George Bush Sr Is No WWII Hero --John S. McDonald

[femmecahors]

From Richard Russell's Dow Theory Letter Website:

I get all kinds of e-mails, many of them quite enlightening.
The one below was amazing. I'm always fascinated to hear the
real story about politicians. The e-mail has the ring of truth
about it. Do you agree? 
R.R.:


George Bush Sr Is No WWII Hero 

By John S. McDonald
1-1-04



I am an 82 year old Navy pilot and I am outraged at
television's depiction of George Bush Sr.'s Pacific
experiences. Now, I hear a book is forthcoming -
Unbelievable!! I was in the Pacific at the same time as Bush
and flew the same Avenger airplane. A small room in the rear
of the Avenger was occupied by the radioman. The gunner went
through the room to get up to his turret. Both wore a harness
to which a chest type parachute could be attached - The gunner
had to come down out of the turret to put on his chute. Bush
said he was hit by anti-aircraft fire and the plane caught
fire. Bush's squadron was primarily used for patrol and saw
very little combat. Bush claimed he warned the crew, over the
intercom, to get out - got no answer and he could not yell
back because of the armor plate behind him. He decided they
were dead, so he bailed out. First, he failed to say he
switched his mike from radio to intercom. Then being blocked
by the armor is a bold faced lie! There was a sizable gap on
either side of the armor. I used this space to call to my crew
several times. The tough old Avenger simply did not catch
fire!! It had self sealing gas tanks. In six months of
operations, I never saw an Avenger catch fire. If the oil or
hydraulic systems were damaged, great clouds of white smoke
would stream out of the plane. I have no idea how many times i
saw planes returning to their carriers trailing smoke but
never a fire. What really happened? It was the pilots job to
hold the plane level and slow it down so the crew could get
out. Most certainly, the radioman was helping the gunner with
his chute when Bush panicked and left the plane. Then the
plane rolled into a dive giving the crew no chance. This story
went through the fleet and all the Avenger pilots i knew were
shocked at what they heard. I heard speculation of a
Courts-Martial. Bush was very young. By his own admission, he
reacted under stress. It is terrifying to have the cockpit
fill with smoke. Possibly, he can be excused for reacting to
fear and accepting it as another war time tragedy - but he has
been glorified on the History channel, a book is being
published, and worst of all, an aircraft carrier is to be
named for him. This is unbelievable!! Bush performed badly and
was certainly no hero. John S. McDonald

[bobbyboucher]

1. Who is this guy and is he credible?

I always wondered how the pilot was the only one who made it out alive. Another fraud. Is anything about the Bushes on the level?

[femmecahors]

7. I was surprised to see it on his site

Russsell was a WWII airman and while he seems to oppose the
economic and social policies of the administration and forsees
dire financial consequences from those policies; he is generally
fairly objective and I don't think he would have published this if it
have "the ring of truth about it."

[punpirate]

12. Some corroboration from...

... someone who was on the same mission:

http://www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm

Other corroboration comes from another pilot of an Avenger who has said that the plane was quite unstable without a pilot at the controls, and had a tendency to roll over, and that it was the obligation of the pilot to remain at the controls until the crewmen had exited the plane. Stated further that the operations manual of the plane specifically recommended water landings in emergencies, and the person found it odd that Bush did not attempt one when his people hadn't gotten out, because he'd done one a few months before.

[Cha]

2. Kick!

:kick:

Somehow I doubt that ol sack of shyte could have been a "hero", either!

[maveric]

3. I've heard another similar account from a flier that was nearby when...

this happened. I guess that Prescott's money (even the frozen assets under the sedition act), bought George I his heroism.

[DemoTex]

4. Thanks John S. McDonald

Bu$h-I does, indeed, suck. Why, as CIA Director, VP, and President, was GHWB not able to - ever - answer for the POW/MIAs in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia? Answer? It' a BFEE thing.

[hansberrym]

8. What is BFEE ?

N/t

[TolstoyAndy]

13. Bush Family Evil Empire n/t

.

[Atman]

5. You oughta LOVE this...

I recommend skipping to Chapter 6, about Bush's plane "downing" in the pacific. First hand reports from guys that were there.

-------------

Charpter - I - The House of Bush: Born in a Bank

Who is George Bush? How did he become the 41st U.S. President?

He is said to be a man of the "old establishment," who "chose to seek his fortune as an independent oilman...." @s1

In fact, Bush was never "independent." Every career step in his upward climb relied on his family's powerful associations. The Bush family joined the Eastern Establishment comparatively recently, and only as servitors. Their wealth and influence resulted from their loyalty to another, more powerful family, and their willingness to do anything to get ahead.

For what they did, Bush's forebears should have become very famous, or infamous. They remained obscure figures, managers from behind the scenes. But their actions--including his father's role as banker for Adolf Hitler--had tragic effects for the whole planet.

It was these services to his family's benefactors, which propelled George Bush to the top.

http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm

[proud patriot]

6. This same account is written in the book "Fortunate Son"

by James Hatfield "R.I.P" found in motel dead of apparent
suicide ......

[wunnerfulrobin]

9. You never know how you will react

when you're in a plane on fire. I have heard bush mention in several interviews how he felt about the other guys not making it, and if he could have held the plane longer. I'm not going to criticize someone who served in war. Next thing, I guess we'll be reading about Wesley Clark just getting a few flesh wounds and Al Gore only worked KP.

[thebigidea]

11. you should extend that policy to never criticizing a Bush ever

Hail Bush! HEROES ONE AND ALL!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[punpirate]

17. The book mentioned...

... is perhaps the third which mentions this experience, and with each new one, the story becomes more and more embellished. There are a number of curiosities about the story--Bush wasn't returned to his carrier for almost a month by the submarine which picked him up. The official Navy records show his story, but the incident intelligence forms are unsigned. The intelligence officer investigating interviewed no one else but the mission commander, who was not in a position to see what happened.

Rewriting history is an essential to furthering empire.

[DulceDecorum]

19. Dubya

only flunked out of the Texas National Guard.

[Cat Atomic]

32. He's being denounced for turning an act of cowardice into an

act of heroism. The man says plainly that he might forgive Bush if he was honest about the incident and admitted his panic. But instead, Bush chose to puff out his chest and play the hero. Much like his son.

[rasputin1952]

33. But when you've got eye witnesses...

the story gets more interesting. There are at least two people that only saw one 'chute, and then the Avenger rolled over and plunged into the sea; and it was NOT on fire, although there was smoke.

O8)

[aquart]

41. What fire?

The fire story is the sympathy ploy so you'll say exactly what you said.

The plane wasn't on fire. George is a Bush. George is lying.

George is lying to your face.

[Warren Stuart]

47. Cowardice in the face of the enemy

Is punishable by the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), I believe it carries the death penalty.

There should have been adequate selection and training to prevent cowards like Bush from endangering the lives of our servicemen.

Bush Sr. never should have been behind the controls in the first place, just like his son didn't deserve to be in the Texas Air National Guard.

[OldSoldier]

54. They didn't have the UCMJ in WWII

They used the Articles of War, and in both books cowardice before the enemy is punishable by death.

[bobbyboucher]

10. Can we find this McDonald guy?

Maybe, and get the truth out?

[Carni]

15. Herr Bush Sr's "rescue" was also filmed

I have suffered through that pile of crap about H.W. on CNN with Paula Zahn about three times now and there is actually film footage of Herr bush the first being "rescued" by the submarine (or ship or whatever...)that just happened by to save him after he bailed out on his crew. It's in black and white obviously. Now maybe it's just me but I have a REALLY hard time believing that films of that sort were made of every Tom Dick and Harry that were rescued during WW2. Kind of reminds me of the kind of photo ops that little W hads been showered with doesn't it?

[Emillereid]

16. A man named Hugh E. Scott came to my Moveon "Uncovered Party"

with the first chapter of a book he was writing called George W. Bush, The Phony Fighter Pilot. He was an ex-Republican who had served in Vietnam and was himself a pilot. He also claimed that 41 was a fraud and was going to prove it in his book: "As "Phony Fighter Pilot" will prove beyond all reasonable doubt, Bush 41 is aviation scum -- a Navy pilot who panicked in WW2 and bailed out of his damaged, three-man torpedo bomber before the other crew-members could jump, causing them to die at sea in the resulting crash." (page 3) He said he could prove it. I have his email address if anyone wants to know more about what he knows. I think he said the book is due out in May.

[Vadem]

26. Is he the son of Senator Hugh Scott from PA? He was ...

Repub (in my memory, which is not too reliable these days), although he was a liberal/moderate, whichever party he represented.

[Emillereid]

42. Don't know

[happyslug]

46. I do not know about kniship

But Senator Hugh Scott was a Republican Senator from Pennsylvania Last election 1970? Moderate, but still a Republican

[JesusNoRepublican]

50. Sen. Scott was Repub. and Navy WWII & Korea vet.

He was fairly liberal and served as Minority Whip, hen Minority leader, served from 1958 in Sen. through at least '76.

[KoKo]

27. I think that's believable. I remember Poppy as Pres. I could see him

as a Coward. Like all of them propped up by Wealth and Priviledge and can make up stories about themselves that no one will question. It's all covered up by their powerful friends.

Kevin Phillips pretty much said that in his comments about the Bush Dynasty on C-Span. They are all nothing but Oil, Intelligence/CIA/and Businessmen. No brains there but great connections. Philips even said that Poppy got strings pulled to get into the Navy and he was probably CIA recruited out of Yale when he joined and served in WWII.

I'm sure it was all covered up what he really did.

[Unknown Known]

18. Prescott Bush lied about his military honors too

He planted a fake story in his hometown paper about receiving - not just one - but THREE decorations. His hero status lasted only 4 weeks when his mother wrote a letter to the paper apologizing for the story and stating that her son was not a hero.

He became so disgraced after this, he had to move his family to St. Louis.

I think the bushes have a genetic predisposition for lying their asses off.

Editor State Journal:
A cable received from my son, Prescott S. Bush, brings word that he has not been decorated, as published in the papers a month ago. He feels dreadfully troubled that a letter, written in a spirit of fun, should have been misinterpreted. He says he is no hero and asks me to make explanations. I will appreciate your kindness in publishing this letter....

Flora Sheldon Bush.

Columbus, Sept. 5.@s7

Prescott Bush later claimed that he spent "about 10 or 11 weeks" in the area of combat in France. "We were under fire there.... It was quite exciting, and of course a wonderful experience." @s8

Prescott Bush was discharged in mid-1919, and returned for a short time to Columbus, Ohio. But his humiliation in his home town was so intense that he could no longer live there. The "war hero" story was henceforth not spoken of in his presence. Decades later, when he was an important, rich U.S. Senator, the story was whispered and puzzled over among the Congressmen.

Looking to be rescued from this ugly situation, Captain Bush went to the 1919 reunion of his Yale class in New Haven, Connecticut. Skull and Bones Patriarch Wallace Simmons, closely tied to the arms manufacturers, offered Prescott Bush a job in his St. Louis railroad equipment company. Bush took the offer and moved to St. Louis--and his destiny.

http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm

[CatWoman]

21. Dah-yum

These people are friggin unbelieveable :wow:

[priller]

24. This is mentioned in the new "American Dynasty" book also.

n/t

[bvar22]

20. Eye witness account:

<snip>
Chester Mierzejewski was the rear-facing gunner in Don Melvin's Grumman TBF Avenger when Bush was shot down. Being in the lead attack aircraft that Bush was following when he was hit gave Mierzejewski a clear view of the whole incident. In the run-up to the Republican national convention he grew increasingly concerned as Bush's wartime exploits were used as a vote catcher.

“That guy is not telling the truth,” he told The New York Post. Mierzejewski, a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, maintained that Bush's plane “was never on fire” and that “no smoke came out of the cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out...I was hoping to see some other parachutes. I never did. I saw the plane go down. I knew the guys were in it. It was a helpless feeling.”

Significantly Mierzejewski felt that by bailing out Bush might have cost the lives of William Little and John Delany, a good friend of his. It should be mentioned here that it was a standing order for naval aviators to try and ditch their planes in the sea and only to bail out if there was, as Bush claims, a fire on board. Gunner Lawrence Mueller, who was on the same mission, corroborates Mierzejewski's account. Mueller had kept a logbook in which he made notes as the squadron was debriefed after each mission. On September 2, 1944, the day Bush was shot down he wrote: “White and Delany presumed to have gone down with plane . . .no parachutes sighted except Bush's. . .” Mueller was also specific that no one had said anything about a fire on Bush's plane: £I would have put it in my log book” he told New York Post reporters in 1988.


<end>

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=58

I saw Mierzejewski in a television interview some years ago (can't remember which program). He was righteously pissed that history was being rewritten and Poppy was now being heralded as a hero. Most of the soldiers that served with Poppy considered him a coward, and shunned him after the bail out!

[candy331]

22. Have these people ever told

the truth? Damn, God must be on their side to tell such lies for so many years and to never be held accountable or is it now time for the father's sins to visit upon the son and the son to get his come up-pence.

[Vadem]

28. Mierzejewski---Polish, Jewish???? What else would you ...

expect from the elitist WASP George H.W. Bush?

[DrBB]

23. They're naming an aircraft carrier after a living president?

And a one-termer at that? WTF is up with that? Is this true?

[Cooley Hurd]

31. It's true - the USS George HW Bush

Navy Carrier Named in Honor of Former President

<snip>
From the Navy News Service

WASHINGTON (NNS) -- Secretary of the Navy Gordon England officially named the Navy's 10th Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, CVN 77, in honor of World War II naval aviator and former President of the United States George Herbert Walker Bush during a ceremony Dec. 9 at the Pentagon.

"USS George Herbert Walker Bush will serve as a worldwide symbol of our resolve," England said during the ceremony. "It will be a reminder of the 'Greatest Generation.'"
</snip>


The USS BFEE...

[leftchick]

44. That is sickening......

and isn't poppy looking more and more like Jim Carrey's Fire Marshal Bill?!? Frightening....

[SpiralHawk]

48. Will the ship fly the Skull & Bones?

Hmmmm - so Prescott was a member of Skull and Bones, as well.

This is ugly. So ugly.

Beware the Krypt that rules AmeriKKKa !

Jolly Roger, my ass.

[tinrobot]

37. USS Bill Clinton?

Is there going to be one?

What about a USS Jimmy Carter?

[Blitz]

40. There is a vessel named for Jimmy Carter

The SSN Jimmy Carter is the third and last Seawolf class nuclear attack submarine in the U.S. fleet. Carter, a graduate of the Naval Academy is the only U.S. President to have served on a submarine. Here's a picture:

[BiggJawn]

25. Poppy killed his Crew.

There's so much stuff out there about this, but since none of it is in Poppy's "oficial" Bio, it's "not true".

Of course NONE of the stuff in his bio is true.

[Boo Boo]

29. Bush Sr. is a coward

from a family of cowards. Scratch the surface of any bully and what do you find? A coward.

[cryofan]

30. And if not for the Internet, no one would have ever heard about this

I never even knew before now.

How did we ever get along without the Internet?

I still hold out high hopes for the Net and the way it can recreate a political community here in America. The only reason we ever got the gains we have today, like the 40 hour week, etc., is because of the political community that existed in small towns and mostly in urban neighborhoods.

Pay it forward!

[Demonaut]

34. I believe him

Cowardice is a bush family legacy it seems

[goforit]

35. The Capt. left the ship and his crew!

This is what he has done to this country his whole life!!!

A true Coward!!!

[Bozita]

36. The Bush family crest should have a bright yellow backdrop

Reality doesn't count; the public's view of reality counts for everything.

Amen.

[ComerPerro]

38. Correction - he is a CONSERVATIVE hero

That is, in a moment of crisis, when opportunity came knocking, he saw his chance and stepped forward to look out for number one. The Bushes have a well documented history of doing this, whether it be selling weapons to both sides during WWI, financially supporting Hitler and the Nazis before and during WWII, a pilot ditching a plane and crew to save himself, or a rich kid going AWOL during Vietnam because of a failed drug test so he could run for congress.

When the moment of truth comes, a hero will act to do what is right for his country and his countrymen. A conservative hero will do what is right for himself at the risk of others, and will usually end up rich in the end.

[JesusNoRepublican]

51. Amen on all counts, ComerPerro!

[alwynsw]

39. A small correction: There is NO George Bush senior in this picture

It's George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Aside from that, like his politics or not, I get a hero thing for anyone who fought in WWII. My pop, step pop, and pop-in-law all fought in WWII. Pop was an 8th AAF bomber pilot. The others were on PT boats in the Pacific. I have a WWII vet bias: I admit it.

Also, unless he was in Daddy Bush's plane itself at one time or another, hecannot speak authoritatively on it's equipment and specifications. All anyone has to do is check out the differences on almost any piece of WWII military wheeled, tracked, winged, or hulled weaponry. Many supposedly identical vehicles had manufacturing differences ranging from fractions of an inc to inches in tolerance. Maintenance crews and combat crew also routinely modified their vehicles to suit their needs or tastes.

I'm in no way defending Daddy Bush. I'm just questioning the validity of this email.

[jpgray]

45. There were plenty of witnesses

The Avenger was apparently only smoking, and only one chute ever left the plane. So either Bush is telling a lie, or three other veterans are involved in a lying plot. Take your pick.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. explain your handle ...what does it read?

[JesusNoRepublican]

52. It's tough to have to THINK.

"Aside from that, like his politics or not, I get a hero thing for anyone who fought in WWII."

That applies to all the war criminals on the OTHER SIDE as well. And it was their excuse for their war crimes! One isn't a HERO just for being in a fight. It has to be a just fight, you have have fight for the right cause, and you have to do ACCORDING TO THE RULES. And one rule is that you are no hero for saving YOUR OWN HIDE, without doing your best to save the hides of those who depend on you.

Sorry but G.W.H.Bush doesn't pass muster with THINKING men and women, including those who SERVED HONORABLY !

[0rganism]

43. Bush the Elder prototypes "cut-and-run" republican behavior

Also known as, "I've got mine, so y'all can go straight to hell" conservativism.

[UTUSN]

53. Have Sent This Whole Thread to Chucky ZAHN

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?11