Free weights vs. Bowflex or Soloflex?

[TheWizardOfMudd]

I say free weights, because additional muscles are used/strengthened by:

1) The whole body being used to support the weights, and;

2) Balancing and holding the weights straight while doing reps.

But I don't have a lot of experience with the machines.

What say you?

[Political_Junkie]

1. Machines are fine for toning.

For development you need free weights.

[mede8er]

2. I second......

that........

[gpandas]

3. me too, and they are much cheaper n/t

[laruemtt]

4. free weights - no contest.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. How free weights (probably) work

The machines take away the opportunity to train one's ability to actually place the weights where you want them. On a machine, all you're doing is working the muscles -- with free weights, kettle bells, etc., you're doing real work in your body's physical environment.

Don't get me wrong, the work done by Arthur Jones, Ellington Darden, and the other machine trainers has been excellent and has promoted both the sport and the science. But we've only just discovered the reasons for the "magic" of free-weight training.

I'm broke, myself, but I work out by putting books in a grocery bag and doing curls and lifts with them. It's been a lot better than when I had money and trained on Nautilus and HammerForce machines.

--bkl
Macho, yes. But willing to let the little girl out to play. :)

[midnight armadillo]

13. kettle bells!!

Holy crap, someone on DU mentioned kettlebells! I have two, the 16 kg and 24 kg ones. I need to use them more.

I just ordered a Captains of Crush gripper from Ironmind.com :-)

[Dogmudgeon]

19. That's how I learned the shopping bag trick

They resemble kettle bells, especially when it comes to the dynamics of lifting them.

Giri in Russian -- with a hard "G". The sport was popular before the Indo-European invasions, and was preserved by the Kartvelian people in the Caucasus and by the Basques in the Pyrenees. It would be interesting to see if the Etruscans and the Minoans had similar kinds of weights, since they're pre-Indo-European peoples, too.

Four of those two-liter soda bottles give you a 16-pound load -- about 7 kg. If you're training with 16 and 24 kg giri (35 and 53 pounds), you've got my respect!

--bkl

[Misunderestimator]

6. I say Bowflex...

You can target muscle groups more easily... and you get the benefits lifting and returning. Besides... A LOT less heavy than free weights to move. I think there are benefits to both, but my interest is more in toning than building... and I think Bowflex does the trick.

[11cents]

7. For home use, free weights

There are a few machine exercises that I find valuable which can't be duplicated with free weights (e.g., lat pulls). I do those at a gym. But free weights are the core equipment for weight training, IMHO, and all you really *need*, so why bother with home machines and their expense and space requirements.

[4_Legs_Good]

8. I love my Bowflex...

... but then again I'm scrawny as hell and can't seem to gain much.

What am I doing wrong?

Anyway, as was said, Bowflex is good for isolating areas, you don't have to have a spotter, you don't need to worry about dropping weights, and, probably most importantly, it stops momentum better than weights. I go to the gym and see these guys throwing weights around and really, I don't think they're getting much of a workout.

But then I notice that they're 10 times as big as me and say... hmmmmmmm...

I use the Bowflex at home 3 times a week and go to the gym two times a week.

I need advice too...

david

[TheWizardOfMudd]

9. You need to start eating a lot of cheeseburgers and shakes

;)

[4_Legs_Good]

10. Hee hee, but I'm a vegetarian...

which *might* have something to do with it. But I've been scrawny since long, long before I stopped eating meat.

I do do a lot of protein supplements these days - mostly soy.

david

[Kenneth ken]

15. one banana

and a 10 ounce glass of water before every meal. That will help.

[4_Legs_Good]

18. That sounds just crazy enough to work.

Thanks :)

david

[TheWizardOfMudd]

16. You definitely need protein

Beans?

[Dogmudgeon]

20. Avoid soy!

It contains phytochemicals that are pseudo-estrogens. Small amounts of soy after age 35 can help reduce the chance of heart attack and stroke, but large amounts at any age can interfere with the male estrogen-androgen chemical "pathways". (Females get much milder effects). Aromatization of estrogenic compounds is a potent demasculinizer AND cancer promoter.

Tofu, tempeh and other cultured soy products have been shown to have far less of these compounds, but if you're a man, use them with discretion and attention to your performance. If what you're doing is helping, great, but control is always essential.

Proteins based on whey are much better for you. They also have chemical fractions that enhance healing. Overall, if you pay close attention to how your food and your training makes you feel and perform, you have the best chance.

--bkl

[4_Legs_Good]

21. No Soy! Doh! I didn't know that.

Thanks for the advice.

Most of my protein is from supplements, but I have been tending towards soy supplements for a while. Vege Fuel, Omega Blast, Spiru-tein. My staple, though, has been Isopure, but I recently read the ingredients list, and it's got BSA, which really grosses me out. I'll still try to gag it down and pretend I didn't read the list. 50g and easy to mix is hard to pass up.

Any better recommendations?

My regular dietary intake of protein is not very high. Beans, eggs, dairy and occassional tofu as well as other vegetable protein, but it's rarely on purpose; I just eat what's available. Lotsa carbs, lotsa dairy.

david

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Protein an' stuff

Well, in spite of the attention-grabbing headline I made before, a little soy is OK. The problems happen in men with vulnerable sex-hormone synthesis who eat a lot of soy -- a couple pounds of tofu a week, plus soy nuts, plus tempeh, plus soymilk. It is a similar situation to the development of male-pattern (abdominal) obesity and prostate enlargement. Mary Enig, the scientist who first brought the dangers of trans-fats to public attention, has been working on the problems -- and uses -- of soy protein products.

Second, while you don't need a huge amount of protein, it does NOT appear that reasonably large amounts of it hurt you. For years, John Gray and company have been telling people that protein will leach the calcium out of their bones, but the studies they cite are fairly old and have serious experimental flaws. Follow-up and replication studies show no such effect. Unless you have kidney disease, you don't have to worry about tweaking your protein to keep it low.

The customary rule of thumb is 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. You can cut that down a little if you're losing weight and staying active. But there is little reason to keep your protein as low as possible. Even a vegetarian can get enough protein through careful meal planning -- you'll need to supplement for B12, and supplementation will also make it less necessary to plan your eating in painful detail.

My own protein supplement is just the garden-variety whey protein. I usually mix it with powdered milk and substitute two meals with it. It allows me to keep a low enough level of calorie intake to produce weight loss, but inhibits protein loss that low-calorie diets usually promote. (I'm also pretty active physically.) The stuff is relatively tasty, healthful, and cheap. It mixes easily with powdered milk, juice, or even with water -- I just use a spoon to stir it instead of using a blender or a shaker. A tablespoon of corn starch makes it fairly thick, and I'm looking for some food-grade guar gum to replace that with.

I never heard of Isopure or BSA, but the heavily branded and marketed "precision engineered performance foods" tend to be way overpriced. Whey isolate powder, and even soy isolate powder, are pretty basic foodstuffs.

Most athletes, and even most people into healthful eating, don't eat nearly enough vegetables. If you're like most people, you could probably stand to eat more. Get some recipes that sound good and try some of them. The same thing could be said for fruit, but some people (like Yours Truly) can't eat very much of it.

I'm not a doctor, but this is all pretty basic food advice, none of it original or novel. Education is the best over-all medical treatment you can get. Good luck!

--bkl

[4_Legs_Good]

23. Super! Thanks!

BSA is bovine serum albumin and is a compoent in cow blood. I don't know if it's a common protein additive or not, and it may also be a by-product of milk protein extraction, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice! I definitely need to up the vegetable intake, though I'm usually okay on fruit.

david

[DancingBear]

11. Free weights

Free weights w/Smith machines are ideal - they keep the bar on its proper path when doing things like bench presses and squats. I have a tendency to "tip" or roll the bar when doing squats, so the Smith machine is invaluable in preventing injuries - I torn a rotator cuff "pre-Smith," but it was just from accumulated useage and old age. :)

As for Bowflex, etc. - well, you sure see a lot used ones for sale. I don't care for them at all, but I would think from a toning aspect they would be OK. If that couple on the infomercial got those bodies from Bowflex I'll eat my hat.

edit: I'm a long time vegetarian, too - it is very tough to gain muscle mass without meat, no matter what anyone says.

[4_Legs_Good]

12. Doh!

Okay, so I have a bowflex and I like it and like using it, but After a year of pretty serious use, I've gained 10 pounds-ish of muscle mass. I'm 33 years old and never worked out on any regular basis until before I was 30.

Is it too late for me? I'm 6'2" and weigh in at 165 with very little fat. I'd like to get to 180 and then worry about toning and maintaining.

Any chance or is it too late for me? I'd be willing to use more free weights for some stuff, but I'd like to keep using the Bowflex as well.

I feel my clock ticking here, and I don't wanna waste my last shot at not being scrawny my whole life.

Thanks for the tips so far!

david

[JanMichael]

14. 33 isn't OLD! I'm 36 and in about the best shape that I've ever been in.

Then again it may be easier for me. I'm 5'8" with a medium build and I've never been "skinny" or "fat"...Plus I've exercised regularly since I was 17 or so.

BTW we're looking to get a Bowflex in the near future for it's (relative) compact size, it's good to hear that you like it!

[4_Legs_Good]

24. Glad to hear I'm not too old!

But it is kinda older to start, I think. I wish I would have gotten more serious earlier. Oh well!

Good luck with the Bowflex, even if it doesn't build lots of muscle mass, it does tone well and it *definitely* makes you feel better about yourself physically and it's kinda fun, so it promotes further investments of time and effort. I know that had I not gotten it and stuck with a gym only, I would have fallen off the wagon 10 times since then. It's great at keeping you going.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement!

david

[Kenneth ken]

17. my opinion

I've actually owned free weights, bowflex and soloflex.

Soloflex is or can be good if you're under 6 ft tall. I'm 6'3" and was not able to get a full range of motion on some exercises. A woman I was daitng at the time was 5'5", she didn't have range of motion problems with it.

Free weights took up a lot of space. I had a bench and olympic size bar bell (6 ft long) that means about 36 sq ft of space, plus room to add/subtract plates to the bar. Additionally, I had a lat machine. Kind of sucks to get caught under a really heavy bench press, and have to roll the bar down the length of your torso because you're not working with a spotter. I think free weights are generally more easy to injure your self with.

Bowflex is good for range of motion, having separate cable for each side, allows for working similar to dumb bells - i.e. no cheating the way you can with a bar bell. It has a 410 pound maximum limit, which for me only affects how heavy I can go on a couple leg exercises. I could squat more than 410 if Bowflex would let me.

Bottom line, I think pretty much any type of exercise equipment will improve your physical appearance, health and fitness - as long as you use it regularly. Regular use is the part most people have a hard time with, regardless of equipment.

( One last little plug for Bowflex - they have a chair-oriented machine, for those who are wheel chair confined. I thought it was a pretty cool thing when I saw it on their web site. )