bushco trys to send a WOMAN to deal with Iranian Mullahs?

[Ernesto]

Give me a F$$king break! Help me here, I'm on a roll!..... A HUGE opportunity for a diplomatic break through and the idiots want to humilliate (in their culture) the Iranian leadership by making them recognize a FEMALE US envoy... Not to mention that she is flying the Red CROSS in their face. Either the repukes are too stupid to understand or they have planned this diplomatic failure for their own political gain @ home.

[Dookus]

1. I have to disagree here...

we shouldn't make OUR decisions based on the sexism or racism of other cultures.

If a woman is the right person to do the job, then she should be sent.

[boneygrey]

3. You're absolutely right.

[Maddy McCall]

9. Dookus, I am admiring you more and more these days...

I am finding myself saying "Yep, I agree" to many of your posts. Never realized how aligned we are in thought before.

Anyway, again I say "I agree." :-)

[Dookus]

11. awww...

that's sweet. Thanks!

[Deja Q]

13. Yeah, but shouldn't we be respecting other cultures?

Yes, even if they are sexist? :-(

But they have their own culture and, quite frankly, if anything positive comes out of this envoy, it'll be a real miracle.

It's almost the same as a white man going to Harlem, walking around in blackface makeup.

[Skittles]

15. NO

WE SHOULD NOT RESPECT OPPRESSION AND SEXISM. PERIOD!!!

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Good

It's about time we stopped bowing and scraping to the racism or sexism of other cultures.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

50. absolutely

very good point.

[RainDog]

2. Lots of different ways to take it

either they wanted to look like they were offering something and knew they would get turned down,

or maybe they think that it's okay for a woman to represent the United States because our nation allows females to govt. positions.

I realize why you say that about the Iranians, but it's not like they pulled Dole out of the pineapple patch...she does represent the Red Cross for us.

Are there only females working in other nations' rescue efforts?

What about red crescent? Is it soley male dominated?

I don't know these things, but I wonder.

[Poiuyt]

5. Not anymore

Elizabeth Dole is no longer with the Red Cross

[Ernesto]

26. Duh

Let's see.... could she be Jesse Helms' senatorial replacment, packaged by bush as ex director of the American Red Cross?.... Hmmm

[madrchsod]

4. goes to show that there are

no republican women who could do the job. i`ll go with the political gain idea,sounds like a rove idea.

[bratcatniok]

6. Good point-We should respect other cultures and not force ours on them

[Dookus]

12. By that way of thinking....

the "culture" of apartheid in South Africa should've been respected. If they'd insisted that we never allow a black American to go there, should we have acquiesced?

If a Catholic country objects to a gay embassy worker, should we remove him?

If a fundamentalist muslim country wants our female embassy workers to wear burqa's, should we agree?

In all cases the answer is no.

[Deja Q]

14. I stand corrected

Thak you for the edification (I was also a naysayer before reading your post...)

[Yupster]

19. I thought I remember

that we intentionally had a Black ambassador to either South Africa or Rhodesia during apartheid. Am I remembering that right?

Seems like the same sort of idea.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

23. i have to disagree

I don't think you can lump all those situations together. You have to consider what's at stake. If south africa had rejected a black representative, well then screw them cuz they don't have anything we want. We'll send him anyway and they'll have to deal with it. The same with the gay embassy worker.

However, I'm 24 years old and we have literally been in a state of hostility with Iran since i was born. Iran funds anti-israeli group hizbollah and are possibly looking to build nukes as a deterrent to us and israel. The stakes between Iran and south africa are completely different. It benefits us and especially the middle east if we can find a peaceful resolution to the conflicts going on there and we cannot allow that to be stymied because the mullahs want to be neanderthals when it comes to women.

[Ernesto]

25. Welcome to you CUA

When I was 24, me & my kind were tryin' to lynch Richard Milhouse Nixon. We finally nailed him, but it took a while. Hang in there Amigo, the fight will never be over.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

28. Thanks Ernesto

I'm gonna keep fighting too, but let's hope Bush's part in this fight is over in November.

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. Yes we can

We don't NEED anything from Iran either. If we find peace, great. But to do it on racist or sexist grounds (both of which are mandatory for the Iranians), then that is not peace at all.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

44. we greatly differ

On the value of peace it sounds like. If we could get Iran's help, and this is a big if, but if we could work with them it would help to end the palestinian-israeli confict, end their nuclear program, help with the reconstruction of iraq, and probably hasten the trend toward democracy if we estabilished trade with them as well.

If we didn't need Iran we wouldn't be asking them to stop nuclear weapon production, hand over captured al queda, don't try to meddle in iraq, etc etc

Having a dialogue with Iran makes those goals a lot easier and the STAKES are so high that we can and should do it on racist or sexist grounds if we have to. I mean, what would you have us do? Iran is not going to develop western style values overnight. Are we supposed to wait 20 or 30 years until they have more respect for womens rights before we try to work with them?

[Blitz]

41. Not all cultures are equal

Some aspects of some cultures do not merit respect. In fact, some aspects of some cultures deserve to be deplored, ridiculed, confronted and, if possible, destroyed. This is how civilization progresses and evolves.

[lumpy]

45. Not all cultures are equal?

To what? Who is to do the judging which culture deserves respect or deserves destruction. This is how civilization progresses? What is meant by progress? Progressing onward and upward to the continuous state of destruction? The state of affairs in the world today has not progressed beyond the dark ages. And will not evolve into anything else as long as people are willing to hold on to their animal territorial and killer instincts. Civilization progresses and evolves? I think not.

[Blitz]

51. "The state of affairs in the world today . . ."

". . . has not progressed beyond the dark ages."

Interesting hyperbole. Or perhaps you know nothing about the dark ages. In my part of the world, women are not considered chattel, as they were in the dark ages. Is that progress?

Scientists are not imprisoned or killed for challenging religious dogma. Is that progress?

Homosexuals can be open about their sexual preference without being killed by the state. Is that progress?

There is no institutionalized slavery. Is that progress?

Children are not sold into forced servitude. Is that progress?

People can practice different religions without fear. Is that progress?

Atheists are not burned at the stake. Is that progress?

I could go on and on.

As for who is to judge, I'll make that decision for myself and vote/act/advocate accordingly. If enough people agree with me, my view will have an impact. You can do the same for your point of view. Isn't pluralism grand? For me, a culture that treats women as equals is SUPERIOR to one that does not. A culture that promotes understanding is SUPERIOR to one that promotes hatred. A culture that recognizes the essential humanity of homosexuals is SUPERIOR to one that denies them such recognition. A culture that allows for differing religious beliefs is SUPERIOR to one that does not. A culture that promotes racial tolerance and equality is SUPERIOR to one that does not. A culture that promotes scientific progress is SUPERIOR to one that is based in superstition. A culture that promotes and values artistic expression and development is SUPERIOR to one that does not. This list goes on as well.

Finally, I believe that a culture which, as part of its fundamental nature, promotes the hatred and violent destruction of cultures which differ from it must be either changed or, failing that, destroyed (as was done in two separate instances in WWII).

[DrWeird]

49. "some cultures deserve to be destroyed"

Believe that if you want, but I wouldn't call it civilization.

[Blitz]

52. I would call it the very essence of civilization

If civilization is to survive and flourish, the cancerous, backwards, destructive elements that sometimes arise within it must, on occasion, be excised. Some cultures are simply not compatible with a healthy global society.

[Malva Zebrina]

7. this was done because Hillary went to Afganistan and Iraq recently

andnow, Bush, or most likely Rove, thinks that he has to send some "strong" woman over there too. Dole, of course, is only perceved as being strong. She is, actually quite stupid and inclined to be "trendy" saying things that are quite inane.

Maybe Laura thought she would be going also as a "member of the Bush family" LOl Wouldn't she just love to travel, eat and shop again on our money?

This dance of the stupid Bush family is amusing

[spooky3]

8. You'd be surprised how often cultures

in which one would bet women couldn't possibly succeed treat certain women better than they are treated in the US. One reason for this is that, in many cultures, a more relevant consideration than gender is perceived high expertise, educational or professional attainment. It "trumps" any sexism. So if the woman is believed by people in the host country to have these attributes, she is treated with respect based on these attributes. Iran is also, like many other countries, undergoing tremendous change. So I am not sure that Elizabeth Dole would be rejected there simply because she is a woman.

[arewethereyet]

10. oh come on why not ?

you KNOW Bob will be there with her and beat the snot out of any imam who gives her flack with his BAD arm !

[Yupster]

21. "How'd you like a pen in your neck"

One of the funniest lines from Saturday Night Lives many funny debate skits. That one was from 88 between Gore and Bush I. Al Franken played Pat Robertson.

[kodi]

17. as ex-head of the red cross she has useful insight in the situation

want to send over???????....... senator jim bunning instead? or rick man-on-dog santorum?

other than sending over a past or present head of fema, dole's a good choice, but also, i think bush is also giving her exposure for dole's run for the white house in 2008

[alcuno]

18. And...I believe that the Bush family member was Laura.

They said they wanted to send a member of the Bush family. Who else would it have been? She could then have visited Afghanistan like she said she wanted to do.

[Yupster]

32. Maybe Jenna and Barbra?

It could have been filmed as an episode of the "Simple Life."

Just kidding. I try to leave families alone, but couldn''t resist.

[goddess40]

34. Not Laura

I think the Bush member was Barbara---because every one loves her so. (Please note sarcasm.) Funny now that Iran has refused the visit there is no longer any mention of the Bush family member going.

[sleipnir]

20. They want it to fail, so they can have their imperialist war against Iran

Why have peace when you can have WAR!?? These neo-cons only think in terms of money and suffering. This is a shameless ploy to destroy any goodwill that could have been directed at Iran and helped to save humanity. Fuck them, those neo-cons, fuck em.

[Ernesto]

22. Look here folks, I love Hillerary, honestly,

But diplomacy is acheived by developing a dialog, not by embarassing the very people that you are trying to charm. The political leadership of Iran is not quite as liberal as the average DUer, if you haven't (duh) noticed. However, they are in charge of their own god damned country........ OK Sure, let's keep Iran on the "Axis of Evil" because they are not PC (as per some DUers) and we won't ever be troubled by having to listen to their views... Just what bushco needs, isolation and the cultivation of fear & hate and ultimately another 4 years in the white house..... YOU get what YOU deserve, I guess.

[carpetbagger]

24. Bushco tries to win U.S. political points over 50k deaths.

I guess the Messiah* didn't bother to read the part of the Bible where it says to just do a good thing, instead of shouting on the street corner about the thing you did.

What a joke.

[slinkerwink]

27. your post is simply sexist.

[Ernesto]

29. Do you understand the word: Diplomacy?

Look it up, Me thinks you would be wise to do so....

[nostamj]

31. isn't this more like the appointment of Kissinger

to the 9/11 Commission?

a gesture that is certain to be rebuked?

bushco can smirk and say 'gee whiz, we tried'..........

[Jacobin]

33. It's a typical repuke "in your face" insult

With apologies to the women of DU, the world is mostly not as advanced as the U.S. in terms of recognizing women's role in the world.

Hell, we've only had female suffrage for less than a hundred years. Give the freakin Muslims a chance to catch up for Chrissake.

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. No, the time to catch up is now

I am sick of catering to the racist or misogynistic whims of other nations. We do NOT tolerate abuse of women. We do NOT toleate genital mutilation. We do NOT tolerate slavery.

[FlaGranny]

36. We also supposedly do not tolerate

dictators. We do not tolerate disagreement with American values. We do not tolerate other countries having oil supplies that we want. We don't tolerate a lot of things. We do not tolerate so many things that are "unAmerican." But, in fact, we DO tolerate ALL these things, when it suits us. Not speaking personally, of course, but the country as a whole.

I don't like it any more than you do. I'm not saying any of those things should be accepted or tolerated at all, but sometimes if you want results, you don't throw up diplomatic obstacles and insults. Sometimes you give a little and try to get something in return - something that if we, as a country, do not learn will eventually do us in. There is no black and white - it's all shades of gray.

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. There is black and white

Some things you simply can't accept. If the radical Islamic nations wish to abuse women, gays, Jews or others, we can't accept that. We will deal with them because we must, but we will deal with them as we choose.

[Dookus]

40. exactly....

if next door neighbor were a racist, it wouldn't mean I'd be correct to avoid having black friends over.

We live by OUR ethics, not somebody else's.

[ProudGerman]

39. All of nothing eh?

If they don't instantly transform to 21st century western ideals, fuck 'em? We don't tolerate those things you mentioned in your post, guess what, they do. They also know we don't tolerate those things.

I certainly wouldn't have put a woman in charge of the delegation, but women would have been a big part of the delegation. Sort of send a message to them without slapping them in the face with the message. When trying to work with other people, especially people you are wary of but still desire a better working relationship, spitting on them is usually not the first move.

You can go ahead and call me sexist now.

[Muddleoftheroad]

43. To some extent yes

If they can't accept a female ambassador, then too fucking bad. We send one and they either meet with her or they do not.

That doesn't necessarily make you sexist, just overly tolerant of those you should not be.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

46. I'm with you ProudGerman

Its just not as important to me to send a message to Iran at this time about women's rights when they could be very useful to us if we could develop a working relationship.

I just don't equate sending a message about womens rights with what we have to lose if we were to refuse to ever meet with Iran unless they accept a female representative. Nothing gets accomplished.

[revcarol]

38. Sending Dole would encourage those young Iranians who have been

trying for years to get a more open and Democratic government in Iran, a movement Bush had almost totally destroyed by his "Axis of Evil" comments.They were giving up hope when even the U. S. lumped them in with the die-hard extremist mullahs.

While I am NOT a fan of Dole, this is a GOOD move.I only hope SHE doesn't botch it, because the mullahs will be trying to shoot down any improvement in relations with the U. S.

[cally]

42. Remember Madeline Albright???? Secretary of State!

By your sexist reasoning, she shoudn't have been Secretary of State. No country refused to interact with her and she was a great Secretary of State. Other countries know we have women in powerful postiions and act accordingly to our envoys.

By your reasoning, maybe any international company should not promote women into top positions because it will offend the sensibilities of sexist males. Sheesh. I'm always dismayed at the sexism displayed at DU by way too many supposedly progressive men.

[oneighty]

47. Likely not sexist.

Iranians are not stupid. They are aware of Senator Dole's politics and political connections and perhaps reject her on that basis alone, as do many of us.

180

[MrPrax]

48. Well the gambit worked...

Did anyone honestly think that the US would send aid to Bam...?

The best way fo the Bush admin to deal with this is to make the Iranians a offer they couldn't refuse...

Best part is that it is LIBERALS that will get on board for this reason...whereas the RW hates them anyway...

Are other countries playing politics with human tradegy on this issue BTW?

Nawh, but then again we are talking about a country that embargo'ed wheat to Ethopia and caused a famine to punish the --um--Marxist gov't back in the reagan era...