I'm pro-free trade.
I'm against affirmative action.
I support the partial-birth abortion ban.
"Individual investment accounts" for Social security don't seem that bad to me. However, I should do more research on the details of that proposal.
I generally supports some forms of tort reform. Republicans usually go too far though.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

119. I disagree with you on affirmative action but we should have....

some form of meaningful tort reform. These hanous lawsuits are just too much!

[loudsue]

125. TOTAL overhaul of laws/definitions of "Corporations"

I think it's time that "corporations" quit being considered "people" with so much immunity for the directors/decision makers. I think that the buck should stop at the top, and any harmful/illegal actions should result in the incarceration of the top tier.

New Labor laws need to be passed to insure corporations treat their employees well, by universally applied standards...no wiggle room....whether they operate domestically or globally. This means that unions would be virutually irrelevant...the laws would be written under the requirements for forming a corporation.

I also favor enforcement of corporate "mission statements", rather than allowing the existence of a corporation to be solely to benefit the shareholders and management. If a corporation doesn't exist to do something and do it well, with honesty and integrity and protection for the environment and its employees, it should be required to bear certain stringent regulations.

The entire business/economic structure needs a complete overhaul and new paradigm. Something that works all across the world.

I favor forming a new Labor Party of sorts...a Populist Party, that insures that taxpayers benefit from the tax dollars they pay directly, and that government understands that it represents the will of the people, and ONLY the will of the people.

I also favor ABSOLUTE separation of church and state. Any church that preaches politics should instantly lose its tax-exempt status.

I favor government sponsored educational TV and radio stations with programming provided by universities and trade schools and investigative journalists. I favor the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine.

I favor reinstatement of Usury Laws. Banks should not only be re-regulated, but heavily regulated.

I favor a constitutional amendment reinstating the gold standard, or something similar, to back the U.S. currency. Something tangible.

I favor an overhaul of the medical/pharmaceutical corporate culture, eliminating corporate welfare without a lowering in the price of drugs where ANY government funds (tax dollars) were used for researching those drugs. Any drugs that are "to be taken for the rest of one's life" should be--by law--sold at rock bottom prices.... currently, the drug companies are creating drugs that guarantee the companies an income for the life of the patient...quite a sizeable annuity. Quite an incentive NOT TO CURE DISEASE, but to treat it with drugs that someone can't come off of...or they die.

In other words....I think power should be in the hands of the people, NOT the corporations.

And every election should have a paper trail that cannot be modified by any person or agency. And every election, no matter how seemingly inconsequential, should have the count overseen equally by parties to all sides of an issue or candidacy.

I think people should have complete dominion over their own bodies. If they want Dr. Kevorkian to let 'em off the hook, they should be allowed to. If they don't want to carry a fetus, they shouldn't have to. If they want to smoke weed or smoke crack, they should be free to, as long as they don't do anything to harm the safety of others. A certain portion of Tax dollars would be well spent on rehabilitation of addicts...it would benefit all of society to have fewer addicts...especially the addicts themselves, and their immediate families.


Amen.

:kick:

[ldoolin]

137. right and left

Where I deviate to the right:

1. Guns, the second amendment, hunting.

2. Generally oppose such things as motorcycle and bicycle helmet laws, the 21 drinking age, etc.

3. I think a good case could be made for reinstating gold or silver backed currency - although this is something that needs a lot more research.

Where I deviate to the left:

1. I'm as hard line as they come on civil liberties and civil rights issues. I want drugs legalized, the death penalty abolished, prisons used for the worst violent felons only and not for any other offenses, the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act repealed in their entirety, surveillance cameras in public places banned, all anti-panhandling and anti-vagrancy laws repealed, etc. I agree with just about everything in the ACLU's platform and then some; I don't think the ACLU goes far enough!

2. I'd like to see a much more militant labor movement than we have right now (think "one big union"), and most big industries taken over and turned over to their workers to be democratically run and employee-owned. I suppose that makes me a small-s democratic socialist. So be it. I wear the term with pride. Socialist socialist socialist!!!

3. Don't blame Nader for 2000. Gore cost himself the election by ignoring the voices of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. He learned his lesson. It's too bad that lesson had to come at such a high cost.