Deleted message

[Name removed]

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I've never been to NZ

But I have been to Canada. I felt it to be civilized and a nice place. Those Americans who have this strange notion that we are better than others are sadly misinformed.

But if Shrub gets another term, I'll be thinking of emigrating to NZ. Sounds like a wonderful place.

[leftofthedial]

2. more like the converse

"we're not an oasis of greatness in an ocean of misery"

Under the Bush GOPNAC Cabal, we are an oasis of misery in an ocean of (at least potential) greatness.

[spanone]

3. Welcome back PeteNYC

Most Americans have no perspective of America from over seas. We are a society that pretty much lives within ourselves. It is a huge world out there and America needs to be re-educated about it. We are but a small part of it in terms of humankind. The world will not tolerate totalitarianism from any nation. Now that we are realizing the Bush "humble" foreign policy he campaigned on, it is time for a real change.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcuno]

4. I saw a Brit on television from Heathrow the other day.

His response to all the flight cancellations? "It's the Americans. They're all paranoid." The US is becoming more and more of an international laughingstock everyday and the citizenry doesn't even know it.

[Cleita]

5. Not to burst your bubble, but how many minorities did you

see there? I'm only asking cause I don't know how they manage their immigration from third world countries. I do know that the white New Zealanders have had a spotty track record in their treatment of the native Maori population.

I know in this country many foreigners view of America back in the fifties and early sixties was what they saw in the movies of attractive well fed white families, with nice homes and well-mannered children. They never saw the tenements and hoods in the cities, the shanty towns in the south or the rural poverty of Appalachia. They never saw how the underclasses lived because no one showed them.

[wryter2000]

8. You're right and wrong

You won't see a lot of minority people, and their treatment of Maori hasn't been wonderful. However, it's better than our treatment of the Indians. But they don't allow immigration, period. A white person has no more chance of moving there than a person of color.

Hate to burst bubbles, but if Bush* wins in 2004, no one's moving to NZ unless they change their laws.

[wryter2000]

10. In fact,

I met two non-native Kiwis when I was there. One was a white man from England, and the other was a Hispanic woman from Southern California. Both were married to Kiwis. That's they only way you can move there.

[Gingersnap]

20. they are trying to attract more American investors/entrepreneurs

I don't know if these people are going to be allowed to become native citizens, but my husband gets recruitment stuff all the time from NZ, asking him to go there to be a doctor. And I read a magazine article--in the LA Times magazine some months back--about how all these Americans from the dotcom boom (who actually held onto some money or got out before it sank) are moving to Wellington in droves and "helping" the economy. Seems that the locals don't really want them there--buying up tons of land and building Mcmansions--but the govt. officials do. In fact a colleague of mine who is a dual French/British citizen lived and worked and owned property in Wellington for years. He was professor and is here now because he found a better university job.

So I don't think it's *impossible* for Americans to move there--I just think they are very selective.

edited to add info about the person I know who's lived in NZ as a foreigner

[Cleita]

11. If it's that idyllic let's hope they don't change their laws.

We could use them as a model instead and change ourselves from within to a better version.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChemEng]

15. Isn't all of New Zealand their ancestral land?

So how does that work? Do they get 10% back? 25%? 75% How do they determine which parts of NZ to give them?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChemEng]

17. I agree. Besides religion, land is the cause of more war

throughout history. How do we get off that treadmill?

[Cat Atomic]

6. Never been to NZ, but I've looked at the US from a few other

countries (France, Germany, Britain, Korea), and the US seems so... weird when you're outside of it. It really freaked me out the first time, because I wasn't expecting it.

You see and hear completely different perspectives on ideas that are just taken for granted back home. The media is more open. The people seem... I don't know... less scared or something.

[wryter2000]

7. I'm so jealous

New Zealand has got to be the most beautiful place on Earth and populated by wonderful people. But not too many people. It's heaven!

[Bridget Burke]

13. After all, it's Middle Earth...

Those of us who've seen the Lord of the Rings movies have seen the beautiful scenery--a good bit of it without computer augmentation.

More importantly, we've "met" some of the crazy Kiwis who made the film & thought they were pretty fine folk. Of course, people from all over took part in the project; they all love the place.

[mainer]

18. I loved it there too

I was there in October on business -- still wintertime, with snow flurries. I did see a few minority faces in Auckland -- mostly Asian immigrants from Hong Kong. Went to Auckland, Christchurch, and Wellington. The Air NZ jet I flew from Honolulu was covered with Lord of the Rings images and Air NZ's promotional campaign says "Come to Middle Earth," which I thought was pretty sweet. In Wellington, everyone asked me, "Have you seen Peter Jackson's new house yet?" It seems like everyone in Wellington has worked on that house.

They're very proud of the fact their Prime Minister is a woman. Delightful people all around.

Hilarious headline I saw in their local newspapers had to do with farmers protesting the "fart tax." I am not making this up. Farmers who own cattle have to pay a tax per head of cattle because of the cows' gaseous emissions into the atmosphere.

[readmylips]

19. When my friend from Kawait visited the USA...

she was shocked to find how poor average American women were, compared to Kawait women. Average Kawait women have household help. In the USA, most husbands don't even help, and women must go out and earn a living to support their families. She was surprised at how American women love and settle for low quality items. Even how stores in the USA wrap your every day purchases, embarassed her.

She was horrified to learn that in this country, the elderly are put away in institutions away from the family. She was afraid of the homeless she saw in the streets. She called them criminals. I told her that most homeless people are harmless but have mental problems, and most are veterans of wars. I didn't make things any better for her. She said that in the US, sick people and war veterans live out in the streets like a pack of rats. She went back Kawait with a sickening understanding of American human dignity, created by American government.

[Cleita]

21. Was she concerned about the quality of life the

household help had, who were no doubt women as well? Is she concerned about their families, or does she even know if they have children and husbands of their own? Coming from a culture where upper and middle class women had household help from the lower classes, I discovered that many of these matrons hadn't a clue that their maids also had children and husbands whom they cared for after they took care of their employer's family.

[fishguy]

22. I had a friend who moved there, he loves it!

He is a big, bald, black man.

[readmylips]

24. Household help are paid well...

and become part of the family forever. For my friend from Kawait, the respect and dignity of human life is the most important command of her religion.

[Cleita]

26. Part of the family....forever?

It sounds like institutionalized slavery to me. I can't imagine living in some other woman's house, taking care of her children, and cleaning her things. Maybe it would be more desirable as a choice between that and starvation, but when does a woman servant dream of her own home and children if she is doomed to be in someone else's house forever as "part of the family"?

I'll take the American system any day where you can hope for your own home, decorated with your furnishings, and being able to start your own family. That's why you go work everyday to realize these dreams even if you have to do your own housework. Everyone should clean up after themselves and help out with the maintenance anyway, and that includes all the men.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I had a kuwaiti neighbor this summer

and she and I were also shocked by the differences in our culture. I could never bring myself to wear a robe in 90 degree heat or give up my right to vote, but at least Kuwaiti (though not other nationalities living there) get $500 more per paycheck with each kid they have and they don't worry about their childrens' college funds at all.

[flaminbats]

23. I need a vacation..

New Zealand is well known for its nice climate and progressive politics. But I still have a deathly fear of EARTHQUAKES! But I'll always take that over tyranny. :scared:

[Mari333]

27. It took me 2 weeks when I returned from the Uk and Ireland

to assimilate back into US culture...it was shocking what the difference in life was. I dont think Ive ever really assimilated back.