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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:06 PM
Original message
How do you feel about Kenny G?
Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 11:22 PM by coloradodem2004
I ask this question because I found an essay by a jazz guitarist by the name of Pat Metheny that was pretty scathing of him. I don't disagree. His music is among the most banal I have ever heard. But I figured I would show you.


Pat's Answer: Kenny G is not a musician I really had much of an opinion about at all until recently. There was not much about the way he played that interested me one way or the other either live or on records. I first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with Jeff Lorber when they opened a concert for my band. My impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax players of that time, like Grover Washington or David Sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music. But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, play horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.
<snip>

And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisers and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. there must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.
<snip>


Not long ago, Kenny G put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong record, the track "What a wonderful world". With this single move, Kenny G became one of the few people on earth I can say that I really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.
<snip>

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo-bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, shit all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. By disrespecting Louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can be, Kenny G has created a new low point in modern culture - something that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. We ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.
<snip>

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl

I have had some exposure to jazz and I find it quite enjoyable, when it is done right. My dad is rather fond of jazz and while he listens to the awful smooth "jazz" station, he does have some good jazz cd's particularly by Ray Charles, Charlie Parker, and Miles Davis. I have actually listened to "Birth of the Cool" a few times. Great album by Miles Davis. It just irritates me that a style of music that is known for brimming with such creativity has been reduced to banal crap, much like most music and I see Kenny G as the epitome of this. Give me your thoughts.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kenny G is like jazz, only banal.
n/t
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. My first thought is you need to edit that down to 4 paragraphs
Copywrite rules..

And I agree 100% with Metheny on this. I wouldn't ever call Kenny G jazz...formula crap is ok in rock, country and other genres but it's a very insult to the notion of jazz...I avoid Kenny G unless I am in need of sleep...I liken his pablum pedestrian music to a warm enema.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kenny G is the Pat Boone of jazz.
Simple as that.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Having seen Metheny live
I am inclined to agree with him.
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I have never had the pleasure of hearing or seeing him.
Was he good? He sounds interesting and he seems to have real artisitc integrity.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I went on a whim one evening
I loved "Last Train Home" as a wee one and enjoyed his more complex records when I started actually playing jazz. I hadn't thought about him in a few years, but he showed up at a small theater one evening and I impulsively went. I was blown away by his technique, especially as I was just starting to play guitar. Incredible musician. Check out his albums.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Never paid him much mind
He's a lightweight, and his stuff is listenable but not inspiring, but I'm with Metheny on the topic of musical necrophilia. It never ceases to freak me out. It's far worse than movie colorization. At least colorization brought in enough money to preserve the original movies, many of which had been nearing complete loss. But vanity overdubs of the recordings of great artists is beyond my comprehension. I can forgive Natalie Cole for having emotional issues about her father's death, but Kenny G?

I also wonder how Kenny G. has gotten to be so popular. His stuff just isn't all that great. Like I said, it's OK, but his success is inexplicable, especially with so many inspired and inspiring jazz artists around -- like Pat Metheny.

Much as I wish there were "depth pills" a shallow artist could take, they don't exist, and even LSD was a bitter failure in that regard. It's a strange world in which the noodlers can become multi-millionaires and the artists who will be revered and studied 300 years from now can barely scrape by.

--bkl

PS: Incidentally, if that article is copyrighted, you should cut it to 4 or maybe 5 paragraphs and let the link do the rest. It's actually a formal rule here, and it keeps the Copyright Police off the backs of Skinner, Earl and Elad.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. how Kenny G. has gotten to be so popular...
IIRC, heard it on the grapevine that his uncle has a large $take in $tarbuck$ and threw LOT$ of $$$$ into promo and other nece$$itie$.

He, like *dimwit dauphin, accurately reflects the appalling "dumbing down" of American perceptions. I find Pat's assessment rather restrained and MUCH TOO KIND.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Man, I'm sending that to a bunch of friends!
"lame-ass, jive, pseudo-bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing" HAHAHA!

For that comment alone, I forgive Metheny for hurting my ears during his tour following the release of "Song X". (It was cool seeing Ornette Coleman, though.)

As a saxophonist, I can honestly say that I can fart better than Kenny G can play. He's a disgrace.
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I thought that it was interesting.
That's why I posted it here.
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Painful...who's worst him or John Tush?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. well, i've listed to some of pat metheny's work.
his stuff ain't nothing to write home about either. yawn.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. when he did that "duet" with Louis Armstrong . . .
I almost puked . . . talk about sacrilege . . .Kenny G is to jazz what the Partridge Family is to rock & roll . . .
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. NO SOUL to his music...
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. This Happened in 2000!
Pat Metheny is from the same city I am - even taught my brother for a while. This piece was inspired by a question during a interview on Polish TV, and he followed it up with remarks on his website, http://www.patmethenygroup.com
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bonemachine Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Damn!
That is pretty scathing :)
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. A talentless, mulleted twat who is going to music hell.....
That about sums it up.

P.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. Should be charged for musical crimes against humanity
ASAP.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. he seemed to describe the situation quite well
arrogance and mediocrity DO seem to go hand in hand. Metheny is talented and usually has amazing players behind him. Personally I prefer Bela Fleck who has more bite, but....
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kenny G-the MG-42 of the Saxophone.
Both can "fire" 1200 rounds per minute.

He reminds me of a hack "Christian musician" from about 20 years ago by the name of Phil Driscoll. Phil's schtick was trumpet playing though an Echoplex that was set so "fat" that he could blow a triplet and it would carry for 1/2 an hour...Oh, he was bald on top and long and frizzy on the back and sides, too...looked like Bozo...
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. He did the special appearance at the opening of the record store
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 10:41 AM by fudge stripe cookays
where I worked (Sound Warehouse) in 1987, at the height of his annoyingness.

I was filling helium balloons in the front of the store (in between drags of it where I would imitate various little people characters), when a manager came up and said, "Ya wanna come meet Kenny?"

"Ugh," I said, "No way!" (sounding remarkably like Herve Villechaize)

I think Moe Berg from The Pursuit of Happiness said it well when he described the Freeper transformation:

"We like rap, and funk, and Marley and the Wailers,
but when we hit 30 it's Kenny G and James Taylor."
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I thought that the height of his annoyingness only started then.
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 10:49 AM by coloradodem2004
It continues to now. I definitely see what you mean about the transformation. To stand up for JT, he at least wrote some good songs like "Fire and Rain" and a couple others. Though, it is generally not my cup of tea.

The thing is, my mother was that way from birth. I started out that way with music, because she made me listen to it, but by the time I was 14 or 15, I went through it in reverse, and I sure as hell don't plan on going back to that when I am 30.


BTW, is that a book you were referring to about the Freeper transformation.
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regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. "He had major rhythmic problems and
and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble "

Ouch. This almost exactly describes my improvisational ability.

I saw Kenny G open up for Miles around 1989....he was boring/insipid, but I don't remember being particularly offended.
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Miles Davis?
God what a mismatch. One of the most talented players of the Jazz genre versus one of the least talented.
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