Courtesy... and my new resolutions. Any one else care to join me?

[Raven]

I'm sure that everybody is tired to death of this subject, but humor me! And this is going to be somewhat long but please try to read it through.

I consider myself a fairly polite, constructive person but I was disappointed at my behavior at one particular point last night on this site. I have been thinking about it alot today and also following some of the threads here and on GD about civility on DU. I looked up the definition of "courtesy" just now and it mentions respect for others. I think that's what it's all about.

I knew someone once, a gentleman quite a bit older than me, who was a world class litigator...he practiced before the highest courts in this country...huge cases...and he won most of the time. He was a formidable opponent, but if you asked any of the lawyers who came up against him, they would tell you what a gentleman he was, fair and courteous. I know for a fact that he could skin you in a deposition and when it was over, you would get up, shake his hand and thank him for having treated you decently. A lost art these days. I feel as if I lost this art last night and by doing so it diminished me and DU.

If you were at a party (not a drunken brawl!)or at the dinner table with friends would you tell them to kiss your ass if they said something you disagreed with? Doubtful. If someone at the party talked about nothing but money and it was offensive to you, you would probably excuse yourself and join another group. Right? If this person was a friend you might take him/her aside to point out how offensive you found it. My point here is that we all have social behavior that works in most circumstances... usually when we are face to face with people. Somehow the invisibility and anonymity of the web (and this site)may have broken this down. So here are my resolutions going foreward:

1. I will never go after any one personally on this site. I will privately e-mail them if I want to call them on something personal.

2. I will not use language that I would not use around my kids. If I can't drive my point home without such language, then I probably didn't have much of a point to make in the first place.

3. I will assume that everyone who posts here, posts in good faith and if I begin to doubt that I will either ignore them or go to the moderators.

4. DU is not a place to get attention...it is a place to converse and to interact. I will never hype a post just to get a reaction.

5. I will never post if I've had too much to drink or am under the influence of drugs...unless I warn folks first.

6. I will never post if I am taking out my anger over something else.

7. I will not use DU as a whipping boy. If the issue I care passionately about doesn't resonate here, I'll leave it alone, here, at least.

8. I will treat this site like the place it is...a refuge... a place of understanding, support, a place to trade thoughts and ideas...a democratic place... a jewel, and I will not deface it.

Sorry about the length of this! Do I get a prize??? :-)

[soleft]

1. You get a "me too" from me

[Booberdawg]

2. Thank you

I hope it catches on.:hi:

[TXlib]

3. #4 is what the Lounge is for, though...

[GOPisEvil]

4. I've tried to debate by holding to a simple rule:

Disagreement need not cause one to be disagreeable. I don't always stick to this, as I've got hot buttons too. But I try. That's all I ask. I'll extend the same courtesy to my fellow DUers.

:-)

[Skittles]

5. but I WOULD tell them to kiss my ass

so sayeth SKITTLES; but that's just me. :)

[Raven]

8. How many parties have you missed out on?

:-) You can come to mine but I'll just leave you in the closet!

[brokensymmetry]

6. Well said!

I was having a conversation earlier today about the general coarsening of life, language, and various interactions. Incivility - even done in jest - can (must?) lead to further incivility. Coarseness leads to ever more notable coarseness.

And I find that the world is harsh enough without adding to the problem. Perhaps if we all help each other in this direction, we can make DU into the genuine haven we want it to be.

Yes, I admit that I'll probably write an ill-conceived post and get reminded that I'm not doing a very good job of living up to my aspirations. I'll try to remember the comment is for my own good! :)

[Skittles]

7. BULLSHIT

I........ER, SORRY, that's CONFRONTATIONAL.

BULLFEATHERS.

If someone's being an ass I'm calling them on it. PERIOD!!! Us Democrats have gotten NOWHERE playing the CIVILITY CARD. You have to FIGHT DIRTY with these rotten thieves that have taken over the country! Now with EACH OTHER, perhaps we could TONE IT DOWN A BIT. :P

[Raven]

9. We are not talking about THEM...

we are talking about US! Get back in that closet!

[Raven]

10. I should have asked...

would you like to take care of the coats? :-)

[Skittles]

24. YES MS. RAVEN

:7

[brokensymmetry]

13. Fight dirty?

I wonder. Do we gain more by fighting dirty, as you suggest, or by concentrating on fighting effectively?

Raven brings up a good point as well, that being that we need to work together if we want to accomplish anything.

Let's consider your response, if we may. Does it contribute to working together? I recognize you as a dedicated Democratic activist, and an important member of DU - and I recognize that you're trying to make a point. Yet, I wonder if such comments might intimidate or offend a new member who wasn't aware of your credentials. Surely you wouldn't want to drive support away from our causes?

No, Skittles - plain speech has many benefits, and one must, as you say, fight to win - but I will continue to believe that civility in communications (particularly amongst our own) is the better course.

[Skittles]

25. are we talking about inside the DU?

because courtesy DOES NOT WORK WITH REPUBLICANS.

[jafap]

11. Kurt Vonnegut wrote an essay on decency

Said that he had it, and the hippies did not, but he saw it as a little bit of a failure in himself - the ability to converse politely with someone like Rumsfeld instead of dumping a bucket of blood on them.

I want some more attention, but not the kind that got one of my posts deleted. I have almost 500 posts, but, alas, only about fifty responses to my posts. I wonder if everyone, even skittles, is afraid to argue with me.

Will that last sentence get a response?

[Raven]

12. Which last sentence?

I don't get alot of responses either most of the time and it is a real temptation to "bang your shoe" to get people to pay attention...but, most of the time I get "quality" responses... people who really have something to say to me...I think that is good enough. Don't judge yourself by the number of responses you get but by what they say. You have raised a very good issue here...we put a flame next to someone who has alot of responses...there is no symbol for quality of responses here at DU...but there should'nt be. Somehow we are all infected with the same germ that says quanity rather than quality. That is life, I'm afraid...even here at DU.

[Twillig]

19. Wasn't that tiltled something like 'good night, good manners'

or vice versa. Something in "Palm Sunday"

He also, at least in that book, made a point of pointing out the dignity of the native americans protesting the demo convention (I think). The conclusion was basically that it made it easier to ignore them. The general guide of the winners club (Repug and Demo) was this: Ignore agony. (I know I got that right)

don't worry: like you, like many--I kill threads. This one may now sink like a rock. :-)

[Crewleader]

14. Hi Raven.....

Do I get a prize???

Flowers For The Lady!



And a great quote I love:

"The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands."~Robert M. Persig

And you do that in this small corner of the world on DU!

Raven it's a pleasure to know you friend! :loveya:

[Raven]

16. Same here Crew!

I wish there were legions of you around here!

[Kenneth ken]

15. you got roses from Crewleader

about the best prize DU has to offer.

Would that everyone here had her class. Alas, we don't; but for anyone who aspires to grace and civility, she sets the standard - highly.


Raven, I'm not sure which posts you disappointed yourself with, but for the most part, you are usually at Crew's level.

[Crewleader]

21. Thanks Kennethken

you are much too kind with the compliments friend...there's no level about me just love my friends and Raven happens to be on top of the list as well as you! :loveya:

[NightTrain]

17. Fuck that shit!

Ha! Just kidding. :evilgrin:

[Kenneth ken]

18. you of course

will NOT get roses from Crewleader. Her humor is tasteful; you could learn from her.

[Rabrrrrrr]

20. I think it's a wonderful idea

Civility and being "gentlemanly" (or "gentlewomanly") is where it's at. Nothing like a bit of plain old politeness, and being polite doesn't mean that you don't call someone under the rug, contrary to what others in this thread might think.

Being a gentleman NECESSITATES that boorish and ignorant behavior be pointed out, and that one does exhibit that behavior. Dems have become polite without the gentlemanly aspect of admonishing others, and that's very sad.

I'm all for what you propose - it makes society much better.

[WilliamPitt]

22. Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee

I'm sorry. This is an excellent, excellent post, and worthy of a vow. I will make it, because I need to, because I blow it around here too often. Thanks for this. I'd say this is the gold standard for good posts in the Lounge.

But come on, Mom...

"I will not use language that I would not use around my kids."

Who the fuck do you think it was who fucking taught me to swear, God dammit? I didn't learn this shit in kindergarten, fa Chrissake.

:):):)

*ducking, fleeing*

[efhmc]

23. Sounds like a plan.

And an excellent one at that.