Read this and you will never ridicule tinfoilhatters again.

[barbaraann]

http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=12&u=/nm/britain_chile_dc

This is also posted on LBN but I think we need to digest what this means as far more than just a news headline.

THIS reveals the thinking behind all of those secret, elite groups that get together in places like the Bilderberg Hotel and Bohemian Grove. Conspiracy may not be the exact word to describe it, because it is bigger than that and right out in the open and already wielding almost total power.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Yes, it is in the open, but most US voters are OK with it

Even on this site, I read posts every day that indicate that the poster takes for granted that the US controls various other countries, and they don't have a problem with it.

It is accepted as a given by "conservatives" and "liberals" alike that the US knows what is best for the Majority World, who would be just so lost and tempest-tos'd without the magnamimous help from Omniscient America.

[arcos]

7. I agree...

some people don't realize there's a sort of "iron curtain" right now. This time, it's the US who controls it, and countries under its power have to comply with what the US says. That means having a "democracy" (just as long as someone who is not opposed to US interests wins), free trade, privatization, etc.

[Sophree]

33. "resentment of its careless power"

From truthout- Ray McGovern http://truthout.org/docs_03/123103C.shtml

"Often it takes a compassionate but truth-telling outsider to throw light on our country, its leaders, its policies. Bishop Peter Storey of South Africa, who walked the walk in his courageous, outspoken resistance to the apartheid regime, provides this prophetic word:

"I have often suggested to American Christians that the only way to understand their mission is to ask what it might have meant to witness faithfully to Jesus in the heart of the Roman Empire. Certainly, when I preach in the United States I feel, as I imagine the Apostle Paul did when he first passed through the gates of Rome--admiration for its people, awe at its manifest virtues, and resentment of its careless power."

Lip service to democracy when it serves our purpose, support of despots when it serves us. We are not living up to our lofty ideals and we are seen as a nation of hypocrites as a result.

[KFC]

2. Don't think so

There are still nutters who believe in the explosive demolition of the twin towers, the US caused the earthquake in Iran, Wellstone was murdered, Bush caused the explosion of the space shuttle, and on and on...

[barbaraann]

4. The specifics are arguable.

The overall reality isn't.

[KFC]

5. I agree

Nearly all conspiracy theories are total bullshit.

No argument there.

[bvar22]

26. I agree with KFC.

The World is still flat, the atom cannot be split, and nothing will exceed the sound barrier.

[Skip Intro]

9. You don't have to believe in an earthquake machine

to know something stinks about the "official" 9*11 story. So much that doesn't add up there (just ask condi, if you can get her under oath).

Doesn't disallowing any explanation other than that proclaimed the bush regime equal total faith in the current government, some deep trust that they are all honest people who can be taken at their word? Some might call that belief "nutty."

[TomNickell]

30. Nobody said such a stupid thing.....

<<Doesn't disallowing any explanation other than that proclaimed the bush regime equal total faith in the current government, some deep trust that they are all honest people who can be taken at their word? Some might call that belief "nutty.">>

Nobody here says any such thing. What -many- people have said is that serious investigations are needed and overdue and that -nutty-, unsubstantiated, silly accusations and 'theories' discredit serious inquiry.

[Skip Intro]

32. ?

"There are still nutters who believe in the explosive demolition of the twin towers, the US caused the earthquake in Iran, Wellstone was murdered, Bush caused the explosion of the space shuttle, and on and on..."

...from the post to which I responded, raising the notion that if one discounts any challenge of the "offical" story on any of these events, then one must, by default, embrace the official story.

"Stupid" as that may be, I guess.

:eyes:

[Chutaiko]

3. Its so odd

to hear so many horrible things about a nation that I love so much. I was introduced to Chile a couple of years ago and I go back as often as possible now. I've never been anywhere as honest as Chile.

I just hope that Chile keeps on the "good track" for the forseeable future.

[Cleita]

6. So I have Chilean relatives and have been there many times.

What was this about Allende committing suicide? How does one commit suicide with a machine gun pointed at your back? Allende was a very honest man, but he chose the wrong side, Russia to back him and he lost control of the situation early in his presidency.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. I never before saw the claim that Allende committed suicide.

Apparently it's news to you, too.

[Art_from_Ark]

13. The official story was that he committed suicide

Junta In Charge
State of Siege Decreed by Military Chiefs--Curfew Imposed
Chilean Armed Forces Depose Allende

The New York Times, 12 September 1973

Santiago, Chile, Wednesday, Sept.12 -- President Salvador Allende Gossens was deposed yesterday in a violent military coup, and the Santiago police said that he had committed suicide rather than surrender to the attackers.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/AllendeCoup.html

[Cleita]

16. No, it's not news to me.

The official story was that he committed suicide with a machine gun and had forty bullets in him. This is suspicious to begin with but then the leaks started coming out that the bullets were in his back. The number of bullets varied. I don't know if there ever was an unbiased autopsy performed. Most of us find that aiming a machine gun on oneself that would make forty bullets enter your body a little far fetched. It makes more sense if someone else is aiming it at you.

[Blue_Chill]

28. Pinochet claimed he killed himself

Funny how he shot himself in the back eh?

Yeah Chileans know it's bullshit. Allende was wrong to go as far as he did, he angered many and in my opinion overstepped his authority. However what Pinochet did was far worse, he betrayed his people in the worst way. The fact the man is living out his years in comfort is an insult.

[TomNickell]

8. Yes, I will too.

This is Government as usual.

Tinfoil hats are about Earthquake machines and disappearing airliners and scalar electromagnetic fields and hundreds of Gov't employees killing their relatives and 'proving' vast accusations by the look in Bush's eye.

[barbaraann]

10. I guess you believe evil people don't use advanced technology.

As I said, specifics are arguable, but there is no doubt in my mind that the evil people running things aren't doing everything in their power to maintain and increase their hold on the world.

[TomNickell]

20. Batman & Robin or James Bond?

There ARE evil people. Many of them are in high places.

BUT....

There ain't no EarthQuake Machines.

Life ain't a Batman movie.....

[barbaraann]

21. I keep an open mind.

I've seen too much scoffing when it wasn't warrated in my lifetime to scoff at anything.

Also, I have known and met several very, very famous people who have pushed the boundaries of science. I am married to someone who stuns people with his ideas and inventions. He's one of those people that when you tell him he can't do something, he's determined to do it and does it. :-)

[TomNickell]

22. Open Mind vs Credulity....

The boundaries of science are pushed from -inside- the current boundaries. Almost never is there an invention that is -truly- unthought of--despite the fact that somebody said it was impossible. An EarthQuake generating machine is simply off the radar; 'Scalar electromagntic rays' are verbal nonsense--like the gibberish on Star Trek.

If you have money to invest, don't give it to the guy who's invented EarthQuake machines, anti-gravity machines, perpetual motion machines, or mind-control machines.

In the case of any extraordinary claim the BURDEN OF PROOF is on the person making the claim. Otherwise, we're butt deep in nonsense.

[mkultra]

11. not me

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories :)

[barbaraann]

19. LOL!

I can tell. :-)

[RainDog]

14. This is global realpolitick

when the US and the USSR thought the other was going to destroy it at any chance, they fought their wars in spheres of influence.

That was also the reason for US involvement in Vietnam and Korea.

No, this is not a secret, and hasn't been for a long time. At the time, the domino theory prevailed in the US, which meant that we could not allow any other nation to align itself with the USSR, even when that nation democratically elected a democratic socialist leader who was trying to bring about social change with the support of the people who usually don't have a say.

This is why the US today calls Venezuela a problem, while other nations call it a democracy. Chavez is not in the pocket of the US.

Needless to say, our support of a military dictator who is guilty of crimes against humanity who was arrested while in our British allies medical care. Pinochet was only spared a trial in Chile because of age-related dementia.

On the other hand, the US wants to put its age-related demented war criminal on our dime.

But I don't see how this relates to so many "conspiracy theories." --or because the sort of Kissinger politics which made America the evil empire for many other nations, that doesn't mean that this person or that person was murdered...each incident has to stand or fall on its own merits.

To me, conspiracy theories are of a few kinds, anyway. The all out wacky, the possible based upon known similar incidents, and the ones based upon a compelling number of valid questions that remain unanswered and therefore give rise to various explanations.

What's what seems to gradually get sorted out after a generation has passed.

You might want to check out the book, The Pinochet File, which was published by The New Press, a not-for-profit publisher, from the National Security Archive documents which have been declassified.

[MacCovern]

15. Less tinfoil, more common sense

I hardly see how your link about Pinochet would give credit to the tinfoil crowd.

Whenever I see anything about Bilderbergers, evil families, the evil Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, etc. I automatically give it very little credence.

Most DUers use a great deal of common sense, but there are a few who cling to things like: planted explosives at the WTC, Iranian earthquake caused by United States technology (HARP, etc.), Wellstone assassinated, etc.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. Yes, it's wacky to even imagine that Wellstone was murdered

because, as we all know, there has never been a political assassination in America

:eyes:

[TomNickell]

23. Wellstone differs....

This is not a conspiracy theory. Wellstone -might- have been murdered.

But, there is no evidence that he was. So, this is just an unsubstantiated speculation.

[54anickel]

18. Hey, I gotta admit that there is WAY too much secrecy regarding

HAARP. Not saying they can puposely cause earthquakes, Just saying that there is NO consideration being given to the environmental effects of this technology and there cannot be with all of the secrecy involved.

[preciousdove]

24. Do not dishonor Wellstone by impuning the people who question..

the timing and the method of his death. We are his legacy, his voice that was stilled.

There was a verbal threat by Cheney before the Iraq vote. There was motive. There was opportunity. There was also fact that Kennedy was supposed to also be on that flight and that the co-pilot had a limited involvement in the Mossoui case.

Wellstone realized what was happening to the country and broke a promise to run again. Coleman was going to lose.

In September of that year I saw it on his face at the State Fair in a moment he thought he was alone before he stepped into the crowd at the Labor Booth. I knew it the moment it was announced.

I immediately called Ventura's office (I don't call political people) and begged them to let Minnesota law enforcement to monitor the investigation. The Minneapolis FBI made the trip to the crash sight in under 60 minutes by car. (The same office where the object taken from the World Trade Center turned up. The one that was put in order after the agent/lawyer whistle blower left) There is no car that travels that fast.

No matter how many times you disrespect us you will NEVER change what we know in our hearts, or still our voices and you are aiding those who would steal our freedom, rights and future. You do not have to agree with us but what is you motive for the knee jerk reaction to what nobody here can factually know?

And I don't believe that we caused the earthquake in Iran and have serious doubts about planted explosions at the WTC but still want a real investigation. It was a crime it has never been remotely investigated as a crime.

[TrogL]

25. There is not a word in the article about the Illuminati

or any other conspiracy for that matter.

What are you on??

[Blue_Chill]

27. I am Chilean and I will still ridicule tinfoil hatters.

No one at all has ever stated that governments do not support dictators when it benefits them. This was never a conspiracy it was a well know, but under reported, fact of life during the cold war.

These are not tin hat accusations, these were well documented historic events. The tin hatters on DU that get ridiculed are subjected to such anger because they make assumptions without proof. They also respond to any and all info that disproves their theories as government lies. That kind of logic can not be debated and it serves no purpose other then to give the right wingers more ammunition.

[bpilgrim]

31. First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they attack you

then you win. - Gandhi

What Uncle Sam Really Wants

by Noam Chomsky

The main goals of US foreign policy

1. Protecting our turf
2. The liberal extreme
3. The "Grand Area"
4. Restoring the traditional order
5. Our commitment to democracy
6. The threat of a good example
7. The three-sided world

Devastation abroad

1. Our Good Neighbor policy
2. The crucifixion of El Salvador
3. Teaching Nicaragua a lesson
4. Making Guatemala a killing field
5. The invasion of Panama
6. Inoculating Southeast Asia
7. The Gulf War
8. The Iran/contra cover-up
9. The prospects for Eastern Europe
10. The world's rent-a-thug

Brainwashing at home

1. How the Cold War worked
2. The war on (certain) drugs
3. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
4. Socialism, real and fake
5. The media

The Future

1. Things have changed
2. What you can do
3. The struggle continues
4. Notes

read online here...
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

happy new year :toast:


peace

[Darranar]

29. I have no problem with people...

accusing the US of aiding dictators for less than altruistic reasons. For the most art, such accusations are not "conspiracy thoeries" - to the contrary, they make much sense and answer many questions. The same goes for unorthodox explanations for wars and similar things.

LIHOP and similar theories tend to explain things that don't really require explaining. Human stupidity and incompetence is unlimited and common; that this exists in our security establishment is undeniable. People make mistakes. Naturally, they want to cover up such mistakes; hence the refusal of a real and objective investigation into the matter.

I agree that an investigation is necessary. I agree that the official story has holes in it and that there are questions that need to be answered. None of that is proof of anything but the fact that we are not getting the entire story.