I just finished watching "Bowling for Columbine" on DVD

[anti_shrub]

I want to know why do people get so hung up on wether Lockheed Martin makes WMDs or not. There was a thread in GD that went over 125 replies and 90% of it was one guy arguing that the film is a sham because Moore makes a remark about Lockheed Martin making weapons in the same town as Columbine High School. From the tone the poster was showing, I was under the impression that Moore based the film over this idea of Lockheed making weapons. Having watched it, I don't see how it is that big of a deal even if they were making tiddlywinks in there. I saw it as a offhand remark based on Lockheed Martin being a company that profits off of the fear of others, a theme he revisted later on with the single mother. I hadn't seen the film until now, and knowing Moore's reputation (not to mention the Oscar speech) I was expecting an in your face style, which was the total opposite of what he did. I also remember the freeper types complaining about him "ambushing" Charlton Heston, and I saw nothing of the sort. Sure in hindsight, knowing now that he's battling Alzheimer's disease, it may look a bit mean for Moore to follow him down his walkway with a picture of the girl who got shot in the town he made a speech in a few days later but that's kind of the point.

Am I alone here?

[Maple]

1. If you don't want to hear the message

you put up a lot of barriers, and then cover your ears.

[enki23]

2. you're not alone

i don't believe he *did* say they made weapons in the same city. he definitely said they were the nation's largest weapons manufacturer, and said something about "mass destruction" but i don't think he actually said these particular rockets were going to be weapons themselves. either way, it's a trivial point. lockheed martin does indeed make a lot of weapons, and atlas rockets very well *were* made to carry nuclear payloads.

at best, it's extremely trivial point. i'd vote for no point at all.

as for charlton heston, that one's up for grabs. after seeing him giving his over-the-top performances near/in littleton and flint shortly after well-publicized shooting deaths left *me* with little sympathy for mr heston. he was president of the NRA, a political position in a brash, controversial political organization. the nra doesn't pull any punches, and charlton didn't pull any as its president. it's unfair at best to expect him to be treated with kid gloves by his opponents.

[anti_shrub]

9. I can see some of the points the critics make

Moore didn't make it clear what the plant in Littleton made, but I think the bigger concept was that Lockheed Martin as a company profits off of fear and they had a plant near Columbine.

People claim the NRA stuff was taken out of context, but the only thing they even come close to having a point on was just how far after the shooting in Flint was Heston's speech? For that matter, what's the statute of limitations on how long gun groups have to wait before having rallys in towns that have had shooting tragedies?

[Droopy]

3. I saw it for the first time yesterday

I also posted a thread about it. I was very impressed by the film and amazed at Hestons racist sounding statement at the end of the film. You know where he said we were a more violent society because of our ethnic diversity. Overall, I thought the film was enlightening despite a few minor flaws.

[mhr]

4. You Are Not Alone

I saw the movie and read it the same way you did. I thought it was a great documentary. The most compelling moment for me was when the Police Chief agreed that unrealistic "forced work" programs for the poor are a travesty.

[Keithpotkin]

5. hey!, is the DVD worth getting?

is there anything extra on it?

[anti_shrub]

6. There's some good stuff

It's a 2 disc set, the second disc is all special features. There's a clip of Moore talking about his Oscar speech (they wouldn't let him show the actual speech), a Marylin Manson video, a segment of Moore on Charlie Rose (I think) and a few other interview type things.

[wtmusic]

8. Yeah definitely worth getting

I enjoyed the interview with Marilyn Manson. Don't like their music but he's an entertainer. So what?

[anti_shrub]

10. He gave the best answer ever

When asked what he'd say to the Columbine families, his reply was "Nothing. I'd listen to what they had to say. No one else has."

That really struck me.

[wtmusic]

12. And didn't bat an eye

Struck me too.

[wtmusic]

7. You are Really, Really, Not Alone

Nah, he was OK. Lockheed Martin makes all kinds of parts for WMDs, cruise missiles and any number of other destructive weapons. It was a general point of view, but the thread quickly descended into petty specifics--and continued 4-FUCKING-EVER.

I thought Heston's comment about "ethnicity" betrayed him for the racist prick he is, so he's fair game after that. However, I think Moore could have pulled him out a little bit more.

Also--Moore's HAMMERING of K-Mart was downright unfair, seeing as ammo is available in virtually any sporting goods shop--they just happened to be nearby.

[anti_shrub]

11. Lets not forget

That the main source used by the critics is hardylaw, which proudly links revoketheoscar.com at the top of its page, which is run by a guy who was anti Moore before it was the trendy wingnut thing to do.