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thebaghwan Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:37 PM
Original message
How should I reply to this right wing e-mail?
I think one of my customers added me to her distribution list and every now and then I get right wing messages from her. After this B.S. email I do intend to reply and would welcome some suggestions from my fellow DUers. Below starts her message.

we have all seen this before but doesnt hurt to see it again.......... if
you get it more than once, please forgive

D

>> This is one of the chain letters I agree with..............
>>
>> Story in the Tampa Paper
>>
>> Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??????
>> Think about it . . .
>>
>> All I have to say is, when will they do something about
>> MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't
>> celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry
>> Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas
vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone
so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
>>
>> This says it all!
>>
>> This is an editorial written by an
>> American citizen, published in a
>> Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
>>
>> IMMIGRANTS,
>> NOT AMERICANS,
>> MUST ADAPT.
>> I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
>> are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist
attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining
about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
>>
>I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there
are a few things that those who have recently come to
our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
>>
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, learn the language!
>>
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
>>
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY,our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
>>
>> If you agree -- pass this along;
>> if you don't agree -- delete it!
>>
>> AMEN
>>
>> I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends
>> (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later
>> get back to the complainers, lets all try,
>> please
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Sir_Shrek Donating Member (340 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. If she's a customer and you value her business...
I'd delete it and politely say nothing.

If you don't care or don't need it, respond as you wish.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. A customer?
If she's a customer and you value her business...

Forget her business.

I went into a garden shop over the summer and saw "The Christian Yellow Pages" in the shop. It seems that some "born-again Christian businessmen" set up this little publication so Christians would know where to shop... and where not to shop.

Needless to say, I won't be going back to that garden shop. But if they can be "exclusive" I'd say that they most definitely don't need my business, and I certainly don't need theirs either.
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Sir_Shrek Donating Member (340 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It sounds like...
...this is someone who patronizes the posters business, not the other way around.
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thebaghwan Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. That is correct, I own a small online leather business and she bought
something from me once. I do not value her business and will not sell to her again.

The Baghwan
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's such a cliche-laden lame argument, it's not worth
even responding to...just let it go. You can't answer insanity.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tell her...
...Your not interseted in these types of e-mails and that you are not a christian conservative afraid of immigrants or the secular nature of the Constitution and our Republic.

Tell her that her fear is her real enemy.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. The person who sent you that really isn't worth the effort it would
take to reply.

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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just as an aside
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 02:46 PM by Capn Sunshine
We spoke SPANISH in this continent first. But "our Euopeans" lost to "their europeans". I won't even mention the Native Americans great civilizations or legal precepts such as the Iriquois Confederations which we later adapted to the constitution.

In California, Spanish was the official legal language until 1849.

Then a bunch of guys from the East moved here, told us our architecture was ugly, planted grass everywhere , and forced us at gunpoint to change to english for our "own good".

This issue is still in transition here.

Bienvenidos a America Nuevo

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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. reply to her
that Fox owner Rupert Murdoch is an immigrant, and I'm sick of hearing his views on what is American and what isn't.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. She is very biased.
Tell her if she cannot accept other peoples beliefs and cultures that she should move out of the US herself.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. The whole In God We Trust stuff is false
It was put onto our money as our national motto only in the 1950s as a response to pressure from the red scare. Same with Under God in the pledge. I think Ben Franklin suggested that "Mind Your Business" be put on our money. We should have taken his suggestion.

TlalocW
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Just like WE adapted to the Native American culture, eh
nt
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I hear ya.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 02:54 PM by ronnykmarshall
BTW - Welcome to DU "theantichrist" we've been expecting you, Mr. Bush. :evilgrin:
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R3dD0g Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. You should respond
by adding the senders email to your 'blocked' list.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. The only people "complaining" are people who circulate these e-mails.
All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday?

I don't know where this person lives, but where I live people say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" and "Have a good Winter Break" and no one seems to feel particularly constrained.

Actually, I remember that about forty years ago there was something about "Merry Christmas" that offended some Christians because they questioned why it was customary to say "Happy Birthday" but not "Happy Christmas." I sort of remember that they felt it was some attempt to single out the Christian celebration as somehow different from "normal" celebrations. I don't really remember exactly what the problem was, but I do know that my devout Irish Catholic mother immediately insisted we all switch to saying "Happy Christmas." But I was a kid then. Now that I am an adult, I tend to think that some Christians rather enjoy being martyrs for their faith and that if no one is noticing them they work to find a way to make themselves into martyrs.

As for that Winter Break thing... funny how we also observe Sunday as a "day of rest" and the work and school years are pretty much structured around the Christian holy days. Our non-Christian students, for example, need to inform their instructors ahead of time that they are going to be absent for their religious holy days and they have to make up the work they miss in class. Tell you what. When they give a final exam on December 25, I'll be there. No problem! Will the Christians be willing to make up the work they missed? Seems that my holy days are a problem for some Christian instructors though. Now why is that?


This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

I would think it would be sufficient for anyone, native-born or not, to support the ideals expressed in the U.S. Constitution. That's all that new immigrants agree to do when they become citizens, and our "national identity" hasn't suffered for it in two hundred years (which BTW is only two centuries, not "centuries..." which implies a lot more than just two of them).

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

Hmmm.... it's MY country too, and I disagree. I have no intention of moving either.
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes. Snip this part...
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented

And ask for the "clear documentation". Also ask why "we" adopted this motto 175 years AFTER the founding of our Nation. Were the "christian men and women(ask for proof of the Founding Mothers while you're at it - I am especially interested on how the women VOTED at that time)" to busy preparing the "clear documentation" to get around to it?

Or this one...

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet

You're right! I sure wish Tim McVeigh would have taken your advice too!
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. here's an excellent response
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. There's also a version of this
on snopes -- http://www.snopes.com/rumors/american.htm

Do a reply all with part of the debunking of that p.o.s. and then the link to the whole thing.

Invariably these kinds of mass emailings are things that snopes has dealt with by now. And reply all is often sufficiently humiliating that you'll never again get another piece of crap like that again. It's worked for me.
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sluglas Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. If you agree -- pass this along. If you don't agree -- delete it!
I think a couple of that last few lines are probably there for a reason. She thinks differently from you. Let it go.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Got the exact same e-mail from my father. Had to reply.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 04:54 PM by sybylla
Here is my response, the long version. Feel free to use it as you wish. You'll need to edit it a bit to suit your needs. In fact, I edited it myself and turned it into an editorial I put in my local dem newsletter.

This is America?

Unfortunately, yes. These days there is a sad wind blowing in America, carrying with it the attitude of “I got mine, screw you,” from shore to shore, from border to border.

The people who succumb to this ill wind forget that this nation was founded on principles of equality, not “first come, first served.” They forget that their own immigrant ancestors often came over here with pennies in their pocket and lived with one or two families in run-down shacks too. They forget that their own immigrant ancestors were often able to send their children to a public school which taught or at least tutored in their first language, a luxury few children of immigrants are afforded today. They forget that these same immigrant ancestors, even with pennies in their pocket, came to communities in this country where they could read the news in their first language, speak to their neighbors in their first language and conduct business in their community in their first language without trouble. In fact, many communities in this state, including ********, produced newspapers in at least one another language until the time of the first or second world war. Am I now to believe this is un-American? Am I to believe that somehow granting the same courtesies, which my ancestors had, to immigrants here today is now somehow wrong and a threat to everything I believe? No, its just that ill wind. “I got my education and I’m a productive member of my community, screw you.”

As for the suggestion that immigration is the cause for the removal of Christianity from our “lives,” it is false. This country was founded upon the principles of religious freedom from day one. And for two hundred years the Supreme Court of this great land has ruled that religious freedom hinges upon, as stated in the Bill of Rights, the separation of church and state (a phrase coined by our founding fathers over 200 years ago) and thus requires the state to be absolutely neutral in matters of religion.

This means that no law shall dictate your beliefs or the manner of your religious celebration or ceremonies. No one with any power to do so can strip you of your job because of your beliefs, nor can they force you to give up saying “Bless You” when someone sneezes or prevent you from wishing a “Merry Christmas.” No where in the law are you restricted in your beliefs. But it also means no one can be forced to say “Under God” when they say the pledge, or “so help me God” when they swear an oath. It means that no version of the 10 commandments, nor the Koran, nor excerpts from the Baghivad Gita can appear on our classroom walls or on public display in our government building unless they appear for purely secular reasons as part of a purely secular display (historical context, ect.).

As for the pledge, it was written in the late 1800’s by a Baptist minister who never included a reference to God because he believed very strongly in the separation of church and state. It was only included during the Red Scare of the 50’s, which was also the same time the motto, “In God We Trust” was placed on our money. If you remember anything about the Red Scare, you may remember that people in a position to do so, like our Sen. McCarthy, used fear to convince the people of this country that we should trash the bill of rights in order to nail a few bad people. Sounds a lot like today, doesn’t it? In past times, the Christian fanatics used fear to get their religion on public property and in public institutions. People didn’t put up a fuss back then because they thought it wouldn’t affect them. They were Christian and they weren’t “commies” after all so it didn’t matter to them. That same ill wind that caused the Red Scare has returned. “I got my rights, screw you.”

Lastly, to say that America was founded as a Christian nation is to speak a lie. There is no mention of God or Christianity in neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights. Our founders were very clear on everything else specified in these documents. Why would they have been so careless to have left out mention of God and Christianity if we were, indeed, founded as a Christian nation? Our founders established The United States as a secular nation. They were men of many faiths including Christianity, Deism and Atheism, all sons and grand-sons of a “Christian” nation (Great Britian) who understood through their parents’ and grandparents’ experience the meaning of religious persecution and believed that only a secular government could prevent future strife and possibly a civil war. But you don’t have to take my word for it. Read the words of our founders, taken directly from their letters and works. Many of these quotes and can be found with a bibliography at http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

George Washington spoke pointed against religious bigotry and in support of the United States’ new secular government when he wrote to Moses Sexias, a Jew from New Jersey who had expressed concern for his religious freedom under the new government. Washington eased Mr. Sexias’ concerns when he replied that under the new government “all possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship and for happily the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.”

Moreover, under George Washington’s presidency, a treaty between the United States and the Muslim country of Tripoli was composed, then signed by President John Adams in 1797 which begins, “As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." James Madison.

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." James Madison

". . . Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." John Adams

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England." Benjamin Franklin

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. " Thomas Paine

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." Thomas Jefferson in his autobiography.

I humbly submit my response and hope you understand that I will never agree with the baseless arguments made in “This is America?” Arguments that are symptomatic of something I call the “look at the pretty birdie” syndrome. These arguments are designed to keep the citizens of this country too busy pointing fingers at each other and blaming everyone else for what’s wrong in the world so that they don’t take the time to see what is really happening to their dear country. There are people in power in America, including politicians, religious leaders and corporations, who are working hard to rob our nation blind and ensure there is nothing we can do about it. And when they have taken everything they can you can bet they will turn to us and say, “I got mine, screw you.”

Yeah, unfortunately, this is America.


on edit: you can even add the snotty like-it-or-delete-it message at the end.
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M0rpheus Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Wow! I will be borrowing this one if'n you don't mind...
I get freep spam in my inbox all day. Though, I would bet that if they got past the first paragraph , their little brains would explode!
Too... Many... Big... Words!!!:nuke:
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hilarious. And WE'RE called "angry?!?"
:wtf:

""In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

If I want to live in a country run by religion (and religious zealots) I'll move to Iran or something.



:eyes:

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