Is the immigration issue a winner or loser for Dems?

[blondeatlast]

Should we just stay neutral?

[Cocoa]

1. dems should be in favor of reform

but they should demand real reform, and express skepticism of Bush's committment. They can list all of the other times he's said one thing and done another. There's no reason in the world to take this at face value.

[T Bone]

2. I was wondering that myself, more specifically

Bushco being the opportunists they are will spin any Democratic criticism of the plan as prejudice against immigrants. Just watch. Something tells me that is coming.

Now what this plan is REALLY about.

Possibly Homeland Security and of course that is the out-front cover story but, I think it is for giving cover to the rich Republicans who hire illegal immigrants at sub-minimum wage.

Remember the GOP is the CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVE party. Everything they do comes around to cheap and exploited labor sooner or later.
I saw an Maryland apple grower/processor on CBS Evening News tonight complaining that he can only hire illegal immigrants to work at his place because full citizenship Americans don't want the jobs. BULLSHIT. Of course the reporter would never ask him what he PAYS them, or mention that they are paid by piecework standards, rather than an hourly wage. A full American citizen usually knows the minimum wage and expects to be PAID that minimum wage.

Of course the guy who hires them doesn't have to pay SOCIAL SECURITY taxes for them now does he? That guy should be arrested. Instead the Bu$h Labor Department is probably giving him pointers on how to exploit his workers more fully.

That's what this really about IMHO. Cheap Labor. Legitimizing cheap and exploited labor and lowering the bar for all workers and their wages.

[Cleita]

3. Don't forget a supply of recruits for the military.

Whose to say that if you go to Jose the dishwasher and tell him that he can get his green card if he ups for a stint in the army it will be easier if they are already here. Don't they offer green cards to aliens who go into the military?

[blondeatlast]

6. I hadn't even thought of that. So true.

[Philostopher]

7. That was my second or third thought, too. n/t

[camero]

4. Wal-Mart cleaning companies also use illegals

Have to change the rules for them now.

[blondeatlast]

5. Indeed. But they will dress it up and sell it as "compassionate

I-can't-even-type-the-word-cause-it's-such-a-shamefaced-lie."

[_Jumper_]

8. It is a winner for us

In 1984 Raygun won 47% of the Hispanic vote and Asians used to vote Republican. That all changed in the 90's as the GOP became the anti-immigrant party. We will not lose votes because most whites that vote based on racial issues will vote Republican no matter what, due to other positions the Democratic Party takes. We will not lose anything but we will gain substantially by continuing to be the pro-immigrant party.

[doc03]

10. Please explain this!

Why should we be the (illegal) immagrant party? Race has nothing to
do with this, I don't care if they come from Finland. What reason
do we have them here for in the first place if it is not to drive wages down? I get sick of hearing the argument that Americans won't
do the work. In this area of Ohio, Walmart built a new distribution
center, all non-union scabs from the south and illegal workers. But
Cabelas sporting goods is building a new store and distribution center and is useing all local union labor. Why can they do it and
Walmart can't? There were thousands of people that applied for
jobs at the Walmart facility but they couldn't find enough people
locally to fill them. Why? They will not hire anyone that has ever
belonged to a union or they think may want to. I think if we would
oppose illegals and NAFTA that we could win back the red states and a lot of the south also. I am a steelworker and have been takeing concessions for the last 25 years in order to compete with $1 a day workers in China. Greenspan said we should look for a different job that we can't make good union wages in the free market. But when it comes to illegals they can work for lower wages because Americans won't do the job. Why can't the free market determine what a farm worker make? If Americans were paid a living wage to pick fruit or whatever they would do the job.

[_Jumper_]

11. They will be legal now

Moreover, there will be limits to the number of immigrants allowed to enter under the new system. In the long-term this is essentially just an increase in the amount of legal immigration, not a move that will allow anyone who can find a job to come here.

[doc03]

12. How about this!

If you employ an illegal worker you get fined $100,000 for each one.
The demand for them would dry up right now! The question, why is this not just a way to drive the wages down in this country? This is exactly why we are looseing middle America!

[JohnKleeb]

13. I agree with you

being pro immigrant helps, my family were immigrants in the dem party's golden days, back in the 30's, they were big time dems as they still are. We got to be a friend to the new immigrant who comes to our shores, I respect these people, they are like latter day versions of my ancestors who came from Ireland, Germany, Slovenia, and Slovakia. I am pro immigration.

[_Jumper_]

14. Amen

Too many people forget that we are all products of immigrantion.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Yes Jumper

[doc03]

15. Illegal

(Illegal) what part of that word can't people understand. It's like
Rush Limbaugh being hooked on prescription drugs. He didn't have
a prescription for 4000 pills a month. They were Illegal drugs!

[SHRED]

9. Let's pull our heads out

All you hear about, with Bush's amnesty plan, is the illegal Mexicans.

Wake up people.
High tech jobs, in the USA, have and are being lost to illegal immigrants who have overstayed their H1-B Visas.

This "amnesty" program hurts high paying positions also.
http://h1b.info/

Corporations are licking their lips and Bu$h INC. is about to deliver for them.