Charging for water at fast food restaurants.

[chaska]

Went to Burger King today, my locally-owned burger joint was packed ... so was BK come to think of it. Went in a little POed, I guess. Anyway, I get to the register and place my order. I just happened to look down at the register as $.25 rang up. I asked "is that $.25 for the water?" The girl said yes, so I said "forget the water". Then, in the split second it took me to realize that I would either have to choke down a bad burger without benefit of libation, or go suck the bathroom faucet, I got pissed. I said, "in fact, forget the whole thing," and I stormed out.

I've had it with this shit. I can see paying for it if it's the only thing I'm ordering. But my order would have been about $3.50 for a burger and small fry. I'm really not cheap. It's the principle of the thing. Corporations are scum.

Am I the only one pissed off about this? Why is there not organizing going on over this? Sure, it's a fringe thing. That never stopped anyone.

Who else does this? Even the evil Mcdonalds doesn't charge for water.

Oh I just remembered an experience at Subway - a place where I will never eat again. I heard they're a right wing co. anyway. If you ask for water they give you bottled at a buck plus. I made them take it off the bill and asked for a cup. They said they had to charge the full drink price for a cup(!!!). Company policy. Fuck 'em. And I just noticed - I normally don't drink soft drinks - that a small Coke is $1.29 (!!!). It's water and sugar, for god's sake!

Ah, I feel better. I could still use a massage, though.

[NYC]

1. If they charged for the actual cost of the cup, it would seem

acceptable. There is no way a fast food chain pays 25 cents for a cup, so they were overcharging you.

I think refusing to pay for it was the correct thing to do.

Edit: I realize restaurants charge more for food, but they serve a higher quality food.

[Journeyman]

8. Why is it only acceptable. . .

if they don't make a profit on the transaction? The restaurant (if you can call a Burger King a restaurant) is in the business of selling food and drink. To give a customer a cup for water, they have the cost of the cup, the cost of the ice (to create it, sustain it, and deliver it), and the cost of the piping and faucets for the water. To cap it, they have their facility overhead and the wages of the cashier. You may feel 25 cents is exhorbitant (and I agree -- I think most fast food is way overpriced), but to expect them to give the cup at cost is unrealistic.

[NYC]

11. Restaurants give water for free.

I can see no reason to charge for water. Restaurants profit on the food they sell. Water should be given without charge.

I have never had a restaurant charge for water. Fast food chains profit on the food they sell the same as restaurants do. They can serve the water for free.

[Maple]

14. Not any more

Times change.

Just because it's 'always been that way' doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

[NYC]

15. New York restaurants still don't charge for water.

I have yet to be charged.

[Maple]

18. They

will.

Probably do now actually...it's just in with the rest of your bill and not separately itemized.

[Journeyman]

23. But you didn't answer the question. . .

Why would it only be acceptable if they charged the actual cost of the cup? Why shouldn't they make a profit on their service -- in this case, providing you with a cup?

Moving this discussion to another, more useful plane, do a little research on the actual cost of water -- not the artificial, government -supported price you may pay, but the full cost of the water -- the dams, the aqueducts, the processing and disinfection, and come to realize how much more those costs are going to grow in the coming decades, and you'll see what a pipedream all beliefs in free water is.

[Not a robought]

27. Bringing this back to the original thread topic

how about it would be acceptable to give the water away because it means they wouldn't have been so stupid as to lose the bigger sale of $3.50.

[private_ryan]

29. restaurants that give it away charge a LOT more than $5 for a meal

why does a rest charge you a cake cutting fee or a corkage fee if you bring a bottle of wine with you (if they have a liquor license)? Loss of sale mainly because you aren't buying their cake or bottle of wine. By asking for free water you aren't buying their $1.19 soda and their profit margins are really thin.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. any restaraunt that won't give free tapwater doesn't get my business

We have high quality tap water in most of the US, and restaraunts should give it away for free, if not, they won't get my business.

[Maple]

2. You want clean water?

Water treatment plants, filtration systems and waterpipes aren't free.

We waste an enormous amount of water, and yet entire areas have very little. Water is the gold of the 21st century.

Get used to it.

[SaveABug]

3. Not to defend them but my thoughts

I always get water with my fast food meals (thank god I don't go there often), and can kind of understand a small fee. The cup, the refrigeration, the time cost involved in the employee getting it. It's a service.

[Systematic Chaos]

4. You know those 99 cent value menus...

...and 3 foot-longs for $11.00 deals that Subway and fast food all have? Guess how they make a profit? It's by charging outlandish prices for drinks and stuff.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying you were wrong in how you felt. I would have been pissed too. I'm not saying charging for a cup of water is a good thing to do. I'm only saying that with all the competition between these places it's not easy for the establishments to make money. The franchisees get screwed while the corporations make sure they make the big bucks.

Also, a lot of places inventory their cups. I know 7-11's do. They're charging for the actual cup, not what goes in it.

[Kellanved]

5. The US are getting more European

Gas prices are gaining fast; and no free water/free refills in restaurants. :shrug:

[carpetbagger]

25. And dammit, look what happened in Europe when it got hot.

They died by the bucketful because, among other reasons, they aren't used to tanking up like those of us in the south do.

No free water, no R. Sammel in your damn restaurant.

[Kellanved]

31. ???

The service in Restaurants has hardly anything to do with this tragedy. Old people died because of insufficent care and unexpected weather conditions.

European restaurants make their profits with the drinks - the meal pays the personnel (including the waiters) and the ingredients, the drinks make the profits. And it is possible to get free water in addition to coffee, wine ... in "friendly" restaurants.
The upside is: you can stay as long as you want and talk after finishing.

BTW you're paying for the water one way or another - nothing is for free.

[amazona]

6. yes, i agree it's wrong

Many years ago I was caught outside in the heat for some reason (can't remember if my car broke down or it might have been the bus) and I asked for a cup of water in a Popeyes. They wanted to charge me. Yes. They wanted to charge a woman offering suffering from heat distress for water. This is probably actionable if I had collapsed without the water! Some kind soul popped up with a quarter and I was able to drink but I never stepped foot in a Popeyes again.

Water needs to be available in public buildings. It can be an emergency when a person needs water. It is nice to have bottled water to sell as a luxury to those who are particular about what they drink but when someone is in heat distress, they are not concerned about a chemical in the water killing them in 40 years, they are concerned about having a heat stroke and dying on the spot.

I truly wonder about people sometimes.

Good for you for your protest at Burger King. I hope lots of people emulate you.

[Caution]

7. not a defense but the reason is

They actually use the cups as an inventory control method. 0.25 is a bit much (they pay about 3 cents per cup i believe). They are attempting to make up for lost revenue in soda sale by charging a large margin on the cup (restaurants make a large portion of revenue on the drinks). But that is why, anyways.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

10. So, if they make so much on soda... and I know they do...

why would they care about the few people who want to drink water?

It is, as usual, an idiotic dictum from some bean-counting asshole somewhere in the corporate cesspool.

[ProudGerman]

36. If they are trying to recover a "lost sale" on soda

Then maybe they should repeal the unlimited free refills for eat in customers. Instead of charging a quarter for something that costs them next to nothing, they can stop offering stuff that costs them money for free.

[luckyluke]

9. Real gouging: ravers and famine hit people

I don't have a problem with restaurants charging for water. It isn't free in the first place. You can, if you choose not to buy it, go to a different restaurant or drink from the tap in the bathroom. In the worst case, you won't die of thirst.

I have a big problem with raves where water is overpriced. Ravers, particularly those under the effects of drugs, have died from dehydration in significant numbers. A high teen is unlikely to either pay large sums for water or consider inconvenient alternatives. Free plentiful water should be required at raves by law; that will do more to reduce Ecstasy-related deaths than anything else.

In rural India, water sources are often under the control of a few individuals per village. Come famine, water becomes as expensive as gold; the rich pony up and drink, the poor die, and the hoarders fill their pockets.

-ll

[Porkrind_Power]

16. drink from the tap in the bathroom

coming soon: coin operated taps
just like the good old days when you had to give up a dime to use the toilet

[private_ryan]

30. for 25 cents?

n/t

[BlueJazz]

12. Chaska, I think you did the right thing

If a business is so cheap that they can't give away water then screw them.

Also, if your business is so "tight" that giving away a 2 cent cup will hurt your bottom line then you better find another business.

I refuse to sink that low in the name of "Inventory Control"
(OH MY GOD!!! We're 12 cups short!! What are we gonna' do?? Call the detectives ! Don't you realize that we have lost 24 cents today!!)

[chaska]

13. Fill this space.

It's not that big a deal. I've been a little stressed out lately. That's what that little non-event was about more than anything. Still, I don't like being nickel and dimed to death. Also, wages are not going up, but prices are, fast food especially. And the real pisser: the food and service just get worse every day.

I've decided. I've been thinking about this for years. I'm gonna do it. Paper cups are a polution source, and probably not a small one. I'm just going to get me a nice cup that I'll carry with me in the car for when I go to fast food places. Problem solved.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Good for you!

We need more people who refuse to buy into the pollution for convenience's sake, and start taking mugs to work fr tehir coffee instead of using styrofoam cups every damn time, and keep some mug or two in the car for holding water or coffee or soft drinks, etc.

Thanks for your concern for our environment!!

As people bitch about the cost of water, those same people should check their behavior and see how much their styrofoam and plastic and nylon and straw and electricity and gas usage is polluting our water system so much that the costs to keep the water clean are skyrocketing.

[tsipple]

17. Reason #687 Not to Dine at Franchises

Support your locally owned and operated restaurant. The food is better anyway.

[yella_dawg]

19. In the south, at least...

there is a tradition that drinking water is almost an inalienable right. I don't know, maybe it's the thing just around where I grew up, but charging for water used to be pretty much unthinkable. This was a pre-designer water thing, and I remember a lot of derision of bottled water for a while. Providing a cool drink is still a major part of courtesy though.

[Paragon]

20. Call 911

Fast food customer dials 9-1-1 over condiment charge
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=10211

"I spent almost $10 on food and I wanted some sauce," Brown says. "I was told I would have to pay extra for sauce. It's not a store policy. It's not in writing and I don't feel I should pay extra for any sauce unless it is store policy and they show it to me."

- You get what you pay for, chaska. You want excellent service, don't expect it from a minimum-wage slave at a Burger King.

(By the way, you were paying for the cup, not the water. Same goes for fountain drinks - the cost of pouring those are pretty negligible.)

[Dover]

21. I think water is well on the way to becoming valued differently

I remember how shocked I was the first time I went to Europe where I had to pay for bottled water and never was offered water free with a meal. Heck, I couldn't even find a table and chair to sit at for free without paying for something.
I was puzzled, and asked for "just tap water", and received a puzzled look in return.
It was only a few years later that bottled water was being sold in the U.S. And many water districts are wanting to change America's outlook on the value of water by charging their water utility customers the "real costs" of water. Wealthy individuals are buying up water rights and water properties like there's no tomorrow. Enron was buying up water rights before their demise, in anticipation of these changing laws and market condidtions surrounding water. In other words...no more free water in the very near future. How much is hype and how much is due to real shortages I suppose would depend on who you asked.
But I don't think it will be long before restaurants of all kinds will be offering water on the menu for a price, just like Europe.
And that 25 cents Burger King charged will look cheap. Right now I do think it is more related to the cost of the cup, etc. But soon it will be the water itself as the rising costs of water get passed on.

[Deja Q]

22. What a !&@^#%$ JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I used to work for Burger Slop (during poppy bush era) and they gave water for free. I saw (so did the management) some people abusing by putting the carbonated sugar slop into the glass instead of water, but (a) I'm not management nor would they consider promoting me and (b) THEY are management so oh well.

If that's why they're charging, I wouldn't go there either. Management should start eyeballing the customers as much as they eyeball the "slave" workers.

I'd love to give you a massage though! ;-)

[BiggJawn]

24. As a former Burger Flipper, I feel up to this challenge....

The grease pit tracks it's drink inventory by the number of cups they go through in a day. Employees could drink for free, but we had to re-use the same cup or get bitched out by the swing Mgr. who had to track the usage. (yeah, i know its not according to BoH rules, but this is fast food, fahgeddaboutit)

We DID, however, have small 4-ounce "courtesy cups" that we'd give out to people who'd ask for water or want a cup to drink the milk out of. Those weren't tracked.Come to think of it, we could go through as many C-C's as we liked for employee drinks...

But the greedy bastids prolly don't do the courtesy cup thing any more...

[chenGOD]

28. In South Korea...

all the restaurants give water for free. And you can drink as much as you want.

Burger King has started using plastic cups (like clear plastic kids cups) for soft drinks for people who eat in. Who woulda thunk it?

[Kamika]

32. matter of class

My familys restaurant will always give water free, i cant believe the bad taste of charging for water.

It has happened that someone would just come in and ask for a glass of water and then leave, ofcourse he can get that. And then he'll also remember the service he got and go back when he wants to eat too.

If a food joint has any kind of class and yes even burger king or mcdonalds should have an ounce they should give it for free.

[SaintLouisBlues]

34. Fast food joints are pissed when no drink is ordered

They make almost all their profit on fountain drinks.

When I stuck with fast food while highway traveling I make it a point to never buy their overpriced
drinks. Bring bottled water or hit the coke machine at the gas station next door.

I bet they still make way more on the $1.xx coke versus the $.25 water

[bleedingheart]

35. A friend told me that they do this in Europe

even in fancier restaurants...(perhaps a european DUer can chime in)

Personally I don't mind it as much... but I understand your frustration..

[Aristus]

38. In Europe, when you order water, they charge you for it, but they serve

you bottled mineral water. And in Europe, you just know that's gotta be some good stuff. They charge you for ketchup packets at McDonald's over there, too. But the way I see it, if you're in Europe, and you're eating at McDonald's, there's something seriously wrong with you.

[FlaGranny]

37. Burger Kings are individually owned stores,

they charge different prices from location to location. The ones in my area do not charge for water, but the individual owner can charge pretty much as he pleases I guess.