Am I the only one at DU who doesn't really care about how much money......

[LynneSin]

Folks have, folks earn or folks spend???

I've stayed out of this whole "I've spent this, I own that, I make this" because I saw it was a train wreck waiting to happen. And now about 48 hours latter we're all walking around a little bit pissed and some folks and a little bit hurt by the backlash.

I'm not aware that the Democratic Party has a financial limit to those who can claim membership? God, I'd hate to mention I work for a Fortune 500 (hell, it's in double digits) company - I'd be afraid there would be a lynching party after my neck!!!!!

I want to make this clear: I love all of you (well except you freeping lurkers - go away!!!).

I love those that make alot of money, heck I could be someone like that if I just applied myself a little bit more and some of the stories shared with me have helped inspire me to work a little bit harder.

I love those of you that are struggling to make ends meet, I use to be that person too and if I keep slacking at work I could be again. (I've watched the layoffs - not a pretty site to behold)

And I love all you in between - regular joes working hard trying to make ends meet with the money you make and saving up the pennies for special occasions.

So let's get over this. The democratic party is suppose to be that "Big Tent" party. Who amongst you wants to be the one to stand outside with a freaking yardstick measuring those that are allowed to go inside??? It would be a really empty tent

[LoneStarLiberal]

1. Well Said

But I'm still winning the DU Fantasy Football League.

[LynneSin]

2. Ok, I don't love you

So get over it

:eyes:

(just kidding hun!)

[rjbcar27]

3. No you are not.

I couldn't give two hoots what people here earn/spend. Makes no difference to me. Luckily, I'm comfortable, but others are struggling. It's totally irrelevant to me.

Peace.

[bearfartinthewoods]

22. no flame intended but

it's easier for it to be irrelevent to those who are comfortable than it is to those that are struggling.

[SiobhanClancy]

4. You are so right

I doesn't matter one bit to me how much people have,make or spend. It's sad to see so much negativity around because of things like this. It's beyond my comprehension why people need to jump on every little thing and take offense.

[curse10]

5. I don't care

I've spent 2 dollars on a meal and 200.

I've bought a car for 100 bucks and one for 5500 (okay, that's not all that much, but it was to me!).


Right now, I'm in the two dollar for a meal mode, but that doesn't mean that I have to hate everyone else than can afford 20, 200, or 2000 for a dinner.

[Bunny]

6. Yes - well said.

I also don't care who makes what and what they spend it on. Pitt and Dookus can do whatever they want with their hard-earned money.

I think maybe a little judgement could be used, tho. I know I'm probably guilty of it myself. I started a frivolous post this morning about wanting a husband cause I was tired of working for a living.

Meanwhile, I know there are currently any number of DU'ers who would give anything to have any job, much less a decently compensated, relatively low stress, and economically secure job such as mine. It's not the first time I've bitched about my job, either.

Last year I posted about dropping $150.00 on re-doing my bathroom. After I posted it and re-read it, I felt bad mentioning the money I spent on something frivolous. Especially since I think the original thread was from someone who had a serious bathroom repair problem that they could not afford to complete. There are people who can't feed their families and I'm chuckling about spending a week's worth of groceries on some bathroom decorations? Talk about being totally clueless... Sheesh!

I think maybe just a little more understanding might be helpful.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

7. Worked with the homeless, have millionaire friends

both can be freaking pricks if you catch them on a bad day. Money is a good indicator of your net worth, nothing more.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. Bully hell no

People earn the money, they have a right to spend the money. As long as they aren't earning because they are hiring slaves or polluting the earth or yada yada yada... no one should care.

Hopefully, we are all giving to charity and volunteering and helping and being kind and generous.

But, what the hell - if someone wants something expensive, and they can afford it, have at it. Spend the money - it supports the artists who make the artwork, or the artist chef who cooks, it hires the waiters, it benefits everyone, and most importantly, it makes life all that much sweater because one has done something one enjoys, or now has in possession something that one truly loves and enjoys owning, whether it be a major cruise, a fancy dinner, a jaguar or a painting or a fountain pen.

Anyone who accuses another of being an "ass" or "immoral" becuase that person spent more money for something than the accuser feels is "appropriate" has some serious issues they need to deal with.

My fountain pens are expensive, but it's because a)I wanted a couple that look nice, b) I wanted ones that are superior quality since I write a lot, and most importantly, c) I wanted ones that will actually last into the next generations and not fail on me. Am I bad person for having a couple $200 fountain pens? Or would I be a worse person for buying hundreds of disposable $2 pens? To me, that's the same reason for buying a Mercedes (don't have one, but would like one) because it's good engineering, and it's good stewardship - one can buy a mercedes, and know that, probably, one will never need to buy another car and one's children will quite likely be able to drive it. Same reason for buying anything of quality - it lasts longer - or anything made by true artists: it's better looking and enjoyable. I love the look of Jaguars, and would want one just because they're beautiful. I wouldn't drive it, because it will just break, but as artwork, it's splendid. :-)

Lighten up people - let's celebrate with those people who, in these times, still CAN manage to have a good night out, or get something they like. Yeah, many of us are hurting financially, but that's no reason the others shouldn't be able to share their joy.

[On the Road]

9. There Seems to be a Consensus Building

I believe these threads on money have been very useful. It's brought some things out into the open.

[Bunny]

14. what do you think the consensus is?

n/t

[wtmusic]

17. I was just about to respond to your post

in my thread, Ribo, when it got locked...

So I'll address it here, without naming names.

Some mistook my intentions for writing that post. I really don't give a rat's ass whether someone talks about how much money they make, how much their car costs, etc. etc.

The point is: don't whine when someone can't relate (they might not be able to relate because their car cost twice as much). It is irrelevant to any core issue.

[catpower2000]

10. I don't care, and don't judge people for, how much money they make...

However, if they post it on a public message board in the form of bragging, they are asking for scorn. It's an inappropriate topic when we keep in mind how many people on DU are really struggling.

Cat

[wtmusic]

12. I'm with you Cat

I guess it's against rules to get specific--my thread got locked.

[GOPisEvil]

13. If someone is bragging, I agree with you.

But, too many people are willing to assign a motive where none exists.

[catpower2000]

16. As we often do on this board, we assign motive based on past behavior..

When you spend a (really ridiculous, hee) amount of time with a group of people, you very naturally develop opinions about who they are and how much you respect what they say. It's impossible not to.

So, let me give you an example. If Salin or Buddhamama, or Crew, or you, or someone I know to be a truly selfless and generous and kind person had posted that thread, I think I would have flinched at the inclusion of the amount (yes, still feeling it is in poor taste), but I probably would have stayed quiet. The particular posters in question--well, I don't have warm feelings toward them, so I naturally was totally put off by what I consider to be a couple of tasteless posts.

Cat

[GOPisEvil]

18. But don't their actual intentions mean anything?

I understand the visceral reaction you had. But, upon reading things, it became apparent to me that there wasn't any negative intent. I think we can debate whether the inclusion of a dollar amount was poor judgement or not, but I don't think the intent of the original posts were to belittle anyone.

Truly selfless, generous and kind? Me? I have my moments. ;-)

[catpower2000]

20. Heh. Ever seen one of my flame fests?

I'm fairly certain nobody gave a flying fuck about my original intent. After I emerged from the ashes and wreckage numerous times, I had learned two things:

1. People have NO IDEA what my original intent was. They can only see the words I posted, and they have no reason to believe that I'm actually a nice person and the stupid thing I posted doesn't really reflect the REAL ME. Therefore, I'd better figure out how to say things clearly, and in a non-offensive way, or I'm going to be flamed, and I'm going to deserve it.

2. There are going to be times that, despite my having learned lesson number one, I am still going to occasionally inadvertantly post something that offends someone or many people. It's a message board and that's what happens, it's unavoidable. Therefore, I'd better grow a thicker skin and take my lumps when I deserve them, if I choose to participate on a message board.

I see no reason why the poster in question can't learn these lessons as well. All of us "common folk" have learned them, and we don't run to the comments forum to ask (rudely) for our thread to be locked, either. We don our asbestos underwear and tough it out, or we leave. Simple, no?

Cat

[wtmusic]

21. Amen n/t

[GOPisEvil]

23. Well, I guess I'm a rarity...

...I actually try to determine intent before I write something in reply. If I can't determine intent, I ask, if I'm interested. Otherwise, I just leave it alone, and check back through the wreckage later. ;-)

Hey - I'll trade ya "say things in a clear and non-offensive way" lessons for some "inner bad-ass" lessons. Deal? :P

[catpower2000]

25. Deal!

You are, indeed, a rarity, in lots of way, David. You're an exceptionally empathetic and kind person, and that's wonderful. If the world, and DU, were filled with people like you, we could all post whatever we wanted without thinking about it too hard, and trust that the exceptionally kind people here would sift through any offensive or tacky things we included in order to find our true meaning.

Unfortunately, we all live in this little place called "reality", where maybe Mike Smith reads about someone else's expensive dinner while he's logged onto the computer at the library, after he's been thrown out of his house, after having lost his job, after his kids didn't have enough to eat, and maybe Mike Smith can't find it in his heart to empathically and kindly see through the offensive post to know that the TRUE PERSON behind the poster rescues puppies in his spare time and can't possibly have meant any offense. Quite probably, Mike Smith couldn't give a shit about getting into the original poster's head, and quite frankly, I can't blame him.

People get flamed for posting offensive things about the South, about women, about religion or the lack thereof, etc etc ad nauseum. They learn to post things clearly and non-offensively, or not at all. I think this is a good thing.

Cat

[buddhamama]

71. oh no you don't

if i start acting weird or out of character, if nothing else you must PM me. i could be suffering from repub brainswashing and may not recognize or associate with my former self. what happens to me then? i mmight need an intervention.

promise me Cat, please.

j/k

point taken. :hi:

[FlaGranny]

47. Cat, can you imagine that "someone" could have posted

out of sheer joy over an event, and maybe was NOT bragging?

[catpower2000]

52. Did you read the rest of my posts on this thread?

I have no idea what the poster's original intention was, and it's not my job to shine up my crystal ball and guess. Of course we have preconceived notions about who people are and how much we like them based on having spent time on this site around one another. I have said, on this very thread if you read all of my posts, that my preconception of the poster in question was not very good, and the post itself gave NO indication that what you suggest (the sheer joy theory) is true or untrue. The only information given was the monetary amount.

I submit that anyone wanting to take part in posting on a message board needs to learn how to say things clearly and unoffensively, or they are going to get flamed, and they are going to deserve it. See my posts above. I also submit that there is NOBODY on this site who deserves special treatment, or deserves to be exempt from learning these lessons.

Cat

[wellstone_democrat]

70. That's my position

Did get involved in them, didn't much care one way or the other what they or anyone else do with their money. What I was mystified by was the fact that they:
a. felt the need to tell us all
b. were surprised that some people -Democrats or not---felt it was conspicuous consumption?

Hell, my Nana is a hardline old-style Republican (and rich) and she would have scolded them for those posts. Out of envy? Out of philosophy? Nope, she would have considered it vulgar to post such things.

Those plus the people trolling for a fight so they can feel badly---the best example was a "I got an SUV-flame me!" type of post. Isn't life hard enough? Do you need to ask someone to slap the crap out of you? Damn it, think before you post shit like this or take your beating without whining.

[cmf]

11. I'm with you.

I don't resent any other person's good fortune.

However, I've been on a lot of message boards and it's the same thing everywhere. If you bring up a dollar amount for anything, you will get flamed. You just can't change how people will react.

[blondeatlast]

15. So be it; amen. Perhaps dollar amounts are tacky, but I don't

resent anyone's good fortune, whether it be monetary, social, whatever.

Happy for Will that he has that good a friend (he didn't buy ME dinner in Tempe!) and that Dookus can get a truly exquisite car. I'm happy for me that I have a nice home and a few well-chosen creature comforts.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

19. Agreed.

I don't have much to add to that, thanks Lynne.

[Cocoa]

24. I'm extremely sensitive to class and money issues

and I realize not everyone else is.

My roommate once thought I was crazy when I made a big deal about a Seinfeld episode where George was supposedly cheap for giving Elaine a sweater that was "only" $85, marked down from hundreds for some flaw. He had no clue where I was coming from, and I had no clue how he couldn't see what was really obvious to me.

[JCMach1]

26. I don't care how much anyone makes

However, I do know that I had to become an expat to make ends meet by working in my profession. Paying close to 50% of my income for health insurance has become a huge burden.

I feel very sorry for those I am leaving behind. Teachers in my old school district will soon be paying close to $1000 per month for the family plan insurance. That's almost more than some of the bus drivers, and teacher's aides make. :(

Good luck to you if you are making the bucks and don't forget those who don't.

[buddhamama]

27. honestly

i do not resent or hate people with money but i'd be lying if i didn't say that it bothers *how* people make their money.

now you can call me judgemental or whatever but you'd be a hypocrit for doing so.

face it, we make judgements about others every single day of our lives. we all have our own moral compass and established 'rights and wrongs' and we are going to act and react accordingly, regardless of party affiliation.

what truly bothers me is the lack of undertsanding.

we are quick to act without understanding and we are also quick to judgement without understanding. and the same hold trues in reverse. we enjoy ingnorance when it provides us with an excuse for absolution.
the interconnectedness of 'life' as we know cannot be denied.

if i have a little money saved and decide to invest said money in Diamond Mines in Liberia, i must accept that it will either have a positive or negative affect.ahh, but this is where it gets tricky, positive or negative according to whom?

being *me* i'd say negative. i'd say more than that probably. i'd most likely feel it was wrong to support killing and denial of human rights just to make $$$$ and say so.


what do we come here for everyday if not to rally against our perceived rights and wrongs? we've made judgements against others based on how we feel this Nation and the world 'should' be.

i judge myself and absolve myself of nothing.
i fully expect others to do the same-- judge me.

[Crewleader]

You are a special DUer LynneSin

It's good to see people get ahead, gives everyone else hope! :hi:

[Crewleader]

28. You are a special DUer LynneSin

It's good to see people get ahead, gives everyone else hope! :hi:

edit...make that twice over friend! :-)

[Skittles]

29. I find displays of weath uttlerly f***ing distasteful

but I never said they couldn't be in our "party".

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. So social class and economic justice are irrelevant?

"I love those that make alot of money, heck I could be someone like that if I just applied myself a little bit more and some of the stories shared with me have helped inspire me to work a little bit harder."

If you just applied yourself a bit more you could be rich? Probably not.

"I love those of you that are struggling to make ends meet, I use to be that person too and if I keep slacking at work I could be again. (I've watched the layoffs - not a pretty site to behold)"

If your job gets outsourced it's because you are slacking? Probably not.

The funniest part was the "stories" that "inspire" you. That's hilarious.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. and then there are those who are just plain angry. At the world, at them

selves. Calm down, it's tiring.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. what, you mean get used to it?

Wow, I was under the impression that the Democratic party supported social justice. The Democrats won't stand for discrimination against gender, sexual orientation, class, color, or creed, but discriminating against people who don't have enough money is okay?

And if you bring this up, it's just a personal problem?

What would happen if I said gays should just get used to discrimination because they are just angry at the world and themselves, what would you say? Would you be happy if I said gays harping on dicrimination is just "tiring"?

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. No, I guess I just didn't see any discrimination going on. You must have

better eyesight then me, or massive amounts of intuition. Because somebody spends money, that's discrimination? O-0-0-kay?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. If you don't see dicrimination against the poor

than you are blind.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. If I say" I am a woman, ask me anything", am I then discriminating against

men? It doesn't wash with me, sorry.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

43. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were deliberately missing the point

The poster implied that people always earn their money, people who aren't rich don't work hard enough, people who get laid off are just slackers, and that there is some sort of discrimination against rich people in the Democratic party.

The funniest part is the idea that rich people are discriminated against in the Democratic party, since most of the candidates were born into money, most office holders are richer than most Americans, and big business and rich people donate most of the money to the Democratic party. But according to this thread, it's poor people griping about vulgar displays of wealth that's the real problem.

You implied that my opinion on this matter is just a personal problem because I'm mad at myself and the world, and bringing it up is tiring.

So again, I'm sorry I didn't realize that you were purposfully avoiding the issue. So, never mind.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. She didn't imply that those that get laid off are slackers, she stated SHE

was slacking and might get laid off if she doesn't quit.

I now see the problem. You read MORE into a post than what is said then make the poster responsible for your interpretation even when NO REASONABLE person came to the same conclusion.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

53. no reasonable person?

I thought it was pretty obvious what we talking about here - and the implications of what she said I thought were obvious as well. If you took her statement out of the context of the issues we were discussing, than sure.

"You read MORE into a post than what is said then make the poster responsible for your interpretation even when NO REASONABLE person came to the same conclusion."

I read her post in the context of the discussions that we've had here. I never made ANYONE responsible for my interpretation. So, try again.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. Nope, I'm not going to engage with you, you simply want to escalate

You clearly took her statement out of context on the "laid off" matter.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

59. you don't want to engage but you keep posting

because *I* simply want to escalate?

I took her statement IN context, when perhaps I shouldn't have. You're probably right, she was probably just talking about herself, but IN THE CONTEXT of the discussion, that was the implication than *many* reasonable people would make. She wasn't just talking about herself, she was talking about the Democratic party. If you're going to criticize, at least get it right.

Now since you don't want to escalate, and I do, I get the last word right?

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. So I tried to read between the lines and make something more of it

but it doesn't work for me. Sorry.

[jafap]

68. I applaud your exposure of those implications

Seriously, now that you mention it, they are there and I am a little sheepish about not seeing them. We are so caught up in some of these myths that they do not rub us the wrong way - and they should.

[blondeatlast]

66. Mrs. Grumpy and I are not exactly the "haves," gang.

Just among the "glad to have what we haves."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. No but invoking those concepts out of context doesn't help the cause

Will posted about dropping $600 bucks on a date. It's obviously something he doesn't do all the time or it wouldn't have mattered to HIM that he did it.

There's your first clue.

Making people WRONG for enjoying their life while others are suffering is ridiculous. How does one end the suffering of others by suffering themselves?

If Will did that every night..yeah..take him to the mat...it's the sign of someone sorely out of touch.

He CLEARLY doesn't do it every night.

IMHO, you DEMEAN social justice and economic equity when you target those NOT in the class of ARISTOCRAT but rahter randomly select a target based on ONE evening of luxuriating.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

54. umm, perhaps re-read the thread

Because you obviously didn't read what I wrote.

[jafap]

72. I am not sure why he even needs to do it once

I am not saying that it is wrong to enjoy your life, but it is wrong if your chief or preferred form of enjoyment is conspicuous consumption. Would Will have been suffering if he had spent $30 on his dinner? He seems to be light years ahead of me just by the fact of having a date. Then again, if I could afford a jag and a $600 dinner, I might have a date as well. I would become a perfect ten - a four with $6 million. My jokes might even be funny.

Then again, I have to appreciate people who vote against their own economic interests.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

74. It depends on what one considers to be their economic interest.

I make enough to spend that much on dinner several times a week if I choose to. I made it helping those who are the underdog...I could go hang myself for being successful but that would be one less avocate for the underdog.

When it comes to voting, I can vote for a tax cut or I can realize part of what makes my ability to earn is the peace that accompanies a society that focuses on social justice (even if poorly right now..notice crime rises with poverty rates.)

At any rate, I stand by my prior remarks. One evening of luxuriating doesn't make Will Pitt Evita.

[jafap]

76. did I say he was Evita? Or the moral equivalent?

I also stand against the points I have been trying to refute

1) the idea that "enjoying your life" equates with "buying expensive goods and services" and

2) the idea that "successful" equates with "making lots of money".

The defense of "the big date" seems to rest on those two propositions - 1) don't hate me because I am "successful", and 2) don't we all have a right to "enjoy our life".

If I am hating anything here it is the "twisted" (in my view) definitions of "success" and "the good life". If that is your outlook then I would call you a mammonaholic. If you (in general - not meant as a personal attack) only did it once, then I would say that you fell off the wagon, which is not a good thing, and you need to get right back on. Renounce and resist the siren call of luxury. Re-read "The Poverty of Affluence"

Finally, as to your enlightened self interest. I would guess that, if you are good at what you do, you will be faced with what Somerby called "Margaret's choice", or have already made it. Some corporation will offer you an opportunity to sell out, or you will realize that the possibility exists. I am guessing that squashing the underdog pays better than assisting them, and so assisting them is not in your economic interest and therefore that you are not a mammonaholic.

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. Uhhhhhhhhh, yeah

Rabrrrrrrr's comments in red

"I love those that make alot of money, heck I could be someone like that if I just applied myself a little bit more and some of the stories shared with me have helped inspire me to work a little bit harder."

If you just applied yourself a bit more you could be rich? Probably not.

Perhaps not, but if you don't apply yourself, you definitely won't become rich, unless you're born into it. If you want something, you have to work for it, unless, as I said, you were born into money.


"I love those of you that are struggling to make ends meet, I use to be that person too and if I keep slacking at work I could be again. (I've watched the layoffs - not a pretty site to behold)"

If your job gets outsourced it's because you are slacking? Probably not.

Not for outsourcing, no - that's an economic decision, not a people-power decision. And the poster said nothing about outsourcing, he said about layoffs. But slackers are the ones who will tend not to get the promotions, not to get the pay raises, not to be kept on the payroll if jobs have to be eliminated. And not all layed-off people are slackers, either, of course. But when I've been in job situations where there truly were too many employees, it was the slackers who got bounced, and rightfully so, in my opinion.

The funniest part was the "stories" that "inspire" you. That's hilarious.

Why should it be hilarious? Why can't we be inspired by those who have attained what we wish to attain? People who want something specific/particular out of life, but who aren't working for it, get little sympathy from me. What one WANTS or thinks one deserves is irrelevant; what one DOES to attain it is the important thing in this discussion. I'd love to have the skill of a concert violinist - but I don't want to practice 8 hours a day. So am I bitter about it? No, that's the choice I've made - I have other things I'd like to do than practice violin, like paint, read, write, and do my job. Stories that inspire me are, well, inspiring, and I'm glad for them. I'm often inspired by others' stories.

[LynneSin]

63. Slacking off vs. "getting laid off"

To be honest, in the last 2 companies that I've worked for this IS a factor.

Unfortunately most corporations use a rating system for their employees that factor many things in including knowledge of job, reliability and yes - if the boss sees you slacking off alot that can get factored in there also.

Everyone receives a rating and this rating is what is used to determine who would be next to go when there is a layoff.

It works something like this:

Top 20%: These are the best on the team and have nothing to worry about when layoffs occur

Middle 60%: These folks are doing well and should be fine when layoffs come around

Bottom 20%: These folks need improving and would be the first to go if there is a layoff.


Now imagine a boss has 10 people and all 10 will be rated and with this system. If if the boss has 10 incredibly talented people someone will always be rated in that bottom group. With our system, if your score is high, but still the lowest in your group, management will try to help you find another position in the company whether it's an open slot or another team with layoffs that maybe has more than 20% that does really poor. But unfortunately it usually means you're laid off

But in general, if there are layoffs and the boss is told to layoff 20% of his staff those bottom 2 people are the ones to go.

Then the beauty of the system is after those 2 are gone - the scale readjusts itself and 2 more folks are dropped into the lower spot.

In a way - I hate the system, but most major companies are doing it. At least it's a "fair" way to determine who gets laid off versus a random choice of "I don't like you so you're out of a job". And because you know your rating, it's suppose to help you improve your job.

I'm not a top 20%, but I'm pretty high up on my list. But if I'm slacking too much at work and the boss sees that, it could affect me. I'm good at my job but not the most technical person; however, my job is very non-traditional from what our department is doing and many people have been pleased with the work I do.

BTW - I've watched 1 layoff at my company. After watching that, everyday before I get into the elevator I say a quick prayer that there are no security guards milling around anyone's office when I get in there, including my own (security guards at your desk means you're getting the boot

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

67. nice point, but not the point

Look, this is *obviously* just my opinion.

You started a thread stating that it doesn't matter how much money someone makes, you posted opinions that are straight out of the GOP (work hard and you too can be rich) and generally wrote off class issues. I object to that - it matters a whole lot. I don't hate rich people, and I know rich people that are great people. That's not the point.

We have a basic glaring inequality in our society - the inequality of wealth - and to many of us it's a BIG deal. It's also the BASIS of the modern Democratic party of FDR.

Since the 1960's there has been a huge shift to social issues - like feminisism, abortion, LGBT rights and athiests rights - and I for one welcome those issues and those people into our party.

But when those issues are used to push out the economic issues, the ones that affect me, I will object, loudly and strongly. It makes me pretty pissed that we stand firmly behind women and LGBT and athiests but don't show solidarity to workers and the poor. We allow anti-union libertarians to post their spam but we would never put up with anti-women or anti-gay posts.

Until class issues get the same attention that the social issues do, I will continue to object.

[LynneSin]

73. object loudly?

Pul-lease - get over it.

Folks get rich in 2 manners - they've worked hard for it or they've inherited it. You think I'm some hoighty toighty person who came from some rich suburban area.

Boy you really need to learn a thing or two. I came from a poor rural area of Pennsylvania with a crappy school system because we didn't have the property taxes like our neighboring county. Believe me, I could have just been another statistic, but I worked my ass off to get where I'm at. And guess what, so did many of the people from our school. That will NEVER EVER make anyone "straight out of GOP", that makes me believe that anyone who works hard can make a difference in their lives. But I also believe we need to reach out and help give people the start they need to reach their goals, which is where our government is so truly failing us. This is a two-way street and that process is neither democrat OR republican.

This is the reason why we are hemorhaging people from democratic party is with "Assumptions" like yours. We're all to snappy to stand by the democratic tent with our yardstick and judge who deserves to go in the tent and who shouldn't. Sure it's your "yardstick" (opinion) - but it's an empty tent you stand in with it!

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I love you too, but did you have to start the fantasy football when so

many of us rabid midwestern football fans were in the dark with no puter access? Aha! I know you did it on purpose because you know we are intellectually more superior when it comes to matters of the pigskin. :evilgrin:

[LynneSin]

38. Geez and we had an open slot

I would have given it to you in a heartbeat - someone dropped out right before the draft and left us a team shy!

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. sniffle...sorry I missed it.

[short bus president]

33. Well, I care, sorta

but only because I'm still holding out hope that some woman will take me in on a "kept man" arrangement, whereby I'll lift weights and oil myself all day, never having to work, in exchange for providing bedroom services and a trophy-man vanity kick. No takers just yet, but there's still time.

;-)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

45. LOL...You want to be a pet?

:beer:

[short bus president]

46. What's yer offer, hon?

My demands are few: gift presentation of a shiny freeweight set while you perform "I can make you a man" prancing around in stockings and garters, and health insurance.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. Well maybe if we did that on a stage...

People would pay us enough money so we could afford health insurance.
Then you wouldn't have to be anybody's love slave...

[short bus president]

61. I like the way you think!

You have entrepreneurial insight. That's good. But seriously, no love slavery at all? Not even a :spank: every now and again? I'd have to think about it.

;-)

[LynneSin]

64. Short Bus, if I win the Lottery you can be my love muffin

Now first I have to play I suppose - can you loan me a few dollars so I can buy a ticket or 2?

[short bus president]

65. "You don't have to be rich

to be my girl.
You don't have to be cool to rule my world.
Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with.
I just want your extra time and your... KISS."

;-)

[kmla]

36. Damn, I hate to go "Rodney King" on everyone's ass, but

can't we all just get along?

I agree w/ Lynne!

Who give a rat's ass what I spent on my car, or how much I paid for dinner?

I personally would like to see alot of this ire that has been reserved for the $/no $ threads heaped on the dumbass who is on his annual month-long vacation.

Gotta admit - it feels better when you bite a freeper's ass rather than someone in here, don't it?

:wtf:

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. Okay but I am still pissed off about the fantasy football thing.

[Uzybone]

39. I could give a shizzle

If a person worked hard for thier money )hell even if Daddy passed it down) they have the right to spend as they like. There is more to a person that judging them by what expensive items they own.

[SideshowScott]

41. I dont care eather..If your cool your cool no matter what income braket

It really does not matter to me how much money one has or does not have..I really dont think money has ANYTHING to do whith what kind of person you are..you cant buy true class! And ive seen more people who have nothing with more of it than people with money..And ive met some people with money that are the coolest people around..
The bottom line is always who you are that counts for me

[CanuckAmok]

44. Born poor, was rich for a while, am poor again, will maybe be rich again..

But I'm still the same person throughout.

That's how I try to think of others, especially as they zoom past my rickety old truck in their S-Class Mercedi.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

48. The amount of money one earns is unimportant, however...

I believe the more money we earn, the greater our duty is to spend it in a socially responsible fashion. It can be expensive to buy quality products that don't harm the environment and aren't manufactured by companies with questionable labor practices.

Wealthier people should shun morally reprehensible businesses and invest in those which promote the health and well-being of the earth and its inhabitants. As a result, "good" business will thrive and "bad" business will either evolve or become extinct.

This is not to say that the lower end of the economic spectrum can't contribute to the cause. For example, better apparel can be found at the local thrift shop than in Wal-Mart. Purchasing used items keeps money out of the hands of companies that utilize slave labor. Spending a little more money on organic food and consuming less junk can do wonders for battling America's obesity epidemic as well as supporting earth-friendly enterprise.

While $600 on dinner seems on one hand a frivolous expense, it it on the other hand allowing a waiter, a chef, a busboy, and an ostrich farmer a chance to make a decent living. I can promise you that's one thing Denny's won't do.

We need America's wealthy on our side right now...Not only because of the contributions they make to political campaigns and charities; but because they can make "good" business take off and fly, with a promise of a better financial future for those on lower rungs of the economic ladder.

[Rabrrrrrr]

57. well said - especially about decent living and responsible spending

Interesting that we talk much of living wages, but yet, when it comes to waiters and waitresses, the only ones who are making a living wage are the ones at the expensive restaurants, the very restaurants it seems that other DUers would prefer that we not go to.

You're right - no one working Denny's is making a living wage, at least on wait staff.

And absolutely right on that those with the money have a MORAL responsibility to share it and spend it wisely, on earth-friendly items, and also by buying locally grown and locally made and supporting the artists and artisans of the community the welathier person lives in.

That's what responsible is. It's not how much, but the quality of what you spend it on, and who you are giving the money to.

[NightTrain]

62. Actually, I don't give a damn, either

But that's because I'm undoubtedly one of the poorer members of DU!

Of course, I'm poor by choice because somehow, I never got the message that I was supposed to develop an anal-retentive obsession with the almighty dollar. I'm such a weirdo!

[Keithpotkin]

69. i want to become a republican, run for president, win, and make a tax cut.

and call it the "FUCK THE POOR" tax cut.

classic.

[rasputin1952]

75. I'm with you...

who cares?

Another persons financial assets mean nothing to me. It is not my money, and I doubt if those that have great sums of money will give any to me.

I am a realist; I make a decent amount of money, certainly enoough to live on, but I help support 3 families, and sometimes $ is very tight. But I do this on my own volitiona, and expect nothing in return for the effort.

Whenever I can, I try to help others that are worse off that I; simply because it is the right thing to do. No strings attached, nothing expected in return. Random acts of kindness work wonders, and if I can make just one persons life a little better, I have succeeded.

I pay my bills, sometimes late, but they get paid. My son is well taken care of. Not much else matters; greed has never been a vice of mine.

[Fair and Balanced]

77. No problem with someone spending $600 on dinner

Problem with their announcing it on a public discussion board. Tacky.