Tin Foil Hatters meeting: Photo analysis

[Cannikin]

I've been obsessing over a few details of this photo that bother me....I haven't had my oxycontin today, so bear with me.

First of all, he appears to me to be unconscious. How? How long had he been that way?

It looks like the soldier is getting his picture taken with him. He's holding him up with a black strap. Is he bound?

What is the black object on the ground near his head? A hat or hood?

What is Saddam wrapped in? It looks like a black sleeping bag to me. And at the far right (no pun) I see what looks like a rod with a hook at the end. It looks like something fisher..people(?) would use to haul a large fish aboard a boat. Then, in the lower right there is a gloved hand holding another copper colored rod. Its my guess its another hook.

I think they used them to hook the bound, unconscious Saddam out of the hole already packaged up. And the whole "I'm Saddam...I want to negotiate" and "President Bush sends his regards" is just another BS Jessica Lynch "went out fighting" story.

Ok..I'm done.

:tinfoilhat:

[Q3JR4]

1. I think you're right.

:tinfoilhat:

[arcane1]

2. one thing I've learned about this admin's MO

the more details and "color" they give to a story, the more likely it is utter bullshit

I believe they actually have Saddam in custody

but...

I believe nothing else they tell me about it


this photo does seem to support the notion that he was drugged and left there by the Kurds, for us to "find"


I wonder why the soldier's face is blurred, though? Do we know where this pic came from originally?

:shrug:

[tom_paine]

3. Agreed, arcane1

[Cannikin]

5. It was posted anonymously on military.com

[Cocoa]

57. right on about the "color"

I actually thought at first that the Bush in Iraq with turkey story was straightforward at first, but then they trotted out all these people talking about the "backstory" of the trip, like the fake story about the British Airways jet, and since then I'm convinced there's something bogus about that whole trip.

[KansDem]

4. He seems to have something above his left eye...

...and on his right cheek as well as at the end of his beard. There also appears to be a spot on the ground just in front of his mouth.

I have to admit, when I first saw this photo, I thought he'd vomited.

edited for clarity.

[Cannikin]

7. Does he have a wound in that spot in the later examination video?

[KansDem]

8. dunno...

Perhaps another DU could enlighten us? :shrug:

[tishaLA]

40. Yes he does, but...

in the "cleaned up"--post shave--pics, he no longer has the bruising/injury. If I had pics readily available, I'd post them, but it was something I noticed right away.

[Timefortruth]

12. It looks like the wound had a band aid on it when they pulled him out..

That wound didn't look new to me on the released photos and this may show that it received some treatment before the "capture." But the official story was that he got it being pulled out of the hole.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. i buy it hook line and sinker...absolutely what it is

[ewagner]

9. Tinfoil is actually quite stylish...

especially with this administration in command.

I think you're right. He was bound, drugged and left in the hole by the Kurds and they didn't tell us where he was until they got their three additional seats on the council.

the 'I am Saddam and I want to negotiate" and the "President Bush sends his regards" accounts are probably pure bullshit.

edited for html mistakes

[Greyskye]

10. Insulated gloves?

Is this copper rod being held by some sort of an insulated glove? Maybe the rod delivers an electric shock for the purpose of stunning the victim. If so, it could possible explain why it looks to me why he has blood in his mouth - he might have bitten his tongue when zapped. :shrug: :tinfoilhat:

[radwriter0555]

18. Good observation. the blood in the mouth and the video of the doc

investigating his mouth has been shown over and over.

[jayfish]

65. Could Have Been Checking To See If He Damaged Any Teeth...

from his jaws clenching together during an electric shock.

Jay

[louis-t]

11. I never believed the "bush sends his regards"...

or "I am Saddam and I am willing to negotiate" lines. I suppose they could be true. Or, b*sh may have hired a really good screenwriter to feed rove some quality sound bytes. Either way, we'll never know what the truth is as long as this morally devoid bunch is running things.

[patdem]

13. Hell, when I saw the glove and the 'pole' I though they were playing

sand hockey and just stumbled upon the bum? I could be wrong? :shrug:

[Timefortruth]

14. More from the tinfoil trenches.

Could the black object be a mask?

Can anyone blow up the photo into sections?

[jmowreader]

66. Looks like a PT cap

Part of your workout uniform (or PT uniform, for Physical Training) is a black knit cap. Why the soldier would need to take his PT cap off I don't know, but it looks like one.

[radwriter0555]

15. And his face is terribly red.

Personally, I believe that he's been in US custody since the 'war' broke out.

I believe the US factions had Iraqis holding on to Saddam, in that hell hole, and were found out by the Kurds, who didn't know he was in US 'custody' already.

The bushler regime was holding him for a far more opportunistic time to 'catch' him.

He was drugged or gassed so that he wouldn't be coherant when dragged out of that hole he was kept captive in.

[Junkdrawer]

16. Great Minds..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=992157&mesg_id=993737

[radwriter0555]

17. The KNEEPADS on the soldier to the top of the photo.

Saddam didn't climb out of that hole.

[DS1]

38. wow you're really good

!

[radwriter0555]

41. yeah, sharp as a basketball.

n/t

[Superfly]

60. They ALL wear kneepads...

it's part of the uniform for infantry soldiers. This is a general issue item

[librechik]

19. notice the glove at LR holding the metal rod

that's a cattle prod or baton held by someone outside the frame.

All reports say he was drugged when arrested. That's what it looks like.

My guess, a nerve gas or "sleepy gas" bomb went in first. Commandos in gas masks went down and bound and put a lifting rig on him (the white straps and black nylon) Then they hauled him up with a guy standing nearby with a pacifying rod in case he suddenly attacked.

[Cannikin]

20. I noticed on itv news, the right side had been cropped off.

http://www.itv.com/news/1858550.html

[TeeYiYi]

42. Good call . . .

Those copper hooks were cropped for a reason. Too damning. Kneepads are gone too.

This soldier makes me sick. Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel and then posing with your fake trophy.

Until he comes forward with the truth he won't be redeemed in my eyes (not that he cares what I think).
No wonder his face is photoshopped out. He should be ashamed.


TYY

[Timefortruth]

21. The wrist on the arm holding the rod has a large watch on,

what's that all about?

[Cannikin]

23. And those knee pads...how gay is that?

[Junkdrawer]

22. That's at odds with the OFFICIAL story...

Capture details


New details emerged Monday about Saddam's capture Saturday evening.

Soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division who participated in the raid said they were preparing to toss a grenade or fire into a hole they had uncovered -- standard procedure for their own safety -- when they saw a pair of upraised hands. (Gallery: Saddam's capture)

The hands belonged to a face -- the haggard, weary face of Saddam.

"I am Saddam Hussein," the bearded ex-leader told the soldiers. "I am president of Iraq. I want to negotiate."

The soldiers replied: "President Bush sends his regards."

More...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/15/sprj.irq.main/

The man in that picture doesn't look like he held his hands up for quite a while.

[ochazuke]

24. Wow! This is huge!

It puts the official story into doubt, and backs up the "Kurds what got 'im" story!

There's major 'splainin' to do. Will the media ignore it and it's implications?

[DUreader]

25. They Are Waiting For Something Really Huge

Just kidding.

Media to US Citizens: Fuck You!

[Military Brat]

26. I'm waiting for more anonymous photos to appear on the Net

Drip, drip, drip ... the story we hear is never the truth. If the blurred-face soldier weren't so slender, I would guess it was Rove
:evilgrin:

[Must_B_Free]

27. not sure this shows anything new

it looke like they are taking trophy shots for home... This could be when he is pulled out or after they have already subdued him and have packaged him for transport. No way to tell.

[Junkdrawer]

28. If you look closely, you can see the soldier's right hand supporting...

Saddam's head. (Only a thumb shows near Saddam's mouth.) Saddam is definitely drugged.

[SpiralHawk]

29. CBS news showed this image tonight

So they are taking it seriously as a valid image of Saddam's capture.

Gotta wonder about the one Mike Ruppert has on his site -- the photo with the drying meat and ripe figs.

Mightee peculiar, if you ask me.

[bobbyboucher]

33. What do you think about that photo

the one with the dates and the meat on Ruppert's site?

[bobbyboucher]

30. Can someone tell me how to post a picture?

I have an interesting one with regard ot this discussion.

[bobbyboucher]

32. Never mind,

the picture I have is the one mentioned to be on Ruppert's site.

[Timefortruth]

35. OK

Right click on the photo. A table will appear one of the options on that table is "properties" click on that. When the next tool bar appears "address" is on the list. Highlight the address, making sure to get all of it, then press "ctrl" and "c" at the same time. Copy it here by pressing "ctrl" and "v". I don't think I missed anything.

Good luck.

[rasputin1952]

31. Being a skeptic, I find many things with the admin's ...

explanation for what happened, pretty close to ludicrous. But as a skeptic, I have to look at the photo objectively.

Adjust:tinfoilhat:; So here I go with the picture:

The kneepads on the one soldier could have been scuffed up at any time prior to Saddam being hauled out of the hole.

The copper rod appears to be a standard issue grounding rod used with communications equipment and generators, etc. Of course, a lot of electricity could go either way, up or down, in 10# of copper. However, since these things are pretty long when assembled, I would suppose it was used to move stuff around and then probe for anything in the hole. The glove on the hand we can see, is not a standard issue glove, and certainly is not enough to protect an individual from some serious shock if electricity was present, especially since that watch would have drawn some off, and gotten a little warm.

The 'hook' behind Saddam appears to be bent over 'saw-grass' or another type of grassy vegetation.

While there is blood and a few cuts, it appears that they would have happened prior to his being hauled from the whole, as there is clotting evident. Some of the blood appears fresh, but that could have come from either new wounds, or the clots being rubbed or torn off during extraction.

The black object near his head appears to be a "watch cap", which one can pick up in a Dollar Sore anywhere on earth. They always shrink when you pop them off your head.

Saddam definitely appears sedated, or at the very least, extremely exhausted. But without a toxicology report, it is impossible to tell. I have seen people that have been arrested look the same way, it was brought on by extreme shock.

As for where and what Saddam was doing before his capture, speculation is rampant. I won't go there. The possibility exists he was in Iraqi hands all along, and was virtually a prisoner. then again, the possibility exists he was captured by Special Forces and held until an opportune time to expose him came around. I don't know, and apparently neither does anyone else.:shrug:

So, that's about it. Everything except the actual verbal exchange can be explained. Not really that much out of the ordinary, considering the situation.

remove :tinfoilhat:

O8)

[supercrash]

34. Found a few pictures...

Almost looks like a welding glove holding a fishing gaff

[supercrash]

36. Some more points

As for the knee pads...It appears that the guy was just on his knees, the "dirt" on his knee pads looks like the dirt on the ground, same whiteish grey color

And the "second gaff" behind the soldiers knee sure doesn't look like bent over grass, it appears that it is a stick with a hook on the end

And at first I thought the watch was a wrist compass, but it appears to have 2 hands...reading 1/4 after 1:00

And the "hat" on the ground does appear to be a hood, It even looks like there is a mouth hole in it(oval white circle)...but I could be all wrong

[DS1]

37. I, for one, don't buy it

His face is too clean and too colored for that sort of lighting.

[Emillereid]

39. Perhaps this was taken after Hussein was struck by

one of our soldiers -- was he knocked unconscious?

[TeeYiYi]

43. Third hook spotted . . .

Look in front of the middle soldier's foot and then follow it behind the kneeling soldier. Creepy.

TYY

[DUreader]

45. WOW! Good Eye, TYY!

[Junkdrawer]

46. There's a lot of detail in that image. Copy and paste into any...

photo editor and blow it up. If your using Windows, you can also use Accessories/Accessibility/Magnifier.

[rasputin1952]

51. That may well be a strap w/velcro on it to tie in the neck piece...

I'm not so sure it is a hook; just as I'm not sure it is a hook behind Saddam.

I hate bush too, but I want facts, and after blowing this pic up, there's really little to go on. Saddam is either drugged, or exhausted, could be either. They might have done almost anything to him. We need more pic's and info. One thing is for sure, there isn't any fight in him or that phony bravado that he and bush share.

O8)

[DUreader]

58. No, you can see the handle at the correct angle behind the kneeler

[Junkdrawer]

44. Tin Foil or not, as of 9:40 EST, 31/33 DUers agree with you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=994528

And how two think that the picture seems to support the official story is beyond me. :crazy:

[Matilda]

47. You people are so sharp.

A great piece of detective work - okay, there may be some other
explanations for some of the anomalies picked up, but I think
there's a helluva lot of question marks over the official story.

Trouble is, we're probably the only people who will ever know.
(Sigh).

[KoKo]

48. Yellow dates or hoods and hooks, we were lied to again. Feel it in my

bones. Thought so when it was reported. This picture makes me ill, though. As I posted on Junkdrawers Poll....I don't believe anything out of this Admin or Whore Press. I'm sick of Saddam, Wars and our troops dying. I'm sick of blood and guts and "silence" of Americans who should be in the streets protesting, but instead believe the lies about Bush's Wars that will go on forever.

This is a photo of a drugged man who was our Tool and we Propped him Up and then brought him down. How many deaths due to Gulf War Sydrome from
Iraq I and how much death and destruction and warped and torn minds and bodies from Iraq II to satisfy the Bush's.

It makes me sick.

[Junkdrawer]

49. As it does us all...As it does us all...

And if you say one word against them, the media comes down on you like a ton of bricks. Left wing hate speech don't cha know.

[Boo Boo]

50. Believe I read somewhere...

that he was gassed, like Putin tried to do with such disastrous results. They may have "negotiated" with him while getting set up for the gas. They had to haul him out of the hole if he was unconscious; the entrance was just a narrow vertical shaft.

[daleo]

52. Hmm, glove, black watch cap

I heard there was a white "Bronco" nearby. You don't think...

Seriously, sometimes the picture elements in the photos do have a sort of subliminal subtext, like the Norman Rockwell turkey in the turkey photo op. It's probably not always intentional, though.

[uncle ray]

53. i TRIED to believe

till i blew up the photo, and...nope. no hooks, its clear as day, the "pole" or whatever to the right, above the one being held, is clearly a tripod or some kind of stand, looks like the "hook" in a couple of instances is a strap on the soldiers clothing. you can see the shadow cast on the "pole"

what is interesting, at a quick glance, is that the blurring on the soldiers face is less pixelated than the rest of the photo, fwiw.

he is obviously ouf if it though, looks like his head is being supported by the soldier.

and i ask this, as another angle though...remember Full Metal Jacket...this is my rifle this is my gun, this ones for fightin...well, the soldiers "rifles", look to be worn thru the bluing to shiny metal? or desert dust? either way, i wonder if they look like serviceable rifles currently being used? i know, tinfoil, but look at the one closest to camera, looks pretty crappy at 200% zoom.

[grasswire]

54. okay...

...what's the gizmo between the feet of the furthermost left soldier? Some kind of a foot to something?

And look at the vegetation in the background. Does anyone have a photo of the outside of the hole, for comparison?

And is there a link to this photo anywhere?

[grasswire]

55. heads up

If there's a member of this military.com web site here, please check out the video clip they offer of "Saddam's Capture." It's under the Shock and Awe feature. And please report back to us.

[rman]

56. those are trivial details

what would be the consequences if it's a hat or a hood, a sleeping bag or not? whether the capture was easy or not? irrelevant.

What if the guy just isn't Saddam but one of the many doppelgangers we were told there are.

:aluminiumbucket:

[grasswire]

59. kick

keep it up

[bushisanidiot]

61. I Think The Black "hood" is What The Soldier Took Off His Own Head

to get a trophy pick with "Mr. Hussein". Kinda like when a cocky football star get's a touch down then takes off his helmet so everyone can see who he is.

[Cannikin]

62. He certainly doesn't look like he came out with his hands up.

[supercrash]

63. I don't think so...

The hood looks like it was just taken off of Saddam...Saddam's hair looks like it is all pulled straight up like a hat/hood was just pulled from his head and thrown to the ground next to him for the picture

[harmonyguy]

64. UPDATE - Larger version of photo located -nt

[Cannikin]

67. Friday night kick....

[loudnclear]

68. Just another kick. this is good stuff.

I hope some top notch journalist has seen these comments.