Racism? Or somebody being overly sensitive? Waddaya think?

[judge_smales]

TO SUSANNAH Park and most any Asian-American, the word "chink" is as hurtful as the n-word is to African-Americans.

So when Park, of West Philadelphia, found out about Chink's Steaks, in Wissinoming, she was horrified. Park called the restaurant owner and has since begun a campaign to change the shop's name.

She has gotten the support of the Anti-Defamation League and other community groups, who will meet tonight.

"Having a restaurant with that name...is telling the world that 'chink' is an appropriate term and that its not a racial slur," Park said. "It's also disregarding the pain that is associated with that word for people in the Asian community, how it dehumanizes us."

But Joseph Groh, owner of Chink's Steaks, on Torresdale Avenue near Benner Street, doesn't understand the hoopla and says changing the name would destroy the business.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

The rest is at: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/7667851.htm

[Voice_of_Europe]

1. It's not the words... it's the people who use them...

So don't banish the words... banish the people!

[Loonman]

2. That's a tough one to call

Let me tell a little story.

Last summer, I was in the package store buying beer and picking up a bottle of wine for one of my roommates to go with her dinner, since I was there. In the wine aisle, there were two women kicking up a trememdous stink about something. I was trying to remember whether my roommate wanted Merlot or something else, and I was catching little swatches of conversation from the angry women. Swatches like "racist", "terrible", "I'm-going-to-tell-the-owner-I'm-not-patronizing-his-store-after-I-give-him-a-piece-of-my-mind" sorta stuff.

After they left the section, I went to see what had caused such outrage and anger. Wine, wine and more wine. I got to where they were standing and looked at the bottles displayed there.

They said "Cordon Negro".

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

9. Stupid people really piss me off (n/t)

[TreasonousBastard]

14. heh

Anyone remember the flack a couple of years ago when some magazine used "niggardly"? That it's an Old English word derived from Scandinavian made no difference-- all hell broke loose.

[Loonman]

15. Yeah, archaic term too, you don't hear it much

$500 vocab word.

[judge_smales]

18. A teacher was just fired

from a public school in Misouri for using that word. Thisgs are definately getting out of hand.

[KansDem]

41. Hahaha...good one!

Since "niggardly" means "stingy" :D

[outinforce]

33. Actually, it was here in DC

and the person who used it (I think he was in the DC Government) was forced to resign or was fired from his job because of his lack of sensitivity.

I tend to avoid using that word precisely because it sound so much like a word that I find terribly offensive. One of the beauties of the English language is that there are many, many words to use. Instead of using "niggardly", I usually use "miserly".

[joeybee12]

3. How'd the guy get the nickname? I mean, in 1955--when he was six,

the word chink was widely recognized as deragotory back then,

[Superfly]

4. It's ridiculous...

Don't like how people use words, don't patronize their business. It's just a freaking word.

[_Jumper_]

29. Just a word?

Do you think the N-word is "just a word"?

[TexasMexican]

66. yes.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

5. totally lame!

What would she say to the oft-used phrase "chinks in one's armor"?

[IronLionZion]

6. Bullshit

There seems to be nothing racist about that place so why get offended?

Racist would be a sign that read: We don't serve no chinks!

[judge_smales]

7. Kinda my take too

And the steak place was ther for a long time w/ no problems.

[meegbear]

8. It would be ...

if it was accompanied by a caricature of a face with lines for eyes, buck teeth and a wide pointed hat.

If it just says Chink, then no.

[judge_smales]

10. or maybe if they sold

Chineese food. But they don't.

[rustydog]

11. Further proof of the "pussification"of America

on no, it offends me, it offends me.

[judge_smales]

16. Yo! RustyDog!!

The sig. is a scream!! It's on my cube wall and sure to piss off some
NeoCons today. Thanks!

Hope you don't mind, but I modified it thusly:

Our President has a first name, It's L-Y-I-N-G,
He also has a second name, it's B-A-S-T-A-R-D.
Oh, he loves to lie to us every day,
and if you ask me why I'll say:
Because George Bush surely has a way
with B-O-L-O-G-N-A.

Seems to flow a little better that way.

Thanks again.

[rustydog]

44. Thanks! I like the rewrite too, mind if i use it?

:bounce:

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

17. Yeah, I'm surprised

some of the hyper-offended sorts here (there are a few from what I've seen) haven't chastised me or called me a racist because I chose to use the Redskins helmet logo (in celebration of Joe Gibbs' return).

[RandomKoolzip]

19. A lot of the "PC gone too far" news you hear fro the right wing media

is just hype, or isolated incidents turned into major brou ha ha's for the sake of selling newspapers and energizing the softly-racist base of the republican party.

Right-wingers always make a big stink about Political Correctness straight-jacketting debate and discourse, but the majority of liberals really have bigger fish to fry than to get bunched panties over Resaturant names...the fact that this story is even in the press is an example of an isolated incident upsetting ONE person, which is now going to be played on Rush's show, and other RW pundits will get a hold of this too. They will use it as a club with which to attack ALL liberals for being "too PC," when in reality 99% of us give nary a shit.

There's as much "PC gone awry" in this country as there is communism. (i.e. almost none, and it doesn't pose a threat anyways....)

[_Jumper_]

30. Good post!

:toast:

[economic justice]

34. Not just the right

As a black guy who is sick to death of being told what a victim I am by my so-called "leaders"....I disagree, respectfully.

[blondeatlast]

43. Well said. Thanks.

[kiahzero]

39. I'd think you'd simply be ashamed to associate yourself with them

Given the way that they inhale vigorously, year after year.... then again, I'm not complaining - I pretty much hate football, so it's nice that I never have to live with the wall-to-wall coverage once the post-season starts.

:D

</tangent>

[_Jumper_]

28. So would you approve of a restaurant that used a slur against YOUR group?

?

[economic justice]

38. Nobody

Nobody has a right to not ever be offended. An "offensive-free" society would be have to be a totalitarian police state just to police the "offensiveness"! If everyone was offended by everything that could offend them, and tried to force changes due to their feeling offended....sheesh....where does it end?

Chink's is a Philly institution!

[kiahzero]

40. Depends...

Let's say somebody opened up a restaurant in Salem, with some sort of punny "witch-burning" type name... nothing comes to mind offhand. I'd think it was funny (in the same sense that I think a seafood restaurant named "The Jesus Fishery" would be awesome).

Now, let's say someone opened up a restaurant, with a similar themed name, and advocated that non-Christians be taken to the stake set up out back.

There's a difference.

[salin]

64. er

given the conversation... interesting word choice - not wimpy, not wussie, but ... so - be offended and intentionally offend others. Guess it then becomes a wash - eh? :shrug:

[pretzel4gore]

12. aha! now can see where g.bush coming from...

and why one must overlook the 'errors' on the road to liberal free world.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. That is a tough call.

I guess we should get Spic 'n Span off the shelves, too. Or did we already? Haven't noticed.

It is a problem when real words are also invectives. I suppose at some point we have to stop looking at just the words and look at what's behind them, who's saying them, and why.

[outinforce]

20. I Would Be TERRIBLY Offended

Why, I think the Susannah Park has every right to be offended by the use of the word "Chink" in the name of a restaurant that is open to the public.

Some of my ancestors were Germans, and I know I get offended every time I see a restaurant serving "saurkraut". I mean, can you get any more offensive than that -- to use a word that causes those of us of German extraction great pain (k---t), and then to couple it with another word that suggests that we are all "sour". I complain whenever I see that word!

And I happen to be white, and much of my background is anglo-saxon, so I get really incensed whenever I happen to see the word "wasp" used to describe a flying, stinging insect. I mean, it just demeans all us wasps so much! It denegrates our rich, cultural heritage to see the word we use (with pride) to describe ourselves used to describe a flying insect -- especially when a good, alternative word (hornet) is available.

[Superfly]

21. Being offended is your right

but that does not give license to use that to bend the rights of others.

[outinforce]

22. Being Offended is Certainly My Right

And I thought the US Constitution (or perhaps it is the Bill of Rights or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) gave me the RIGHT not to be offended!!!

Doesn't "the pursuit of happiness" give me the right not to be offended?

[fob]

48. Just so it's clear(joking aside), you have brought up THE point.

No one has the right to be offended or not offended, as you point out one only has the right to the PURSUIT of happiness. Actual happiness is not codified. If you are offended and pursuing a name change will make you happy, go for it. But others will pursue keeping the name and may be happy to have you seem like a loon in the process.

fob - pursuing no more bush* in 2004 = HAPPINESS!

[skypilot]

23. I'm pretty sure that "outinforce" was...

...being facetious. Anyway, what should we do with a place called "Cracker Barrel".

[outinforce]

24. Don't Get Me Started!

"Cracker Barrel"?

Are you kidding?

Don't get me started!

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

25. LOL.

That's a good one.

:D

[mitchum]

69. And I hate people who have guinea pigs!

[Moderator]

26. judge_smales

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you

DU Moderator

[ermoore]

27. Overly Sensitive.

The name doesn't have anything to do with the slur.

[economic justice]

31. PC run amok

"Opened in 1949 by the late Samuel "Chink" Sherman, the steak shop has become a neighborhood legend. Voted Best of Philly for cheesesteaks by Philly Magazine in 2002, Chink's is known to locals as one of the best cheesesteak shops in the city."

-snip-

"It's been here 55 years and no one has ever questioned it," said Groh, 41. "Everybody's welcome here. I know there's a lot of racist people in the world but I'm not one of them."


This kind of thing disturbs me. There is nothing that says a person who might be offended has a right NOT TO BE. Many things offend MANY of us, but we don't go around whining about it being "offensive"....and I say that as a black guy who has plenty to be "offended" of if I so chose to be. (Which I most often do not)...

[MrSlayer]

32. Overly sensitive and stupid to boot.

[Cleita]

35. Margaret Cho said it best when someone called

her a 'Chink'. "Hey, I'm a 'Gook'", she said. If you wanna insult me then get the word right!

[mrgorth]

36. DAMMIT!

These people give us bad names. Now I have to call Chink's and offer my support.

[waltisfrozen]

37. I would say "overly sensitive"

It would be one thing if Chink's Steakhouse opened today, but unless the word "Chink" is being used as a slur, I don't think it's that big a deal. It would probably be a good idea for them to hand up a disclaimer of some sort in the restaurant to explain the name though.

[blondeatlast]

45. Welcome to DU! Is that your site in your sigline?

I gave it a glance, it's great!

:toast:

[Alenne]

42. Since I am not Asian

I will not say this person is being overly sensitive because I don't know how she feels. I'm sure the fact that he was given his nickname because of his slanted eyes doesn't make her feel any better.

If she feels it is worth fighting for then she should go for it.

[spooky3]

68. I agree with you.

[sendero]

46. These kind of folks...

... (who would fuss about a restaurant name) give all the well-meaning folks out there who are trying to stem real racism a bad name.

It's hard to understand where these people are coming from. With all the real problems in this country to address they are sadly misdirected.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rustydog]

49. Change it to:

kiss my ass steak house.

[DrWeird]

51. Mmmm, sounds scrumptious.

I'm sure that would attract a lot of business.

[northzax]

52. what about NWA?

anyway, I remember a story meybe 15 years ago when AMC (then the parent of JEEP) sued some guy who owned a restaurant named "Jeep's" for trademark infringement. He did finally win after demonstrating that he'd had the nickname "Jeep" since WWII.

While I think that you should, in fact, be able ot name your business anything you want, I also agree with the lawsuit against the Redskins, since the law clealy states that you cannot copywrite a derogatory term.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[economic justice]

53. So....

If someone is offended by a name.....change the name?? Where does it all stop? Is it written somewhere that nobody should ever be offended by anything? If they're offended - why can't they take a deep breath, sigh, cuss, whatever? Why do they feel that if THEY'RE offended then something's gotta change so they won't be offended? Again, where does it all stop????

[sid dicious]

56. Nevermind

Someone actually replied to one of your posts, finally.

[economic justice]

58. ?????

Where did that come from?
edit: Thanks for changing your post....there's a difference between finding offense in things that aren't there -- and a blatant one-on-one personal attack such as your first post.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[economic justice]

65. The difference

The difference is that the subject title would have been MEANT to offend. The restaurant name was chosen in 1949 from the founder's nickname. To me, that's a big difference.

[sid dicious]

57. You're right about that!

I would probably be standing in line to try one. With a name like that you know they've gotta have some good food!

[Logansquare]

50. Well, he probably got the nickname

the same way some Hispanic men used to get the nickname "Chino," because a friend thought he looked Asian. If that's the genesis of the name, then it is offensive. Let me put it this way, if there was a store called 'Coon's and the logo was a racoon, and it was obvious the theme had always been racoons and the typical southern pronounciation thereof--not offensive. If it was called 'Coon's because the original white proprietor had a dark complexion and his friends (in an earlier openly racist time) called him "Coon," then the business name is definitely offensive.

That being said, I'm not sure if its worth Ms. Park's time or energy to attack this place. If it went to a national chain, yes; as a local restaurant, perhaps just let it die a natural death.

[Sir_Shrek]

54. Dumb

Overreaction

[Barkley]

55. The Fightin' Whities

How can they win if they can't jump?



About the Fighting Whites

The Fighting Whites basketball team was organized in early February (2002) by a group of Native American and non-Indian students of the University of Northern Colorado with the intent of playing intramural basketball. We came up with the "Fighting Whites" logo and slogan to have a little satirical fun and to deliver a simple, sincere, message about ethnic stereotyping. Since March 6, when our campus newspaper first reported on the "Fighting Whites", we have been launched into the national spotlight, propelled by a national debate over stereotyping American Indians in sports symbolism.
Our objective as students was to make a straightforward statement using humor; to promote cultural awareness through satire. Now that national attention has come to us, we hope that our message will reach a wider audience. As a part of our involvement in this ongoing issue, we have formed the Fighting Whites Scholarship Fund, Inc., a non-profit organization, the profits of which will go entirely to support the education of Native American students.
Written by Ryan White, John Messner, Charles Cuny

http://www.fightingwhites.org/aboutus.aspx

[corporatewhore]

59. Could chink be a name or a nickname of the orginal owner

I mean i totally would get mad if a club was called Ni!_?z or something like that

[trof]

61. chink: A narrow opening, such as a crack or fissure.

What's the problem?
Aw hell, let's all go for chink food.
;-)

[theboss]

63. I miss the old nicknames.

My grandfather grew up in an era where men had great nicknames. All his friends had great names:

He was WildMan; He had a brother Grasshopper, friends Pal, Ace, Big Coke, Little Coke, Patch-Eye Dan, Pete the Greek, Keyhole, Camel, Sonny, Cheechie, Brownie, Dishpan Dick, and, yes, Faggots Cooper. Okay, that last one may be a little over the top. But he also had a brother his nickname was a word in a Calabrese dialect for "Shitty Pants." That word is on his tombstone now. I am not making this up.

A nickname is between a man (or woman) and his friends. Chinks' friends are apparently all of Philly. This woman is not a friend so it is none of her damn business.

[RobinA]

71. Funny Nicknames

Had a Hispanic friend in college whose nickname was Spic. That was back in the bad old '70s when people weren't looking for reasons to be offended. He didn't seem to have a problem with it and was really quite well liked. He had a friend nicknamed Dogshit, who also managed to not be offended. Everybody in that group had a nickname, and all recalled some hilarious, mostly drunken, happening when they all lived in the same dorm freshman year.

My Chinese friend used to laugh at the way her eyes would "Chink up" when she got high. She coined the phrase. Words only have as much power as you let them have.

[TheDonkey]

67. A hard call

Chink is an acutal word as well as chinking and they were not created with racial bigotry in mind.

Chink's restraunt would definetly offend me as I passed by it. But it's hard to say if legally the name should be changed. IMO legally of course no, but I would wish the owner could consider changing the name to something less hurtful.

Perhaps petitions and coverage can expose what the public thinks about the name and the community.

[Kinkistyle]

70. A Chink in the Armor.

I used to cringe when I heard that expression because of the epithet, but I accepted it as a part of the English language that preceded the epithet and has no defamatory definition whatsoever. Same with the word "niggardly". I mean, if the restaurant had an "Oriental" theme with a little caricature of a buck-toothed "Hop-Sing" type character, I'd be insulted, but not in this case.

In any event, all the Jewish folks I know are rather fond of the Chinese (especially the food)