Anyone had experience living out of a car?

[Ladyhawk]

I'm thinking about selling most of what I own, putting the rest into storage and living out of my car. I am tired of having to suck up to my religious reich, Rush Limbaugh-loving family. I am truly wondering if having a roof over my head is worth the constant strain of having to deal with these people.

As ugly as it sounds, I don't like my mother and brother. I don't like being around them. I don't like talking to them. I don't like their "morals." I don't like them as people. I could exhaust you with details of the kinds of things they have done, but I won't. Let's just say that my mother has harbored fugitives (in the name of Christ, of course) and my brother thinks it's cool to torture animals.

It's my birthday this week. My mother wants the whole family to go up to Pinecrest Lake and "celebrate." I don't feel like celebrating. Sue me.

So, if you've lived out of your car, can you give me some pointers? Where can I find showers and toilets easily? What can I do about food? Is there a way to heat frozen items in a car? How can I shuffle my parking so as not to be harassed by cops? How can I get Medi-Cal to give me more pain pills because I'm sure the back problems will get worse.

[imhotep]

1. I used to

heat up cold food on the engine of a hummvee while in the army. The city recreation center probably has showers you can use.

[Cha]

2. How will you work on your computer!?

I lived in my van in Cal and Hawaii but this was in the '80's and '90's for a year a piece!

Saved on rent, though!

And I was fortunate to have found property where the cops didn't bother me!

It got old after a while but was fun to start with! :-)
Good Luck!

[MiltonLeBerle]

3. The best public toilets are in hotels, preferably 4-star hotels.

free showers can be had at a lot of beaches.

I'm not reccomending or endorsing the move to the car, just providing you with some info.
But- I gotta ask- what kind of car, how old are you, and what kind of income do you have, or expect to have, while auto-dwelling?

[MissouriTeacher]

4. Ever thought of...

just getting your own apartment? :shrug:

[wryter2000]

5. Isn't there any other option for you?

How can you get a job if you don't have an address? Don't you have any friends or other family who might give you a place to stay? Can you rent a room in someone's house? How about exchanging help/housekeeping/errands with an older person in exchange for a room?

There are good churches in the world. If you're a believer, find a good church and see if the congregation can hook you up with someone with an empty room that you could pay for with work.

[barbaraann]

6. I've been homeless and without food.

And I advise against it but there is a book "Homeless Survival Guide" for sale on amazon that might help if you decide to do it.

Don't give up on your family. Two of my three rightwing brothers have seen the light and the other one is close.

[Nay]

7. If you are truly serious and the car isn't a total junker,

trade the car in for a van or a truck camper unit. This will make your life much easier.

At the risk of seeming too nosy, how much $$ do you have to work with, and how are you using it now? The Tightwad Gazette books are invaluable sources for living very cheaply.

That said, I agree with the above folks who ask if you can't rent a room with a friend for a while, or find an inexpensive boarding house.

[cprise]

8. Get some kind of job and some roommates

If you end up without an address then you're screwed. Avoid it!

[amazona]

26. I don't think she can get a job with her health issues

I see three problems here --

1. no one wanting her on their health insurance plan so she can't get a good job

2. the total exhaustion that comes from chronic fatigue (when one of my relative's suffering was at its height, she could only stay awake for 2 hours at a time) so she would be fired anyway,

3. possible loss or interruption of her disability benefits. It is hard to get disability in the first place -- the relative who couldn't stay awake was disabled for years without being able to ever get benefits -- so I don't think this poster should do anything to upset the applecart.

Roommates might or might not work. They must be trustworthy and honest. Too many times only the most conscientious person ends up paying the rent, utilities, etc. so it is just cheaper to do without roommates in the end, as they turn into free-loaders.

She can get two addresses very easily -- her main mailbox which she should check every day should be at a nearby United States Post Office where mailboxes are provided very cheaply. She can get her disability sent to a P.O. box, they do it all the time because people feel it is safer to get checks at a P.O. box than it is on a mailbox in front of a house or apartment -- which it is!

And then she only has to use her mother's address, or a friend's address, on those rare occasions when only a street address will do.

[NYC]

9. Until you find other living arrangements,

can't you get up very, very early in the morning, and leave the house. Come back very, very late at night when you know everyone will be asleep.

That has to be a lot easier than sleeping in a car. You'll have the shower & plumbing, and a refrigerator for food, etc. If necessary, you can take naps in your car during the day. Leave home at 5 a.m. if you must, and come back at 2 a.m. Whatever it takes to avoid them, while still living in the house.

Good luck.

[lebkuchen]

10. There are a lot of free campers in Europe

...people who own RV-like 'homes' and find free places to park in various towns/cities...they're self-contained w/shower and toilet, traveling around Europe on the cheap. You can see them in Walmart parking lots and the like. I've heard that various stores in the US like Walmart, or perhaps KMart, encourage campers on their property at night and even have a "club." It keeps the riff raff off their property at night.

I've camped (free and otherwise) by bicycle and tent for two months in Europe and loved it. I felt then that if I ever ran into hard times, I could easily do that again. But Europe is easier than the US, I think, in terms of safety.

You might look into buying a used van w/one of those Westfalia pop-up tents on the roof, that comes w/some appliances and chem toilet, decent lighting and a table to eat, read, write at. Then all you'll need is a good sleeping bag and pillow.

If there is a year-round campground near you, you may be able to rent a trailer on the cheap. Good luck to you.

On edit: Europeans often travel across the US w/the kind of van I have mentioned. Then they're in a pinch to sell it before catching their flight back home. They're usually in cities w/international airports. You might look for a van deal that way.

[amazona]

14. most WalMarts encourage free RV camping...

Sam Walton asked the stores to pledge to give anyone who asked a free one night stay at any WalMart. Unfortunately, a few stores have backed out of that pledge. But you can always ask if it is allowed, as it usually is. When staying at WalMart, it would be courtesy to buy your supplies there. Some Kmarts will do it too as a "me too" thing.

However, since she said "car" and not camper, I am not sure if this is allowed. I would NOT trade the car for a camper -- the cost of gas for our camper was ruinous and it made more sense for me to stick with the toyota plus tent scenario. But if camping free at WalMart is the only free camping option in her area, then the camper might make sense.

[lebkuchen]

16. It's a shame diesel isn't used more in the US

as it is in Europe...more miles to the gallon that way, and it's usually cheaper gas.

Many camper vans come with darker tinted windows, so you can change clothes inside without anyone seeing you. Some also have snap-on "curtains" to cover the windows, so you can sleep without anybody seeing inside. I think it would be very uncomfortable sleeping in a car, though in a van, you can feel at home stretching out, reading, writing, etc.

Campers in my German neighborhood are often in the street, parked against the curb. It's not a big deal, and is commonplace, though a person sleeping out of their car would probably get the cops called on them eventually.

[Champion Jack]

11. Be prepared to follow the climate

during the cold months in the U.S. you can live on the beachs in Mexico for really cheap.

[SiobhanClancy]

12. Check this site

http://www.carliving.com/

[amazona]

15. wow, what a cool site!

Looks like some good stuff there...I'm gonna check it out some more right now.

[SiobhanClancy]

17. Check out this one,too

for similar info

http://www.digihitch.com/

[amazona]

13. some pointers

...but I'm not sure how useful they will be, since I can sleep anywhere and my back does not trouble me. It will be more expensive than you think. If you have a tent, you can stay in campgrounds, but most have gone to charging fees even for tent visitors, and you must move every 2 weeks. Free campsites are generally primitive and lack toilets and showers. But to be honest, toilets are everywhere in this society as long as you know how to dress well and pass as a middle class person. You will sometimes want to take sponge baths in a locked toilet but work fast so you are not tying up the restroom for everyone. Showers are easily found at truck stops. They even have showers for women now, and you often have them to yourself, as there are not so many women truckers.

At rest areas, even though it is noisy, I park my car and sleep where the big rigs are parked. You don't want to be off by yourself where one bad apple could bother you. You want to be part of the crowd.

As for internet, for free internet, I use the public library. It is great!

There are devices that plug into your car's cigarette lighter for making hot water, coffee, soup, etc. Again, look at what they have at the truck stop -- lots of supplies there.

It is easy to get into a bad habit of eating only cheap junk food while living like this -- you know, the 99 cent Wendy's crap, the value meals, a big bag of chips. Eating anything is better than starving but while in the library, be sure to review the local section of the newspaper to keep a look out for various functions where free food is served. I like to go to "art walks" and stroll around and get the free food and wine -- but, again, you have to look middle class or better. You don't have to buy anything. You just have to look right. GOOD not frumpy clothes from the thrift or consignment store will pay their way many times over. But, hell, even AA meetings sometimes have coffee and doughnuts and if it's a doughnut or starving, I'll take the doughnut. But there are many events -- open houses, radio station giveaways, sales promotions, blah blah blah. If you can eat whatever is put in front of you, and you can talk and dress well, you need never starve. You might even get fat.

Oh, cops. Since I am a petite nonthreatening looking white woman, then even if they do stop and question me, then it is quite easy for me to put their suspicions to rest. If you are sleeping by the side of the road, you are not drunk, and you are not homeless -- you just got tired and was afraid of falling asleep, so you are taking a nap by the side of the road. You know. Be soft spoken and don't reveal any irritation. Just humor them and tell them what they want to hear and be on your way.

I'll try to think of more later.

[patdem]

18. Ladyhawk never checked back in...so is he/she sincere?

One wonders! :shrug:

[catpower2000]

19. Perhaps I have a suspicious mind, but I wondered the same...

This is not something to consider on a whim, or to joke around about. I know people who've had to live in their car, and I've been very, very close to it myself, and it is NOT a lifestyle you choose, not if you have other options. Not for 99% of people, anyway.

Cat

[catmandu57]

20. I can think of better ways to live

Homelessness is existing not living. I lived out of my car before, and it truly sucked. It may be okay for an adventure for a couple of weeks, but it gets old really really fast.
You can stay at state parks for two weeks at a time, and most of them have showers, a camping stove and utensiles are great to have, but, there are other ways to get away from crappy situations, there is strentgh in numbers, if you get a job and two or three roomies then rent is afordable. Sometimes peace and independence come at a pretty high cost, think twice before striking out on car living, because even though you aren't sleeping on cardboard it's not that far away.

[mike_c]

21. my wife and I live in our Jeep for weeks at a time each winter...

...in Baja, so we've gotten pretty good at it. I don't think I'd want to do it in a sedan, but a truck or SUV works great. We built a fold-out sleeping platform (just a sheet of plywood and three hinges, really, with ropes that hook to the roof rack for support) that doubles as a kitchen counter during the day. We use a tarp and aluminum poles for a sunscreen, a 2-burner Coleman stove and a small, portable charcoal grill. All of our stuff goes into modular plastic chests (Action Packers-- I forget the manufacturer) so we can load and unload in minutes. As I type this we could be on the road in an hour. We generally camp in out of the way places, so our bathroom facilities are a roll of TP in a baggie, a spade, and a box of matches. We bathe with a sponge and a dishpan (usually using the melt water from the cooler rather than potable fresh water). We live REALLY WELL when we do this.

Sometimes when I need a break I just take off for a week or two in the rig. It's easy, and I've often wondered how minimalist we could live and for how long.

[Wcross]

22. Had a couple of friends

I had a couple of friends that were roommates in a 68 chevy back in 81. Both had been kicked out by the parents right after highschool graduation.
Two things stand out, the smell was horrible. One evening they parked at a lot that was going to have a farmers market the next day. They woke up surrounded by fruit stands and people. They couldn't leave until the market packed up.

[Jose Diablo]

23. Big Buicks are best in a car

Maybe a van with black paper on back window, curtains between driver seat and back, air matress. Lots of blankets.

Showers? Whats a shower?:hippie:

[Ladyhawk]

24. I was asleep all day.

I tend to need vast amounts of sleep. 16-17 hours a day sometimes. And besides that, I don't exactly live on DU. Geez, you guys are suspicious. (That's probably good.)

No, I don't live on DU. I don't plan to live on DU. I plan to live on the beach.

My body is falling apart. I have diabetes, herniated discs, sleep apnea, chronic fatigue syndrome and probably fibromyalgia (the thing doctors diagnose you with when they can't figure out why you hurt all over all the time). I also have severe treatment-resistant Major Depression (I've received shock treatments), OCD and PTSD.

To answer your question, I don't know how serious I am. I have thought about it off and on for the past year or two.

You don't know my family. There is no reasoning with them. I would like to be able to tell them exactly what I think without worrying about money being withheld. If it weren't for them, I could not pay for this apartment and I will not go back and live with my mother. That was a nightmare.

As of now, I live pretty comfortably, but there is a high price to pay: sucking up to my family. It feels unnatural. It feels wrong. I should be able to say anything I want to say in their presence.

Also, I'm bloody sick of this right-wing fundamentalist Christian town. I want to live someplace else and being on disability means you just can't pack up and move.

Instead of becoming a place where I can be free, this apartment has become a prison. I really don't lack for anything except privacy and companionship. That may seem like a contradiction, but people I don't want coming over barge right in. My mother has a key. She insisted on it. She'll just come right in without knocking. I could change the lock, but that wouldn't eliminate the basic problem. She calls several times a day and if I don't answer she leaves message upon message. She thinks we have this great relationship, but all it is is me kissing up to her so I can have a roof over my head and a few nice things.

Look, I could write a book on how manipulative my mother is, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to read it. I could tell you all kinds of horrifying facts: her paying for an apartment for a felon on the lamb, then not helping me pay for my own apartment until I sucked up hard for several months. Last year a botched surgery on my eyes messed them up really badly. After the anesthetic wore off, the pain was excruciating. I was effectively blind for over a month and was terrified I would lose my eyesight. When I cursed in frustration. Quote: "I'm sick of being sick all the time. I'm sick of having diabetes. I'm sick of these herniated discs. Most of all, I'm sick of these fucked-up eyes."

Did she put her arms around me and comfort me? Hell no! She started screaming at me for using the word "fuck." I was 35 years old! It is none of her fucking business. Then she launched into me about my atheism and how I was trying to shove it down her throat. Shove it down her throat? Shove it down her throat????

She had brainwashed me into fundamentalist Christianity for the first 18-20 years of my life, then when I finally told her I don't believe in god anymore, suddenly I'm shoving atheism down her throat. And do you know where she got the main idea? She kept coming into my room without knocking. I was playing some actual atheistic music. She heard it. So, naturally I was shoving atheism down her throat. It had nothing to do with the fact that she was violating my personal space.

THIS from a woman who harbored a fugitive for months in the name of Jaysus...god be praised. The rest of the family still doesn't know she had a little hobby involving an LA crip who broke parole.

And before I get a barrage of posts telling me my family needs counseling: THAT HAS BEEN TRIED REPEATEDLY. I've dragged my mother and my brother to family counseling several times. Every single counselor has pretty much said it's a lost cause because neither of them will own their part of the problem. After she lambasted me for saying the word "fuck," we went to a "counseling" session where she hogged the entire 45 minutes telling the counselor what an ungrateful "child" I am.

Hmmm, seems I almost have written a book. Oh well. Deal with it.

I'm sorry, but I can't stand my family. I am slowly having to admit to myself that I actually hate them. The only person in my family I can stand to be around for any length of time is my nephew.

As of now, I can't afford to go anywhere or do anything "fun." If I'm going to be friendless and destitute, I might as well do it out of a car someplace I love...like the beach.

Thank you for your resources. I will check them out. I have never driven anything larger than the Toyota I currently own, so I'm not sure about vans. I was going to see if the back seat would fold down, allowing enough room for an air mattress. But that wouldn't leave any room for "stuff." I'll need some stuff, at least.

As for my computer hardware, I have one true friend who would store anything I didn't want to get rid of. I'm obviously not ready to just leave, but I want to keep this idea of living out of a car as an option and prepare. My body is sending me signals that it is breaking down. I rather suspect I will die fairly young and I want to have a chance to enjoy the only thing that currently has the power to make me happy: the ocean.

I am NOT happy here. I want the ocean, goddammit!!!

Obviously, I haven't thought this out completely, but I am thinking about it. I will need a place to store things and a way to defend myself. My disability check is deposited directly into my account. I can access that from anywhere. I can pay bills online at places that offer Internet access.

My disability grant is $757 a month. My rent is $405 a month. You do the math. It sure as hell ain't enough to live on unless you live in a car. And no, I can't get low-income housing. The waiting period to get on the HUD section 8 list is five years. They won't even talk to me about it. I've tried several times. Low income housing through private organizations is a 2-3 year waiting period in this area.

At times, suicide seems pretty attractive.

[amazona]

25. you can do this in a toyota, that's what i have

There is no reason you can't live nicely out of your Toyota on $1,100 a month -- my only concern is I don't know how much you must spend on medicine, which would blow all of my calculations out of the water. I have a Toyota Corolla that I have slept in when need be. I think it's the smallest car I've slept in.

You should certainly be able to find a way to camp on the beach. Many people, including retirees, do so, and I'm sure many retirees have pain and health issues, so why not you? I really think you can do this!

With your pain issues, don't actually sleep in the car. Get a nice modern tent, of the kind that can be put up by one person, and get a proper sleeping bag and pads. As a back-up, I have a quilt and pillow in the back of my car for long trips, so I can pull over and sleep anywhere, such as near the big rigs at rest stops. (Perhaps it is obvious that I very petite.) But with your monthly income, you can likely afford to get a tent campsite on a beach and have more room to relax. I sort of limped along for years with a pup tent but I recently spent $50 at Kmart for one of those modern "goes up easy" tents, and it is great! It also has much more room for two people, for when another person is with me.

Another possible benefit is that getting into the outdoors COULD -- I'm not saying WILL but it COULD -- greatly benefit your fibromyalgia/chronic fatique if the cause is environmental allergy.

I should mention here that I had chronic pain of unknown cause for 25 years and have had almost complete relief when I learned that the cause was caffeine; even most diet drinks and many sodas such as mountain Dew have caffeine, so you have to work a little to make sure you are not ingesting any caffeine. IF you are impacted by this very rare allergy, which I admit is not likely, you will also find that you do NOT have to sleep 16-17 hours in future, although you will likely always sleep more than average. But I found that I was not getting deep sleep, which was causing the chronic pain, which caused me to stay in bed for 14 hours or more. I'm now finding that I can awake without pain after 7.5 to 9 hours sleep -- needing less sleep if I don't have a drink or two the night before, more if I do. It is probably a long shot that you would have this caffeine reaction but it is worth a try to see if this is a cause of some of your all-over pain and tiredness. If you never sleep deeply, it is logical that you would feel hurt and depressed, and counseling or psychiatric drugs are not going to fix this. It has been several years since I eliminated the caffeine from my diet, and my recovery in body and spirit has been long-lasting. So if you drink caffeine, you may want to see if you benefit from doing without it.

What else? Oh. Get a post office box from the U.S. Post Office -- the smallest size -- for your mail. Private mail boxes charge you for a month what the USPS charges for a YEAR! And learn where all the public libraries are that offer free internet access and their hours.

As far as storing your stuff, make sure that the stuff is worth storing. Say you are paying $100 a year for a unit. Is that furniture worth $1,200 or would you be able to replace it more cheaply if you ever decided to move to another house? As for photographs and special collectibles or memorabilia, which can't be replaced, yes, you need to find a TRUSTWORTHY person who can store a box or two of such valuables in their attic. Another way to save some of your photos, in case they are lost by the person you "thought" was trustworthy is to put them online. Buy some cheap picture hosting, and scan your photos and store them online. In this way, you have backup for your most treasured photos.

The most important thing in living well out of a car/tent situation is to stay clean, look clean, dress well. But this really isn't hard to do if you can afford to rent tent sites in campgrounds, for most offer nice showers. And, in an emergency, as I said before, go to the truck stops and pay for a shower there. As long as you look daisy fresh, you don't encourage infections or bad smells, and you stay healthy.

I can't emphasize daily or twice daily showers or sponge baths enough for the homeless. One of my homeless friends, who has major depression to the point where he will not bathe, has suffered many arrests and other hassles. And it boils down to...he is not accepted because he smells bad. If you stay clean and fresh, even if you look sick, you can pass as middle class -- maybe you are a housewife who is just having a bad day, right? Even rich people get migraines.

Before you move out, get your P.O. box, get your tent, do a recon of the beach area and find the campsites you will be renting -- you will likely need to move every 2 weeks so plan a rotation. Find the internet cafes and libraries. Find the friend to store your photos and to give you an address you can use for when you need a street address. (Offer to pay her $10 a month to keep your mail or buy her bottle of wine when you visit for your mail or something. You know. Just be courteous.)

I have rambled on too long but I really think you can do this. Camping is safer than living in a house, really. Most people around you are retired or (in summer) middle class families on vacation. Campgrounds are not exactly a high crime neighborhood! I would much rather live in a tent than in section 8 housing but don't get me started on that topic or we'll be here all day.

Screw suicide. The best revenge is living well. When you are kicked back on a beach towel, sipping a frosty beer, while the sun sets over the ocean...the evil relatives can eat their hearts out!

[lebkuchen]

27. Do you know much about boats?

There are boat owners that are often looking for people to live on their boats in exchange for upkeep, like keeping the seagull crap off it and sanding the wooden decks. Once you got "in" and developed a reputable reputation, you could branch out from there to bigger boats, etc.