Now I think that we are doomed.

[No2W2004]

So, I go into this chat session, I guess there are mostly 20 year olds there. One says she is "persian". A guy ask "where's persia?" I tell them it's now called Iran. "Where's Iran?" I tell them it's next to Iraq. "Oh, yeah, I remember something about hostages or something" "They don't like the Shahs there do they" So, I go thru the whole deal with the embassy staff being taken hostage and Reagan fucking Carter over by giving weapons to Iran to delay the release. One guy says," Wow, you must be a history major. Most of us don't know history"
(I'm not, by the way, just a 40 year old father of 2 who fucking pays attention)
I told them Why not? History lets you see how the government is gonna screw you ahead of time.

No wonder we have Shrub occupying the White House.

[fortyfeetunder]

1. Yoo're right most of them don't know history

And probably not knowing jack about anything else except living for the present.

Unfortunately, thanks to NCLB, history will not be a staple course for Murkan high school students....

[MikeG]

2. 300 million in the country. 100 million vote. Need I say more?

[AwakeAtLast]

3. They don't know about the draft proposal either, I bet

"History lets you see how the government is gonna screw you ahead of time."

Love that! Good answer!

[No2W2004]

6. "History repeats itself"

One of my major beliefs. History does repeat because people refuse to learn the lessons from the past.

[Langis]

4. When I was 20 I knew about as much as them

That that was only 4 years ago!

[No2W2004]

8. All I can say is good for you

for paying attention now. Read "Peoples History of the US". Not a huge book, not "dry" reading. Very informative.

[Langis]

10. I just read it about 6 months ago

Great book!

[BeHereNow]

5. Ask them this...

Which countries border Iraq?
BWAHAHAHA!
:evilgrin:

[No2W2004]

7. They had no clue!

They didn't know where Iran was! No Idea at all.

BTW, I saw your post. Are you just heading east? I live in the NW suburbs of Chicago.

[BeHereNow]

12. YUP!

Trying to get some DUers form the area to meet up and
go see F911 with me on Saturday the 26th!
PM me if ya wanna go...
BHN

[Pobeka]

9. Hey.

:hi:

[BeHereNow]

13. Where be you Pobeka?

I am road tripping thru the midwest for a few weeks-
I would LOVE to get together with you!
There are a few definite destinations, but other that
those, I plan to throw a dart at the map and improvise
the days between...heh-hee.
BHN

[Pobeka]

18. I be here - now.

Sorry, could not resist ;-)

I'm sweltering in Tacoma.

Let me check my schedule, there may be a possibility in Bloomington for a cup of coffee.

[BeHereNow]

23. KOOBAH-DOOBAH!

I know there are some swell DUers in Bloomington and
I love that area.
That's right, you be in Tacoma- now.
And yes I am pm-able, pms-able certain days of the month.
But I be-not-that-now, so everyone can be now safe.

[Pobeka]

21. Are you PM-able? n/t

[Pobeka]

11. Be fair to the kids -- not their fault - history isn't taught anymore.

Nor is geography.

.. not seriously.

It's how those in power stay in power -- DON'T LET THE MASSES GET EDUCATED!

[Tamiati]

15. Dumbing Down of America

As a mother of teenagers, I am surprised how many lack interest in much of anything but games, hangin out and living life.

Actively encourage all children to become more involved in history, listen to the issues and to vote to be heard.

I also believe that the lessons of the past, could be our key to any measure of success.....if we would but pay attention...

[No2W2004]

16. Agreed...

Hell, it wasn't really taught when I went to school either. Most of what I know, I read for myself. I knew more about WWII than my high school history teacher.

Thing is, it's not complicated. It's not boring when you really get into it and see how men manipulated events over time. And it is relivant to now. Bread & Circuses anyone?

These poor kids who are gonna get drafted have no idea what's about to hit them.

[Pobeka]

20. Oh jeez, the LAST thing they'd teach is how govt's manipulate the public.

Can you imagine? Everyone in DC would have a s**t fit!

Upon reflection, most of my history and geography was pretty sanitized, in the 60's and 70's when I was in public schools.

[No2W2004]

22. I went to school in the 70s & early 80s

God, wouldn't it be fantastic to have ONE semester just devoted to William Randolph Hearst?

[TiredTexan]

14. I just finished "All the Shah's Men"

which tells why the Iranians took over our embassy in 1978. In 1953, the CIA, at the urging of the British, overthrew the validly elected prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mosadegh. We did this because Mosadegh nationalized the oil. British Petroleum had been essentially stealing it for years, while enslaving Iranian workers in horrendous living conditions and refusing any concessions in spite of numerous attempts at negotiations by the Iranian government. The British tried to sell this idea Truman, who refused by saying "We don't overthrow other democracies." When Eisenhower came into office in 1953, the British were quickly successful in selling the plan to Allan Dulles, Eisenhower's Secretary of State. The CIA operation was conducted out of our embassy in Tehran in August of 1953, and after their success, they installed the Shah who ruled brutally for 25 years until overthrown by the fundamentalists. And sadly, before the CIA's actions, the Iranians loved us and had fashioned their budding secular democracy after the US model.

The whole thing came to a head in 1978 when Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah to come to the US after his overthrow. The Iranians believed that we intended to stage another coup to reinstall the Shan, and took over our embassy to prevent it. A perfect example of "Blowback."

The Iranians are still getting their revenge. They more recently gave false intelligence to Ahmed Chalabi so he could feed it to us in order to induce us into invading Iraq. It worked. Their plan is to make Iraw into another Sunni state when we leave.

All the Shah's Men is one of the best books I've ever read. Everything happening now in the Middle East can be traced to the 1953 coup. It makes me shudder to see how the chickens came home to roost over there, and to think of the future when they may come home to roost for our actions in this hemisphere in Chili, Guatemala, Venezuela, and Haiti, etc.

You reap what you sow. When will we learn?

[No2W2004]

17. You can almost see happening it in South America.

How many millions of people dispise the US?

[DontBlameMe]

19. No suprise.

I took a class in high school called "Current World Affairs", back in 1987.

Everybody else in the class worried themselves sick over quizzes and tests, and always asked me how I did so well. "God, you must study all the time!" was the usual comment. "NO!!! I watch the fucking news every night! This isn't particle physics!"

I think most people in this country simply believe the US is the best, who cares about the rest of the world.

No, wait there was one other student who did exceptionally well. He was an exchange student from Denmark. Go figure.