Improving IT industry? Nope. But that's okay, some demand is returning.

[Deja Q]

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5229367.html

Hmmm, what can a PC expert with some web design skills do these days, in a country that doesn't give a flying fuck about its citizens unless they're still trapped in the mommy they don't give a fuck about either?

A co-worker of mine thinks society will revolt if the corporate greed continues unchecked and the people start to wake up... It's not a pleasant thought and, worse, she said it openly in public - which was a bit shocking. Can our society really get that low?! :tinfoilhat:

[Deja Q]

1. I also shudder to think if this response is genuine:

http://zdnet.com.com/5208-1104-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=3693&messageID=76583&start=9

:shrug:

[Xithras]

2. Sorry, web design skills are permanently useless

UI design is UI design, and UI designers have been around since before the web was even a wet dream.

A properly designed website needs three kinds of people: A UI designer to work out a natural and flowing navigational structure, a graphic artist to make it pretty, and a programmer to implement the whole thing. The concept of the "Web Designer" was a short-lived late-90's fad job that will (hopefully) never be seen again.

[Deja Q]

5. Much like photographers...

Most everyone knows it's a shit industry, overcrowded with people trying to make a living with it, doing weddings or Sears portraits. How colleges can peddle "Digital photography" classes and the like is beyond me.

And why are you against people having a damn job to live off of? If it weren't for web designers, neither of us would be here. Thanks to books and classes, the first two roles are merged into one. A programmer for the java/cgi/perl stuff is the only difference.

I can handle some cynicism, but this concept of "fad job that will hopefully never be seen again" is despicable. Period. I bet a lot of those jobs are being seen in India. So we're not seeing them here. And it's not an easy job either. People damn well should get paid well for doing it.

In a society where people entrusted with protecting data get paid only thrice that of a McWaiter (network administrator jobs are fewer and pay a lot less despite the massive increase of responsibility and risk, I sure as hell wouldn't want that job. No fucking way), it makes me very mad indeed.

Well, you seem to be the Grand Master Overlord of what a real job is, so be a real man and tell us what we should all be. Managers, you say?! Once a manufacturing economy became a service economy, people complained. Now we're ditching the better paying service jobs while hiring more managers... A nation of managers, what next? But 300 million managerial jobs?!

I could rant on any number of tangents forever. I've got better things to do.

[Xithras]

6. Nope, the late 90's web designer paradigm was seriously flawed.

I've been programming for 15 years, and have been doing web application development since 1994. The "Web Designer" role was a farce position designed by self-taught Photoshop groupies who read "FrontPage For Dummies" or "Program HTML In 10 Days" and thought they could make a living at it.

UI design is much more involved than just coming up with a pretty interface, and I know of very few businesses that still treat it as a glorified graphic design position. UI designers rarely touch either code or graphics tools themselves, their job is to take a set of program or website requirements and design intuitive navigational flowcharts that take into account both ease of use and potential server loading.

Graphic designers, likewise, also rarely code. In modern web programming teams, the graphic designer is handed a list of required screens and a brief summary of the text type or data elements to be presented on each screen. The designer then assembles the graphical elements required for that screen into a page template.

The programmer takes the flowchart and images, and makes it all work. No graphics work, and no navigational comprehension required. He's given the parts to the structure, and simply has to assemble it.

The problem with the old "web designer" paradigm was that it required people to have an excellent understanding of human/computer interface concepts AND an excellent understanding of graphics arts technologies AND good programming skills in a number of languages. While there were some people that managed to master these skills, 99% of "web designers" were only adept at one or two, when all three are REQUIRED to build a decent site.

And here's why there's no future in web design. UI design is the kind of thing that's done once, when a site is initially created, and then isn't done again until the site is redesigned. It makes no sense to keep an employee on staff that you'll only use now and then, so this has been permanently relegated to consultants. Likewise, graphic design skills are typically only occasionally needed in all but the largest organizations, so graphic artists are also only brought in as consultants by 95% of employers. Programmers are the only people needed regularly, as functionality tends to change with some regularity. In most institutions, however, it's more economical to teach your C++ or Java programmer PHP or .Net than it is to bring in a dedicated web programmer.

The idea of a full-time web specific job is a fad. When I began working at my current job a few years back, we had no less than FOUR people who's jobs simply involved updating the text on a dozen various websites. They thought they were "skilled" because they knew how to use Dreamweaver and Hotmetal, and that as "webmasters", they were indispensable.

Last year I implemented a content management system that allows unskilled secretaries and clerks to update their own web content with about 10 minutes of training.

Today, we have no webmasters.

[brokensymmetry]

3. Can our society really get that low?!

Sure. It's headed that way, you know.

The middle class, as such, is dying. You have the wealthy and the poor.

Someone making, say, $100,000 per year would surely think that they were rich; they would be wrong. The capital required to maintain such a lifestyle is on the order of $20,000,000 and they don't have it. If they were unemployed for six months they would be in as much trouble as the waitress or the typist.

Such a state of affairs is not stable. It will get worse as inflation ignites and makes the cost of getting by greater. Ultimately, the traditional poor, and the newly poor will become disaffected with society. They will get poorer - and more angry.

They may not do anything. However, they may not be inclined to lift a finger if the country is in trouble.

No, I'm sorry to say it, but I perceive a bleak future.

[Deja Q]

4. Life is what we make of it. What must our past generations think?

You are right. They will either see those in power as the source and do something about it.

Or.

They will see those in power as the source and sit back and do nothing as they continue to tie the noose around their own necks.

Anybody who believes America is a land of opportunity and prosperity is a damn fool. Unless they're one of the top 2%.

And the wealthy are exterminating the middle class. 24 years of climbing graphs can't be wrong. (24 years of constant climb, without a downward re-stabilization trend between 1992-2000...)

When I lose my final job and cannot get another in a sufficient period of time, I will have to kill myself neatly and quietly. There will be no place for me to go, and I will not live homeless, in a box where each passing day makes me less "economically viable"... I have enough health problems already as it is, I wouldn't be able to survive anyway as a homeless person. Don't think I'm crazy, I'm doing what little I can to remain viable, but the phrase "not being appreciated" is quite apropos in the environment I work for, nor am I sure that applying for this new job 200 miles away will ultimately be of benefit...

My only solace is that those with money will not be able to survive after the oil runs out, unless "peak oil" becomes a reality instead of a hypothesis. And I am laughing in their faces.

BTW: The country already is in big trouble. It has been for some time. Bush* merely pushed it over the edge of the precipice. "Bleak future" is something of an understatement.

Did our parents and grandparents expect our society to turn into such a cesspool of un-prosperity with no opportunity?

[brokensymmetry]

7. Did our parents and grandparents

No - they believed in community, something our society no longer accepts. Not just "no longer encourages" or "no longer supports"; truly, "no longer accepts". Members of a community care about each other and help each other.

We are a profoundly segregated society. When I use that term, people immediately think of race - but that isn't what I'm referring to. We are segregated economically into discrete and carefully separated strata.

The CEO does not live in the same neighborhood as the middle manager, who in turn would not wish to be seen in the area where the factory worker resides - who wouldn't think of going where the unemployed poor make their home. The different groups see nothing of each other, and know less. From ignorance comes fear, but no understanding.

I'm sorry that you're facing the job problems you mention. I think we will see some interesting times, between us. And I thank God I don't have children.