The Nazi Hydra in America

[the_boxer_]

Interesting reading:


Preface:

In the second chapter it will be shown that how fascism is unique in not requiring a shooting revolution and can arise out of a nature degenerative process of a democratic capitalistic society. Since fascism is a top down movement all that is required is that the elite of that society begin to concentrate their power without regards to the masses. Thus all fascist need do is to corrupt the political and economic processes to begin their march to a totalitarian state. They can do so with spreading forth propaganda to discredit the government, the schools, the media, the scientists, the courts and the remainder of the very institutions that have made America great. Once they have created a critical mass of distrust in the public then they are free to begin the process of concentration of power. This is the approach that the hard right and Republican Party has followed since the election of Reagan in 1980. It is a gradual process that can easily be cloaked until it's too late. The purveyors of fascism are free to mask much of the concentration under the banner of capitalism. Such as the consolidation of the media, which is today nothing more than the mouth-piece for corporate America.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/preface.html

From the start:

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html

[bobthedrummer]

1. Keep posting the truth as long as there is an Internet.

It has happened here.
Fascism is the conceptual framework of the neo-conservatives, and Nazis found a political home in the extreme RW of the Republican Party after "recruitment" into US national security in the war against godless communism.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/ratlines.htm

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ROG309A.html

[HereSince1628]

16. A year ago the fellow that introduced me to Dean's campaign

laughed when I said the Bush administration's repression had a lot in common with fascism...he isn't laughing anymore.

[HereSince1628]

2. Reads like my writings over the early part of spring and summer.

I'm glad to see more people chewing on this.

What's happening isn't classical fascism, but that by no means makes it any better.

Much of the behavior is the same, it is merely motivated by a different class of people. Classical fascism arose as a rebellion of the middle class to societal change following industrialization. This current monster is of, for, and by, the capitalists--the owner-class--in response to post-industrialization. Consequently the concept of regulation/harnessing of capital to development of projects for the national good (a hallmark of Italian Fascism) is totally missing, and rather than harnessing capital, capital is harnessing (perhaps more accurately castrating)government to the benefit of its captains (think Ken Lay) with some lip-service to the "investors."

I've been and I remain uncertain how to name this, fascism was never well defined. Searching for essential behaviors/markers in order to confirm a fascist typology seems logically flawed. What we are experiencing is certainly pro laissez-faire--something fascism was not. Currently, and for lack of a better term, I am thinking this seems more like good old fashion feudal tyranny, with the size a fiefdom relative to the size of corporate holdings.

[ming]

4. Feudalism is the right term

Essentially we are returning to the times of the landed gentry.

[the_boxer_]

6. I've read JackRabbits essay on Corporate Fascism (Neo-Fascism)

Found it to be excellent reading. Corporate Fascism where the corporation(s) is/are absolute instead of the state, I think was JR's point.

[HereSince1628]

8. I think the importance of corporations is undeniable

but fascism is nationalistic and the current push of corporations is to be supranational, i.e. operate above the regulation of mere nations.

[bobthedrummer]

9. We have the Private Military Corporation/PMC being contracted by W's

US government, not by me and you or the People that are supposed to be represented but by George W. Bush and the cabal around him. That is an example, I think, of the new fascism-globalistic in nature. Private armies. Spooks.
http://www.icij.org/dtaweb/icij_bow.asp?Section=Chapter&ChapNum=2

[HereSince1628]

12. Maybe I need to underscore my point on nationalism & fascism

The ideology of fascism was to unite ("bundle" as in fasces) labor, industry, and government to one purpose which develops and conducts programs for the good of a nation in which the interests of labor, industry and government are indivisible. That sort of unity has a strong middle class ring to it, and the popularity of such thinking in the 19-teens is evident on the back of the American Mercury head dime whose obverse is emblazoned with a fasces!

But, specifically to my point...the corporations HAVE NO LOYALTY TO NATIONS OR LABOR. They seek to operate ABOVE the control of mere nations. Rather, they seek or have the control to constrain the actions of governments through organizations like the GOP and WTO. IF not by the internal politics of a nation, then through international pressure to cause a government to adopt corporate friendly policy.

I am not at all sure that you can have the bundling needed for fascism if in fact corporations seek to HAVE NO LOYALTY TO NATIONS OR LABOR. Indeed, our circumstance seems very much "unbundled."

[the_boxer_]

15. Agreed...

however, they will assume absolute power if the right has its way.

[the_boxer_]

7. This is pretty scary and true:

The author does recognize that there have been times in the past of widespread repression such as the rise of the Klan in the 1920s, the prosecution of the Wobblies in the same time period, McCarthyism in the 1950s and even COINTELPRO in the 1960s. What then makes this time particularly dangerous and unique? The second chapter explores the 3Ms needed for a revolution to succeed. Those are the media, the military and the money. The hard right today have taken on the aspects of social darwinism and at no time in the past has the wealth of the country been controlled by so few. The media has consolidated until only seven companies now control the airwaves and the press. . In essence it is now a reality that big money now owns the media, the only exception to that is the net. But even here consolidation is already beginning to occur.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/preface.html

[HereSince1628]

10. Repressive yes, but many forms of governance are repressive

again this is something of a problem because fascism has never been well defined, and consequently using one of the dozen or more checklists of fascist characteristics (which include from as few as 1 crucial trait to more than 20) results in ambiguous results.

A central trait noted by European authors includes palengensis...something along the phoenix like rise of the nation above the ruin of some social crisis. In part I see the rise of the Republican Cult of Reaganism as such a reaction to the economic and military failures of the 1970's. Just as the authors here.

BUT, repressive/authoritarian behavior is a fairly common occurrence of conservative politics. The fact that the repressive behavior is expressed in varied ways suggests that its specific manifestations are context dependent, thus they are secondary (or satellite traits).

This is one of the truly confounding problems of attempting to interpret our contemporary circumstance as fascism. Any context dependent behaviors may or may not be manifest in a particular setting and evenso may not unambiguously betray a specific form underlying political motivation.

[RainDog]

18. FDR said the definition of fascism is when corporations

have more power than the govt.

So I think that what is happening now definitely fits.

and, btw...my dad lied about his age, went to Italy and fought against the fascists. He was just a kid, and an infantry grunt. He marched around Mussolini hanging in a square in Milan with his mistress.

My dad is turning in his grave right now to see what Bush has done to this country.

[the_boxer_]

19. As JackRabbit explained

Neo-Fascism is Corporate Fascism and relies on the government to relinquish absolute power. Berlusconi's Italy is a great example of this. He owns all the media outlets. He controls what is said to the people. This cloaked Fascism.

Here's JackRabbit's Part one and two of his essay.

You may also want to check these out:

Modern History Sourcebook: Benito Mussolini: What is Fascism, 1932

Note: I'm in some disagreement with the above link such as Marxism is the total opposite of Fascism. I don't believe this is true. I believe that Marxism left uncontrolled can fall into Fascism as the case maybe in Stalinist Russia. I believe that the opposite of Fascism is Anarchy. The absolute of either is not a welcome idea.

Italy’s post-fascists bid for respectability

I think the above will give some perspectives on Fascism.

[Minstrel Boy]

3. The more I learn, the more I think this isn't

World War III or IV. It's still World War II. Only the players have switched sides.

The great American families of the '30s, those who plotted against FDR and financed Hitler: this is their day. Remember that, when you hear Republicans talk about undoing the last 60 years.

The oligarchs, ideologues and their red, white and blue brown shirts will never own the term "fascist." It has only negative associations. It can't be rehabilitated. But fascism is what they've brought America.

[bobthedrummer]

5. Someone made the "original" intelligence failure-recruiting Nazis

and giving them identities and jobs as Americans working in US national security. What a betrayal of my father and all the other US military veterans of WWII.
http://www.goordnance.apg.army.mil/OPpaperclip.htm

http://www.infoage.org/paperclip.html

http://www.dc.peachnet.edu/~shale/humanities/composition/assignments/experiment/paperclip.html

[HereSince1628]

11. Keep out the tin-foil, some think this is still the war of 1812

Several essays are available on the web concerning the interest that certain Britons have in using international corporations to destroy the United States as an independent nation...in such conspiracy theory NAFTA, GATT and the WTO are seen as weapons to use against the US.

Personally I think we can arrive by more parsimonious arguments to better explanations of the current state of affairs...

[Capn Sunshine]

13. Not when they are using the same tricks as before

The tendency to dismiss all this as tinfoilery is conditioned into us by the selfsame Nazi symps. Perhaps now the names have changed, and they are really fascists after a fashion, but I think keeping the roots alive is an important reminder that we must NEVER AGAIN allow this scourge to flourish.

[HereSince1628]

14. Oh, I apologize if I've given the impression that it's all tinfoilery

I meant to say NOTHING like that. WE ARE IN TERRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCE. There is no doubt about that.

My point was to say there are various interpretations that require tinfoil and which make it more difficult for the Paul Revere's among us to cry an effective alarm.

Most importantly, I hope that my comments--based on almost a year's study--is that this thing we have is terrible, but it really lacks a proper name. It shares much with the repression obtained under European fascism including the use of military expeditions to secure economic footholds. But at a closer inspection the problem isn't because the nation is being united toward a shared vision for the nation or its entire population. Rather the mission seems to be to secure priviledges for corporate elites to pursue more or less laissez-faire business activity beyond the reach of national laws which could protect the interests of citizens and the nation per se.

[bobthedrummer]

17. Kick the nazis in the balls kick

:dem:

[the_boxer_]

20. bobthedrummer!

:yourock:

[the_boxer_]

21. Kicking!

:dem:

[the_boxer_]

22. Double kick...

:dem: :dem: