To any spiritual or religious people on this forum. I need guidance.

[coloradodem2005]

I deal with many conservative Christians and I need a liberal perspective. The main thing I am talking about is in regards to my friend who died. Even with my problems with Christianity, I still feel that there must be something after death. There needs to be some kind of God out there. The problem is, that many Christians I know, while many are good people are politically conservative. With the death of my friend, I have come back to the whole God, heaven and hell thing. I refuse to believe that he is no more. Though I was with the family tonight and got a little spooked about how they were saying that he was going to fight for Israel (the chosen people). I need to start finding my way spiritually. Don't bash these people. They are good people. I just want your opinions on God and the afterlife. Please help.

[wtmusic]

1. There doesn't need to be some kind of God out there

Read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. One of the principal voices of stoicism. A beautiful acknowledgement that it's really all over when you die--as well as a healthy outlook on living

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. I don't know what heaven will be like,

but it will be perfectly wonderful, spending time bathed in God's glory and in presence and, I like to think, a chance to meet up with all our loved ones and friends who died and I also hope a chance to find and discover people from the past and get to speak with them, like Lincoln and King David and Einstein and Saul who became Paul and ask them some questions...

Though I don't know, I am quite certain that in heaven we will not be asked to come back to earth to "fight" for any country. Seems awfully ungodly to me, since I believe that god HATES (but understands) that we have national boundaries and still kill each other over bullshit things like religion and land and refuse to share our resources fully and honorably, stuff that he told us about for about 4,000 years so far and we still haven't figured out.

That's my take. I can't guarantee it, but that's how I see it.

And as far as hell, I don't think anyone goes there unless they really, really want to go there. God's love and grace and forgiveness are far too vast for him (or her, however you want to see it) to send any of her (or his) children to hell. So, yeah, in my theology Hitler is in Heaven, and so will be Shrubbie and Unca Dick.

[madrchsod]

3. well from what my mom told me

when she had a near death experience-she walked to a bright light but someone called her back- i believed her. there is no heaven or hell in my mind and i know that i will never find out if i was right untill i die.. i hope there is something after death but it seems that after you die fighting for israel really isn`t what you should do after you die..for a decent study of the afterlife go to the eastern religions for insight

[DustMolecule]

4. Wha???

I deal with many conservative Christians
and
they were saying that he was going to fight for Israel (the chosen people).


O-kaaaaaaaaay....sounds like something 'conservative Christians' would say - NOT!!! But, I'm going off to bed here shortly.

[Cleita]

5. Your friend, who died, was he young or old?

I get the impression, he died in Iraq. Am I right? He won't be back except in your memories, however, you may get a feeling he is around. It's happened to me, so I know it happens. Take comfort that he is at peace. Open your mind to the fact that his essence is still around, take comfort in it and talk to him. It is like prayer.

[coloradodem2005]

14. He is young. He committed suicide. He did not die in Iraq.

[Desertrose]

15. suicide is always tough....

had a young man, friend of my kids....took his life by gunshot. Very sad...so much potential...a lost soul basically......

I really believe that we are Spirit spending time in human form.....god as an *entity* or person, doesn't make sense to me( that is man's limited perspective and making god in our image...I feel god/creator/spirit is much much more than that) ...more like this all encompassing energy of unconditional love...we choose to cut our memory off from that when we take human form...we hang about here on earth and then when we leave, we take what we gained here, back with us.

I would say some prayers for your friend that he finds his way back to that place of creator/spirit/love and releases all the pain that caused him to take his life in the first place. If a sould is lost when he takes his life, he can still feel lost when he is no longer in that body...so sending prayers and love will be of benefit.

As for hell..far as I'm concerned it is a manmade thing. I do not believe we are "sent" to such a place....same with heaven...the concepts are much larger than those labels....and if god/creator/spirit is LOVE, then that force would not condemn anyone to suffering.

I hope you find peace with your friend... I would talk to him (in your mind or even out loud if you feel comfortable with that ) as though he can hear you....tell him it is OK to find peace, he doesn't need to replay the suicide or hold on to those feelings that caused him to feel he had no choice but to take his life. Tell him he is loved and all will be OK.....whether you believe or not...can't hurt...

BTW the suicide happened in the house I am currently living in and we said many prayers and helped this young man find his way to the love/light/creator.

peace, love & :hug: coloradodem2004
DR

[Doug Decker]

6. I don't know if this will help, but...

I was raised Southern Baptist and what I took away from the experience was that God or the Universe or our spirituality is beyond the comprehension of human beings. I haven't kept much of the beliefs of the Southern Baptists, but I have always maintained that whatever happens to us after we die, is beyond our comprehension. We may become different beings in different worlds (that is one possibility), but those are worlds we could not even imagine. Those worlds can't be fathomed by us in this world. So while those worlds may be beyond my understanding, somehow, I find that conforting.

I hope you will, also.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

7. God & the afterlife

Thousands of years ago, early man sacrificed their young to appease the 'gods' who shook the earth, fired the volcanoes, or caused the drought.

Early man built temples and buried their dead and mummified the remains and put in their worldly possessions (even killed a few slaves for good measure) so they could travel over the Styx. But then of course, a few years go by and the dead are still dead and the worldy possessions become possessed by others.

Since physical evidence showed that our bodies just wither, then a great thinker decided it was our 'spirits' that left our bodies. 21 grams is the going weight I believe.

Now science says demons and spirits are simply physiological conditions caused by some breakdown in our biological nature. Even the spirits are in peril of becoming obsolete.

BUT THERE MUST BE SOMETHING.......

Well, I agree with that part. My adage is if there ISNT something else, then 'intelligence' was the worst evolutionary function to ever plague a species. But I recognize that is just a 'feeling' and nothing more.

So 'spiritually', let's hope God isn't the one spoke about in the Bible who was most often compared to being a Master to slaves.. but instead the current Loving Father which puts up with our stealing the car for a quick ride down the street, lying about where we were just 30 minutes ago, and he'll still give us our weekly allowance, because he loves us.. and he knows that down deep we really didn't mean any harm.. we're just learning our way.

But unfortunately, too many quickly damn others because they dont believe exactly like they want them too. I sure hope God doesn't throw 12 yo Muslim or Jewish children into the depths of hell because of something Jerry Falwell said. Because personally, I think heaven would be much better with those kids and withOUT the ilk like JF.

[boobooday]

8. In the Gnostic gospels, which were left out of the bible

Jesus said God is light that is in each one of us.

There could be existence after death -- there is, because we just become a different part of the universe.

When I was young, I worked in a nursing home, and I watched a lot of people die. I know that there is an energy that leaves the body when we die, but I don't know where it goes. It doesn't seem to be something we are supposed to be able to imagine, and when religious people do it, they always imagine it will be like earth only better, where they get everything they want, and there will be some sort of judgment that will perfectly reflect the judgment of their particular religious leaders. How silly that seems!

I also had a near-death experience (I'm insulin dependent for many years) where I actually felt like I was outside my body, and the one thing I know is that at that moment, I truly felt like things were going to be okay either way, but I didn't want to go, and somehow I knew it wasn't too late to choose. I didn't see a light, or anything like that, but I felt peaceful and omniscient, at least for a moment.

I don't know if there is a heaven, or even for sure anything but maybe some sort of energy conversion, but I know there is no hell.

I am sorry about your loss. :hug:

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[AwakeAtLast]

9. I think we all have a spirit

I also think you have to decide from where that spirit comes, and how you want it to impact your life. I know that does not sound like the answer you might have been looking for, but I truly believe each person has to find their own spiritual way. You may have done this already, but I suggest you study all that religion has to offer and decide what is best for you. I happen to be a Christian, but I do not find fault with any other religions. Contrary to what the Religious Right would have you believe, most Christians feel the same way. We are to lead by example, and that means loving everyone no matter who they are, no matter what they believe. If a person is moved to become a Christian because of how the person was treated, then I have done my job.

It sounds like the death of your friend has really had an effect on you. You have my sympathy! :hug:

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. Consider it this way.....

Picture all that is the universe as a perfectly still pond. And picture all that you are is a pebble dropped into the center of the pond. The instant the pebble hits the water it becomes one with the pond (The pebble becomes the pond) and the ripples that the pebble makes spread out to eternity. A wave never ends. It just slowly loses frequency and amplitude.

When you die, you merely go back to being part of an everlasting universe. Perfectly peaceful, never ending.

This gives me comfort. I was raised Christian but i am now Atheist. But i am not devoid of a spiritual sensibility. The idea that there is a place with streets paved with gold and a grand, old father figure to comfort you is, in my opinion, somewhat childish. To merely perceive that i will once again become part of what the stars are made of seems a bit more pragmatic and is just fine with me.

Life after death will be exactly the same as life before birth.

You don't remember that, do you?
The fact that you don't does not lesson the wonder or the grace.

I hope this is in some small way, a help.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

11. Faith is a difficult thing to explain, but here is my version

Each person has a differnent experience.

I went through several deaths in a 1 year time.

I had alot of trouble dealing with it, and an interim preacher helped me through it.
He also suggested that I read some books about "afterlife" experiences, where people have died and been revived, and what they saw.

Maybe that will help you.

Also, to believe in God, you don't always have to be completely
hit over the head believen', but all you need is faith the size of a mustard seed. Just a tiny bit.

Faith is not knowing, it is believing.

Another wise thing a pastor said was this: You may not understand
everything you have read (in the bible), some may seem to contradict.
You do not have to understand everything. All questions will be answered later.

(So, for those questions and things I have trouble reconciling with the "Bible" I just leave unanswered.)
I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone, I was taught that humans were given a free-will for a reason.

Good luck to you. Just a little faith is all that you need.

[Nomad559]

12. My theory Is this

None of us really die, the essence of what we are (this electrical energy) that pulses through our biological Body (machine) Is released back Into the Universe (from which we all come from) when our biological Body ceases to function. :)

[tainted_chimp]

13. I'm not a religious person

and I'm not even really sure what it means to be spiritual. But I hope this might resonate;

(by R.M. Rilke)

"Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart. Try to love the questions themselves."


hope this helps.

Sorry about your friend....

~Lisa

[TheWizardOfMudd]

16. Some prefer the Church Of Satan

Not that Satan is necessarily an entity to be worshipped. It is my understanding that members of that church believe man is responsible for those earthly matters with which mankind must deal, alone, without praying blindly to an invisible man in the sky.

They believe it is up to us to solve our problems, without being so weak and worthless as to ask an imaginary supreme being to do it for us instead.

Just another perspective.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. "If God didn't exist, we would have to invent him."

I don't remember who said that, maybe it was Voltaire.

We are a spritual species. It comes from our unique abilities for abstract thought and self-awareness. Are our beliefs in what is "out there," including the afterlife, merely delusions and wishful thinking, or great truths passed down through the ages?

Ultimately, it makes little difference. We each seek a path through this life, and it is that journey which is important. God, and the afterlife, are by nature inscrutable. They are as difficult to understand as movement in a twelfth dimension--completely beyond our limited powers of reason or observation.

After all of the millions of words written over so many years from so many intellects, I can only say that those who pass on perhaps live again in another, better, world, but to us they live as memories, and while that may not be as comforting as thoughts of Heaven, it is still immortality in its own way.

You say this was a suicide, and we know that Christian beliefs do not speak well of suicide. But, God's mercy is far more complicated than simply taking this one act and deciding his fate for eternity. God's mercy extends to healing the pain that caused this act. If there is a hell, one must beg to be sent there, and not be consigned to it just because one doesn't know the best way to heal his own pain. The whole point of God, to us, is that he not be so callous and vain. God does not gamble with the souls of his creation.

Shakespeare summed it up-- "...to sleep, perchance to dream."

[Mnemosyne]

18. No hell below us, above us only sky

"God" could never punish someone in such terrible pain as to end their own life. If "God" is a loving entity then it is not even a consideration. Your friend is One now and at peace.