Liz Phair "sells out" again - and I love it!

[Paragon]

This is pretty much the visual I have in my head when I listen to "Flower" or "H.W.C." :D

http://www.stuffmagazine.com/cover_girls/html/girl_388.html

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. I wish when she'd sold out she bought some good music to go with it.

[Gothic Sponge]

2. I loved her first album, but she has really sold out!

[DavidMS]

42. I believe there were some recordings before Guysville

but they were tapes distributed to a few friends (unforutunately).

I saw her earlier this year and it was amazing. Although I perfered Guysville (its completely about being young stupid and in love), I don't think her newer pieces are that bad, its more a case of Guysville being so good.

Also would a 36 year old woman write guysville? Probably not.

[Beware the Beast Man]

3. I was never a huge fan-

but when she turned into Avril's big sister, that finally did it for me. She is quite the looker, though :)

EDIT: Her sellout wasn't nearly as laughable as Jewel's either!

[Paragon]

4. There's a reason I put "sellout" in quotes

It's not a sellout. Her music has always had a pop rock sound, and liking pop music (as Liz admits she unabashedly does) doesn't make you the antiChrist.

It's pretty ridiculous to think that Liz can sing about sex but isn't allowed to look sexy.

Liz is great - I love her.

[XNASA]

5. I was never a huge fan........but I am now.

I have always enjoyed the guitar work on her stuff. The tones, the Midwestern Power-Pop sensibilities, etc....

I just never really liked the songs that much.

But Liz looks great for a 36 year old mom, I'll give her that.

[Loonman]

6. When you are popular because your music has broad appeal

You are a "sellout".


Fucking snobs, the new Phair is her best shit to date.

Poorly recorded indie crap is still.....crap.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. 'Best shit?'

It's simplistic and one-dimensional, and her lyrical ability appears to have nose-dived.

Why can't I breathe whenever I think about you
Why can't I speak whenever I talk about you

Why can't I breathe whenever I think about you
Why can't I speak whenever I talk about you
It's inevitable, it's a fact that we're gonna get down to it
So tell me
Why can't I breathe whenever I think about you

Frankly, those are pretty lame.

[Misunderestimator]

9. Hmmm.... well, personally, I haven't heard her new stuff

but weirdly, I can relate to those lyrics... :)

[Loonman]

11. So were the Beatles

They were the best damn rock band, period, who lived off of silly, simple love songs, and they could play their instruments and operate a 4-track properly.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. Silly, complicated love songs.

Phair's new material is vacuous, tiresome and childish. The Beatles, from very early on, had a peerless sense of dynamics and unorthodox chord structures. There is no comparison between Liz Phair and The Beatles.

[Paragon]

15. Good.

Number of Liz Phair CDs I have = 4
Number of Beatles CDs I have = 0

Plus, Paul & Ringo would never look this good in lingerie -- not to mention John & George.

:7

[Loonman]

17. Lyrical content

I'm not talking about "sense of dynamics and unorthodox chord structures", I'm talking about simple, catchy songs.


I just mentioned the Beatles as an analogy because people sometimes say to me:, "you should like this band, they're Irish", so I say, "They're Irish? So what? So's the IRA".

[Screaming Lord Byron]

19. Don't discount the IRA's ability with a three-minute pop song.

Sure, the more recent material blows, but the first couple of records have a constancy that modern music is sadly lacking.

[Susang]

18. There's a comparison, alright

But it isn't pretty. ;-)

[Westegg]

24. OF COURSE there's no comparison...

...Because Beatles and Liz are many generations apart. I thought Liz's first album was unique and somewhat groundbreaking, but she clearly chose to move in a different direction after that. Bad managment? Some commerce-minded svengali shaping her career? I know very few details about Liz and have never read an interview or an article about her, so I can't say. I dug almost half of her second record, and literally haven't listened to her since then, but my general take is that she has, after that first album, struggled to find her niche and has erred on the side of commercial trends in pop music whilst attempting this. To no avail, yeah? Nothing more poignant that an artist who debuts with an indie gem, then takes a hard right towards the commercial yet fails to garner a hit. Maybe she simply shot her wad (sorry, there's no female equivalent) with that first record. Wouldn't be the first time an artist has transmuted 20-some years of life experience into a viable statement and had nothing much left to say after that.

[emulatorloo]

25. that's not the only song on the CD

if you don't like it, that's cool. . .but I don't think theres a truly bad song in the bunch.

[Gothic Sponge]

10. IMO it's all calculated songs that pander to the masses.

[Loonman]

12. I see your point

We have to keep being non-conformist.



:crazy:

[Paragon]

13. You mainstream-loving evildoer!

:silly:

[Gothic Sponge]

16. No

Musicians should write music for themselves first. If everyone wrote songs to please the world we'd have nothing but cookie cutter britney spears music. Liz has lost the style that made her unique. Now it's all junk pop songs.

[ACK]

27. Sure a song called Hot White Cum is just the thing for the masses

That is the same damn album.

She writes one fun little pop song that gets major play and she is freakin' sellout.

Give me a break.

Oooooh no it was on a few album teen movie soundtracks too that is certainly evil.

_

[Screaming Lord Byron]

31. Let me acquaint you with the phrase 'sex sells'

for that matter, so does controversy.

[ACK]

32. Let me introduce with the term consistent

She has done the same sort sexual lyrics since she started out.

Even when the indie rockers considering her a darling in their fickle eyes.
_

[Screaming Lord Byron]

33. OK, then I guess she's always been a sellout.

Works for me.

[ACK]

34. A woman speaking frankly about sex is selling out? Riiiiight.

Exile in Guyville was a completely acoustic album with lyrics that reflected like the diary of a person's soul mixed with songs and sparse hooks that mixed effortlessly with an in your face frankness about her desires as woman.

That first album was no sell-out album which plays into the fact I think you are full of shit going into the she was sell-out from the start rant.

_

[Paragon]

35. What an exhausting thread.

Musical snobs ranting about their versions of artistic relevance.

I think once you call someone else a sellout, YOU're a sellout.

:D

[ACK]

36. Wrong! I said I had heard White Stripes sold out but ...

I only knew them from the two songs I heard on the radio and I was asking opinions on new music out right now.

I have "White Blood Cells" in my CD changer right now.

Interesting minimalist style but is definitely made for a certain mood.

Besides I am not the one calling this or that artist a sellout here and no I am not addressing that to you since you used quotes in your original post.

_

[Screaming Lord Byron]

37. She's a sellout. Has been from birth.

In fact, I'm not convinced of her integrity in-utero, either.

[ACK]

38. Whatever .....

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

39. Well, I clearly won this argument.

Winning them over to good taste one at a time.

[ACK]

40. Nope... The last remark you made simply indicated

You had never heard Exile in Guyville or probably anything beyond the that song you did not like so you were just spouting.

Have no idea what you constitute as good taste anyway.

Have no idea what music you even like.

_

[Screaming Lord Byron]

41. I've heard everything she ever recorded. It's all rubbish

Every single word and note.

[ACK]

43. Then taste is not your problem .... you have none

Hard to bring someone over to something you don't have.

_

[Screaming Lord Byron]

44. I have the best taste on the planet. I mean, that's just obvious.

[tigerbeat]

46. tremendous taste actually.

which makes me all the more concerned for your unexplained distaste for liz phair and/or ani difranco.

but i'll overlook it as you are one of the few people whose posts on music i go out of my way to read.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

47. I'm just seeing how far I can take this.

It's post psychosis. People take music way too seriously, and they take the opinions of others way too seriously on the same subject. Anybody who read my posts in this thread, would, I hope, realise that I'm just being an ass. It's fun. And this is The Lounge after all.

[Fenris]

48. Liz Phair is a Goddess!

Cum-guzzling Goddess!

[ACK]

49. Yes, I realize that and I should have put in an evil smiley

Here I will make up for that now.

:evilgrin:

[Susang]

8. Blech

Didn't like her when she lived here, still don't like her. She used to write decent songs. Now she just whines a lot. And she still can't sing to save her life. :puke:

[radwriter0555]

20. what the hell happened to her head? it's like 28 sizes too big for her

body?

that's one of the worst photos I've ever seen, and I LOVE liz phair.

Looks photoshopped to me, actually.

[Susang]

21. Its that Merv Griffin theory

He said that if you had a disproportionately large head, you were more likely to become famous. I swear, I'm not making this up!

[Paragon]

22. That explains Conan O'Brien

(with Mike Myers I Married An Axe Murderer Scottish brogue)
Heed! Down!
That's a huge noggin!
It's so beeg it's got its own weather system!

[phillybri]

29. Ben Affleck fits that bill...

I can't see any other reason he'd be famous...

[ACK]

23. Don't care --- its good music

What Can't I is pure pop so what?

HWC - Hot White Cum is the same vicious musing sexual music that I have always liked from here.

I like her first "sellout" song Supernova the best though.

Oh yeah, of course I adore her first album and Fuck and Run is great.

She is soooo beautiful, sexual and hot.

_

[RandomKoolzip]

26. Ick! She always sucked. Never liked Liz Phair.

She can't sing and she's horny. So am I; where's my record contract?

If she didn't talk dirty she'd be just another boring post-alt folkie with an annoying voice. She sucked when she was "indie" and now she sucks for a major label. Just not hearing what people are raving about here. Barbara Manning was a lot more interesting.....

[Fenris]

28. I second that. She might have been unpopular, but she's always sucked.

To sell out usually implies that one was musically adequate and notable in the first place.

[RandomKoolzip]

30. She sounds like a vaccum cleaner.

Seriously, she drones on and on, regardless of key, occasionally saying something like "blowjob" or "Fuck" or "Cum," and all of a sudden she's the second coming of Chrissie Hynde? Oh, how naughty. (yawn.) I don't think so.

Take away the dirty words and she's an even lamer version of Lisa Loeb or Alanis Morrisette.

[tigerbeat]

45. less "sell-out" more "embarrassing"

i really dig phair's first three albums (i think "whitechocolatespaceegg" is vastly underrated) and to be honest i'm ok with three or four of the songs off of the new album. it's the shitty production from "the matrix" juxtaposed with workman-like but still decent production from michael penn on the same album that drives me bananas. unlike her previous efforts it sounds like a bunch of singles rather than a coherent disc....and even then half of the songs are the worst she's ever written. (for what it's worth, i like the single. stupid, disposable lyrics, but i like the hook and i'm pretty sure i would think more of it if it wasn't from the woman who wrote "uncle alvarez")

that said, i'd forgive an uneven, poorly produced album at this point in her career if it wasn't accompanied by a vacuous, shallow, immature image makeover that is clearly calculated to endear her to younger (read "idiotic") teeny-bopper audience. the picture above is just plain embarrassing. i'm 36 and i think she's perfectly beautiful as is. this attempt to make her look 25 makes me more than a little queasy.