NBA Basketball

[Champ]

I have something I want to get off my chest. For the last 4 years I kept hearing how the Western Conference Finals were the actual NBA Finals. You know what? This year the Eastern Conference Finals were the NBA Finals. In my opinon, the Indiana Pacers (my favorite team) gave Detroit a bigger chalenge then the LA Lakers (which had 4 future hall of famers on their roster and one of the best NBA coaches of all time)
Here is my proof

Detroit vs Indiana
Scores
Game 1: W (For Indiana)78-74
Game 2: L 67-72
Game 3: L 78-85
Game 4: W 83-68
Game 5: L 65-83
Game 6: L 65-69

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teamsched?team=ind(For game stats)

Detroit vs LA
Game 1: W (for Detroit)87-75
Game 2: L 91-99 (OT)
Game 3: W 88-68
Game 4: W 88-80
Game 5: W 100-87

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teamsched?team=det

In related news Insiders say that the Pacers are pursuing T-Mac :bounce: Mainly because he wants to leave Orlando

The NBA Finals ratings average is highest in three years http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1823433

And the Lakers are dismantled http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7432770

:hi: Sorry I had to get all that off my chest

On edit: I'm not discounting the fact the Detroit Pistons are one bad ass team. Based on the style of play they are my favorite team but I got to remain loyal to the Pacers.

[lazarus]

1. One thing to consider, though

After the top two teams in the east, you have to admit there's a big dropoff.

I'd say any of the 8 playoff teams in the West could fairly easily beat the 6 teams that didn't make the Eastern Finals.

This is reminiscent of the Jordan era. Yeah, the East won 6 out of 8 years. But it was Jordan's Bulls who won all 6. The two years he was out of the Finals, the West won.

Oh, also, the NBA, as all sports, has a strong rock-paper-scissors element. For instance, Detroit was the worst possible matchup for the Lakers. But Detroit and Minnesota or Detroit and San Antonio would have been much more competitive series, I think.

That aside, kudos to the Pistons, who I think of as being the Spurs of the East. :D

[Champ]

2. I know what your saying

The East is nothing without Indiana/Detroit/New Jersey.

[lazarus]

3. and New Jersey

left Kerry Kittles unprotected in the expansion draft. Still trying to figure that one out.

Hopefully Cleveland will continue to progress. And the realignment this summer is sure to shake things up.

[Champ]

5. Definately

Alot of turn of events went down lately which is why there is so much news going on. I'm exciting for next season, I have no idea what's going to happen. Like what team Shaq or Kobe will play for next season as well as Malone and the possibility of Fisher and Payton leaving.

[lazarus]

12. yup

I don't know but what the Spurs shouldn't consider picking up Fisher, if his price is right.

The most intriguing speculation I'm hearing about is the addition to the Spurs of Ray Allen.

You do know that the expansion draft is Tuesday, right?

[Champ]

14. Hmm that would be interesting

I haven't heard about Spurs and Allen talks.

Yeah I know the expansion draft is Tuesday, who do you think will be drafted?

[lazarus]

17. Man, I have no idea

The problem is, you have several layers to consider:

First, salary cap. The Bobcats have 66% (or thereabouts) of the salary cap available to them. So just picking the best players available isn't going to do it.

Second is free agency. Any restricted free agent they pick is automatically changed to an unrestricted free agent.

Third is trades. Apparently, they can draft 29 players, 1 from each team. They can then deal these players to other teams without nearly as much consideration for salary cap considerations. They can also pick people in return for inducements from other teams, such as cash and draft picks.

It's all very confusing. Bernie Bickerstaff, the GM, has been working on this for over a year.

I can guarantee we'll see some surprises, though. For instance, I don't see them picking Malik Rose and signing him, because his contract is fairly big. But if another team wants Rose, they could potentially pick him up fairly cheap by offering various inducements to Charlotte.

My head's spinning. Then we have the real draft on Thursday. Wheeee!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. Heard some gossip about possible Kobe/Iverson trade.

AI is not Kobe but this might not be a bad deal for either team. Not that I want anything to happen that might prop the Lakers up, LOL.

I don't follow sports websites or hoops sites much so I have no idea if that gossip has any credence.

[Champ]

16. I actually think both would fit well in the cities

Kobe being from Philadelphia and everything and I can imagine him as a 76er. Also A.I. with the Lakers could be interesting. lol I don't know why but the business side of sports intrigues me as well.

[lazarus]

18. problem is

Payton's talking about executing his player option and staying in LA for 4 or 5 million. Payton and AI on the same team?

[Champ]

20. I don't know man

But there is a possibility that Gary and Fisher will opt out of their deals like Kobe and The Mailman. I'm just waiting to see what happens, but I can imagine The Answer in a Lakers Jersey.

[THUNDER HANDS]

33. Kittles was left off to free up salary

To sign Kenyon Martin to something close to the max salary.

And I take issue with the original poster who said Indiana-Detroit was the real NBA finals.

New Jersey - Detriot was the real finals.


If Kidd was healthy we would have beaten Detroit. Please tell me there's an honest Pistons fan in the house who will admit to this.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. The "top 2 teams" thing is big though. Remember when it seemed

like the AFC would never win another Super Bowl? There was a period before the AFC finally broke through again where they had, IMO, been the stronger conference for a little while, but the top NFC representative of SF or Dallas was always a cut better although the AFC had the better overall group of teams and better record against the NFC.

[Champ]

6. I know what your saying

And you know what team broke that streak of NFC wins? The Denver Broncos!!! :D :D :toast: :toast:

I agree, top to bottom the Western Conference is the best conference. Thing is Indiana had the best record in the league and a very good record against Western Conference teams and also Detroit had all the momentum after the 'Sheed trade, even Reggie said so. So based on that I gotta say the two best teams played in the Eastern Conference Finals.

[lazarus]

10. Indiana's record vs the West

is a bit misleading, however. Against the top 4 teams in the West (San Antonio, LA, Minnesota, and Sacramento), they had a record of 3 - 5.

I think Detroit would have had the best record had Rasheed started the season there. The East is so weak, a very good team is likely to rack up an incredible record. Losing a playoff team and adding an expansion team isn't going to help, either.

And the new divisions are going to skew the records even worse. For instance, Miami is going to be in a division with: Atlanta (28-54), Washington (25-57), Orlando (21-61), and an expansion Charlotte franchise. Tell me their record isn't going to jump. 3 of those teams had worse records than any team in the West (Atlanta was tied with the Clippers, the worst of the West).

In the meantime, the Texas road trip from Hell, San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston, have added Memphis and New Orleans to the Division. That'll be interesting, if nothing else.

LA and Sacramento are still in the same division, hilariously.

[Champ]

13. Good points

I know they went 1-1 with LA and San Antonio, I'm not sure about the other two but they did well against good Western teams like Dallas, Memphis, Denver, and Houston. LA is pretty much dismantled for now, the offseason is ahead and alot can happen for them as well as many teams. I'm just waiting to see what happens.

[lazarus]

19. 6-2

They went 6-2 against the lower bracket playoff teams from the West. Not shabby.

Indiana's a fine team. It's a shame their prime year to win was ruined by Isaiah Thomas. After what that man did to the CBA, Toronto, and then Indiana, I'm stunned he got a job with NY. I wouldn't let him near a playground team, myself.

This guy burned so many bridges in his career, he wasn't even asked to be on the Dream Team.

[PoliticsSportsMusic]

7. Never considered Pacers better than Lakers....

but then again before the Finals I didn't think the Pistons would win...thought they would take it to 6 or 7 games but win....nahhh. So,now I can agree with you on that point...Pacers could have very well beaten the Lakers,but we will never know for sure. As far as McGrady going to the Pacers may sound good on the surface but the guy is not a team player...rebs,assists aren't in his vocabulary...and defensively I'm not certain but I would guess he is weak. I guess you could argue his points are all they want him for but the Pacers play great team basketball,not just a bunch of individuals...McGrady is used to being THE individual and not used to being part of a true team of brothers. I could be all wet,he might fit in perfectly and work hard to become a great team play and they all live happily ever after.
Surprised to see that this years finals had the highest ratings in the last three years...glad to see that!!
I agree with you 100% on the Pistons...WOW what a team!!! You got to hand Larry Brown a lot of credit...he is the best coach in the NBA in my opinion.
Anytime you wanna talk sports I'm more than ready!!! Do you like Football and Baseball too?

[Champ]

8. Definately!

Larry Brown a former Pacers coach
I liked every player on that Pistons team
Ben Wallace(love his style of play)
Ric Hamilton (loved him from his days at Uconn)
Chauncey Billups (Always been a favorite point gaurd of mine)
Rasheed Wallace (Love the attitude but can over the top at times)
Top to bottom I like the team, I never been a fan of the Pistons but this year it has been hard to dislike them lol

That is true about McGrady, if he was a team player he would've stayed in Toronto with his cousin. If they would've stayed together that would've been one bad ass team imo.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. What was happening to the NBA was the "Yankeefication" of the Lakers.

Not just where they were by far the most dominant team (in a desirable city/market no less), but where there dominance was such that top veteran players from other teams would be willing to take a pay CUT in order play for the Lakers and get a ring.

(Although to be fair the Yankees don't have this problem because of no salary cap, they just pay everyone more money anyway)

Even as great and stacked as the Magic Johnson Laker teams were (and these were my favorite basketball teams EVER, I began to really love basketball because of Magic), they had a major rival, the Smeltics, who were also great and actually WON titles too.

I never really cared for the Shaq-fu version of the Lakers. The basketball is just much less beautiful than the Magic/Worthy/Kareem/Cooper/Scott version. And they have not had the worthy adversary to measure their greatness against.

Rambling, but I think the breakup of the Lakers and the presumed end of this "Yankeefication" process is a welcome development.

[Champ]

11. Definately

As of right now the league is open, there are about 4 or 5 teams possibly more that have a chance of taking over the league for quite some time. That has been the way the NBA has always been we went from (Lakers/Celtics) 80's (Bulls) 90's (Lakers late 90's early 00's) so I just wonder... whose next?

[lazarus]

21. Good free agents available this year

I bolded the three players the Spurs are likely going to look at.

Marcus Camby
Stephen Jackson
Bob Sura
Mark Blount
Jamal Crawford
Marquis Daniels
Steve Nash
Antoine Walker
Mehemet Okur
Rasheed Wallace
Erick Dampier
Nick Van Exel
Quentin Richardson
Kobe Bryant
Derek Fisher
Stromile Swift
Trenton Hassel
Troy Hudson
Sprewell
Kenyon Martin
Darius Miles
Vlade Divac
Anthony Peeler
Brent Barry
Carlos Arroyo
Gordan Giricek
Etan Thomas

[Champ]

22. Alot of good prospects

Hey lazarus, you are very knowledgable about the sport. It's good to find someone who shares some of the passions you have.

My eyes are looking at
Marcus Camby
Jamal Crawford (Potential plus loved him from his playing days at Michigan - still have a college jersey of his)
Steve Nash
Antoine Walker
Rasheed Wallace
Nick Van Exel
Queintin Richardson
Kobe
Derek Fisher
Sprewell
Kenyon Martin
Daius Miles
Vlade Divac (He is a good solid player)
Brent Berry

The others are good but the ones mentioned above are the ones that are catching my eye.

[lazarus]

23. Vlade

would have a few more years in him if he'd quit smoking. Seriously, he smokes 2 packs a day, or something thereabouts.

What does Indiana need, really? They need to replace Reggie this year or next, so you're looking at a good 2 guard with outside shooting. That's Brent Barry.

In the right system, I think NVE would be a dream. He needs to come off the bench, though, as he was doing in Dallas.

Marcus Camby would be great. He's really come into his own in Denver, though, so I doubt he's leaving.

It's a great list, though. This is going to be an interesting summer.

I've been a basketball fan forever. I went to a small high school in southern Alabama (right down the road from where Robert Horry and the Persons, Chuck and Wesley, went to school). We had no other sport teams but basketball, so that was that. I've been a Spurs fan since the glory days of George Gervin and Larry Kenon. I had the nickname Iceman before Top Gun made it unacceptable. :D

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. Do you have the old classic "Iceman" poster of Gervin sitting on his

icy throne?

[lazarus]

26. sore subject

I did, hanging in my bedroom for years and years. And it's disappeared.

I have hopes that it's in the attic somewhere.

I also had one of the team back when they were known as the "Bruise Brothers" all dressed up in Blues Brothers outfits.

[Champ]

25. I didn't know that about him

I'd actually be happy to see Brent Barry as the Pacers Shooting Guard, I always liked him. It's sad to me atleast that Reggie never got a ring though, talk about someone who has overcame some obstacles in his life.

Nick Van Exel has been a favorite player of mine, I think he would fit well with San Antonio.

[lazarus]

27. Reggie is one who should have had a ring

I'd have been pissed had Payton and Malone gotten rings while Reggie didn't. Reggie's one of the good guys. He and Barkley are on the list of great players who should have had a ring, along with Elgin Baylor and George Gervin. I'm sure there are plenty of others...

[Tummler]

29. NICK VAN EXEL IS NOT A FREE AGENT

Sorry for the shouting, but it's frustrating to see that particular bit of misinformation continue to be promulgated. There are several folks at SpursCentral who persist in believing the Van Exel free-agency fantasy, in spite of the fact that Van Exel has a player option for 2004-05 that would pay him $11.8M. Does anyone really think he's going to walk away from that kind of money ... to take a "mere" couple million from the Spurs or the $5M mid-level exception (at most) from another team?

More on NVE:
http://pub97.ezboard.com/fspursdominionfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1390.topic

Antoine Walker also has a year left on his contract.

Spurs Dominion index of threads on free agents, potential draftees, and other topics:
http://p068.ezboard.com/fspursdominionfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1007.topic

[lazarus]

31. Thanks, Cleve

This is Cleve, right?

Thanks for clearing that up. Sigh.

What about Brent Barry, then? I'm liking him. We need a Steve Kerr/John Paxson type.

And SJax coming back would be sweet!

[Tummler]

36. Yes, this is Cleve v2.0

:hi:

Brent Barry and SJax are unrestricted free agents and definite possibilities!

[CrownPrinceBandar]

30. Steve Nash better not abandon the Mavs...........

they've got a good squad. Nash leaving would tear a good chunk of the soul out of that team. That also goes for Antoine Walker.

Vlade leaving the Kings would be a disaster, as well. He's got a few more good years left in him ( the Chief played until 42, right?).

[fujiyama]

28. You're right

The eastern conference games were hard fought and very defensive. A lot of people don't like defensive basketball games (considered "dirty"), but I love them! Then again, that may be because I'm used to watching hockey games.

The Pacers and the Nets both gave the Pistons hell (the Nets took it all the way to game 7 and the Pacers almost did). The Lakers meanwhile, would have been swept, were it not for that miracle three pointer by Kobe. The Pistons really dominated every game that too.

[lazarus]

32. something frustrating

is the way the announcers suddenly decided that Detroit had shown the league you can win with defense and team ball.

It's like last year didn't happen. Remember the Spurs, with one of the best team defenses of all time?

Frustrating as hell. I even heard announcers talk about how Detroit had to be the "champion Lakers" to gain legitimacy. Sorry, the champs lost in the Western Finals, and that's complete disrespect.

[Champ]

34. Definately

You made all the points I wanted to make.

[UrbScotty]

35. Hehehehehe

"Lakers are gonna win in 5..."

Blah, blah, blah.

:evilgrin:

[Awsi Dooger]

37. In pro sports, gaps are never as large as they appear

The talent pool is so equal, unlike college where a blowout usually precedes another blowout if the teams meet again. In pro sports a lopsided result is usually nothing more than a perfect game by one team combined with a near forfeit by the other.

That's why bookies and Nevada sportsbooks drool over the NFL. Casual bettors invariably overreact to the previous week and expect a rerun, then are left shaking their heads and tearing up tickets when everything is flopped.

The NBA is somewhat different because a single dominant player or two can make a huge difference with only 5 players on the court. Defeating the more talented team 4 times in a series is an incredible obstacle. There would be many more NBA Finals upsets if it were a one shot affair like the Super Bowl. Remember, Philly defeated the Lakers in Los Angeles in game one a few years ago.

The Eastern Conference was never as adrift as general consensus. But I agree with the posters who emphasize the matchup advantage the Pistons enjoyed over LA. Indiana was not as long-armed or athletic or as deep, and not quite as defensively dominant or vicious on the boards. Plus, the Lakers had defeated the Pacers in the finals recently, a considerable confidence advantage they did not hold over Detroit.

[Champ]

38. Great post

As always

The talent pool is so equal, unlike college where a blowout usually precedes another blowout if the teams meet again. In pro sports a lopsided result is usually nothing more than a perfect game by one team combined with a near forfeit by the other.
I agree 100% Even though players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlin, etc were the greatest of all time. Unlike those days the NBA has a much larger talent pool now.

That's why bookies and Nevada sportsbooks drool over the NFL. Casual bettors invariably overreact to the previous week and expect a rerun, then are left shaking their heads and tearing up tickets when everything is flopped.
I agree with this statement, I know how unpredictable the NFL is. Even though one team may be significantly better then the other team, they can still lose based on 1 or 2 key matchups. Like a physically dominating reciever vs an average size corner a very smart skilled QB against an average defense.

The NBA is somewhat different because a single dominant player or two can make a huge difference with only 5 players on the court. Defeating the more talented team 4 times in a series is an incredible obstacle. There would be many more NBA Finals upsets if it were a one shot affair like the Super Bowl. Remember, Philly defeated the Lakers in Los Angeles in game one a few years ago.

Exactly, that is the thing about the NFL. Not all the time does the best team win based on the one shot thing. Does everyone really think the Carolina Panthers were the best team from the NFC? They were damn good but if they played 7 game series I don't think they could've made it past the Rams

The Eastern Conference was never as adrift as general consensus. But I agree with the posters who emphasize the matchup advantage the Pistons enjoyed over LA. Indiana was not as long-armed or athletic or as deep, and not quite as defensively dominant or vicious on the boards. Plus, the Lakers had defeated the Pacers in the finals recently, a considerable confidence advantage they did not hold over Detroit.
I'm not really sure about this because many experts stated that Indiana had the deepest team in the leauge. My point was after the 'Sheed trade Detroit was really the best team in the leauge. Indiana was the 2nd best based on having a very good record against the West and having the best overall record in the league. Also based on the game stats I posted above Indiana gave Detroit a tougher and better challenge then LA. But I appreciate you for posting, your posts always challenge my brain.

[Awsi Dooger]

39. That's probably true about Indiana's overall depth

I was mostly focused on inside, where it seemed like the gangly Pistons always had a trio waiting to snatch, or bat out, every critical rebound vs. LA. I'm not sure the Pacers could have managed that vs. Shaq.

Early I thought the Pacers were best in the East. I love their young, defensive minded coach. But once Detroit got Rasheed and started holding opponents below 70 it screamed as the best Eastern team post-Jordan. I particularly remember one game at Denver, with the Nuggets a small favorite but I watched the Pistons destroy them by about 30, and left convinced they would be in the Finals.

Still, Indiana clubbed Detroit on the road in game 4. At that point it was best of three, Pacers with home edge, and I was very surprised Indiana lost two in a row.