REAL men aren't Anti-Gay, and let me tell you why...

[devin79]

I am 24, so maybe I am biased in this regard, but quite frankly I know for a fact that no REAL man is anti-gay. It is true that most guys are anti-homosexual when it comes to guys (I don't care weather guys are gay or not, but since I am straight, I admit to not knowing any gay guys). However no REAL guy has a problem with lesbians. I was at my friends frat house on thursday watching the MTV music awards, when that naughty threesome occured between Madonna, Christina, and Britany. Were my friends and I upset, HELL NO! That is as close to hot girl girl action as you are going to get short of Cabo San Lucas during Spring Break. So when that wanna-be Irishman Bill O'Reily says he is against Homosexuals, remember REAL men like hot all girl action:9

[Le Taz Hot]

1. Um, . . .

REAL men are not 'phobes REGARDLESS of participant gender. Additionally, REAL men don't consider the sum-total of being gay as solely sexual activity.

However, you're only 24 so I'm going to give you a little slack for lack of life experience.

[Systematic Chaos]

2. Actually with many men there's a double standard

the size of Uranus (pun intended) when it comes to that.

They'll sit at home boxing the clown to girl-on-girl porn but as soon as the subject turns to gay men it's bash bash bash.

I could never totally figure that out. I mean, I can understand a straight man being more comfortable watching two girls going at it than two guys, but what is the purpose in hating and insulting anybody? :shrug:

[arwalden]

5. This is simple...

The disproportionate loathing of gay men can be traced to 'self-doubts about their own sexuality' or 'self-loathing and living a closeted life'.

Speaking from experience before I came out and accepted who I was, I was CONSTANTLY ridiculing and verbally bashing gays.

After all... who would EVER EVER GUESS that *I* had those feelings if I was so vocally AGAINST them? Right?

-- Allen

P.S. Go ahead, flame away. This is not the ONLY answer... but one answer that makes a HELL of a lot of sense.

P.P.S. THERE WAS A CLINICAL STUDY (and I'll be damned if I can find a link) where the brains, hearts, and penises of straight men were hooked up to electrodes to measure changes in them as they were shown nudes of men and women and of gay porn and straight porn.

The men whose interviews indicated that they were anti-gay, and the men who were self-identified as being anti-gay were the ones who were MOST SEXUALLY AROUSED by the male nudes and the gay porn.

Go figure.

[ForrestGump]

8. That study you cite - the findings wouldn't surprise me, but

isn't it possible that some of that arousal was the result of sheer novelty? The human brain does tend to like novelty - well, some brains, anyway - and perhaps it thought "cool!" at the sight of sexual activity different than it was accustomed to. I mean, especially if all that brain usually got was a three-minute in-and-out that left it about as dissatisfied as the upright ciizen's long-suffering wife.

On the other hand, it makes sense that the old thou-protesteth-too-much principle is responsible for some of the more vehement anti-gay tirades let loose out there. Hard to say who's scarier - gay or bisexual men in angry denial or the religious and other zealots who have no agenda beyond truly believing that homosexuality is a sin punishable by a lifetime (afterlifetime, I suppose) spent in a fiery place that otherwise bears a stunning resemblance to Indianapolis, IN.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. I think you've got it, Arwalden

Last night P.O.V. showed a program called "Family Fundamentals," about gay people whose parents are anti-gay crusaders.

What was interesting was the segment about the Log Cabin Republican type who, before coming out, had spent twenty years as the protege ("like a son") of a notoriously anti-gay politician.

It seemed very clear to me that the politician in question was suffering from a severe case of self-loathing.

[nuxvomica]

11. I was so intrigued I did a search

Here's a bulletin board reference to that study:
http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/WorldNews/50727/1/collapsed/5/o/1
It references the APA site but that was running too slow for me to dig deeper.
I was curious because it supports my thesis that a lot of what we irrationally hate in others is what we know deep down to be true about ourselves.

[Rhiannon12866]

31. This is a very interesting study that proves the empirical theory

that everyone else here is debating. Thanks for posting it! It should be required reading for the homophobes of the world.:-)

[Cheswick2.0]

22. but it has nothing to do with lesbians

the "girl on girl" thing is about imagining themselves joining in. What men have a problem with is women who would not welcome them to the scene.

[Wcross]

3. 40 y/o straight guy

I have always looked at it like this. Who cares? I don't care who another man would like to have sex with. Is it my business? No. If a man is gay, how would that have any effect on my life one way or another? The thing I have really noticed is the true "homophobe" type guy who has a reaction to gay people is at odds with his own sexuality. Deep down inside they may have feelings towards other men and have a violent reaction to cover it up.

By the way Devin79, you do know gay men, you just don't know they are gay.

[ps1074]

6. good point

Chris Cooper in "American Beauty" is a fine example of the type of men you're talking about.

[Booberdawg]

4. Yeah - seems you forgot gay men in that scenario

EVERYBODY knows that heterosexual men love to see two heterosexual women kissing or getting it on. That's not news.

That scene was designed for hetero men to get a woody. Apparently it worked for you too.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Being a 52 year old lesbian

trapped in a male body, I frankly don't care who or what you fuck as long as no one gets hurt. Having grown up in San Francisco, I really like gay guys. They cut down on the competition.

[ForrestGump]

10. Well, this is an unexpected twist....

I'm also a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Does this mean that we should get together? :D

[OffWithTheirHeads]

13. If you are the guy in the black dress

I'm game

[ForrestGump]

17. How'd you know?

I'm the long cool dude in a black dress...

Does it make my behind look too big?

[Booberdawg]

20. ForrestGump I still love you!!

Yer such a tease!!!:D

[ForrestGump]

23. I love you, too!

Well, I tried to, but you slapped my face. :P

:hi:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

21. are those hand cuffs your holding?

This could be interesting. What are you doing next Sat night?

And no, your ass looks just fine to me.

[ForrestGump]

25. Dear Forum....

I never thought that I'd be writing a letter like this. I'm a student at a large, Midwestern university......

:D

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Geezus... where to begin with this post....

I am 24, so maybe I am biased in this regard

Age is a factor in homophobia now??

but quite frankly I know for a fact that no REAL man is anti-gay. It is true that most guys are anti-homosexual when it comes to guys

So you aren't anti-gay, you're just anti-homosexual? uhhhhh, ok.

(I don't care weather guys are gay or not, but since I am straight, I admit to not knowing any gay guys).

Yeah, I remember the days when I didn't think I knew anyone who was gay. As it turns out, they were there all along.....

However no REAL guy has a problem with lesbians. I was at my friends frat house on thursday watching the MTV music awards, when that naughty threesome occured between Madonna, Christina, and Britany. Were my friends and I upset, HELL NO!

They aren't lesbians. they're "promosexuals". They're only doing that so you'll keep watching a useless awards show on a network that has long outlived its usefulness to humanity.

That is as close to hot girl girl action as you are going to get short of Cabo San Lucas during Spring Break.

Ah, now I understand...... your education in lesbianism came entirely from "Girls Gone Wild" videos.

So when that wanna-be Irishman Bill O'Reily says he is against Homosexuals, remember REAL men like hot all girl action

While I'm hardly O' Reichly's biggest fan, I don't believe he's ever said anything of the kind. In fact, I remember him telling Rosie O'Donnell that he had no problem with gay couples adopting children, and as a right wing Catholic, he has the standard objection to gay marriage in the church, but I believe he actually said something in favor of civil unions. I could be wrong about the last one, as I try not to watch his show that often. But by FAUX standards, he's almost "liberal" on gay issues.

[arwalden]

14. Study: Gay panic is real

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?id=3036&sd=02/09/02-02/11/02

When heterosexual males are made to feel insecure about their masculinity, some may respond by increasing their hostility toward gay men, new research suggests. The recent findings may point to the psychological roots of homophobia and gay bashing, explains researcher Richard H. Gramzow of Northeastern University in Boston. "Men with a threatened male ego may be typically more hostile toward gay men," he said, "and that could eventually translate into more aggressive behaviors."

<SNIP>

Seeking to determine the factors that drive prejudice, Gramzow had 60 male and female college undergraduates complete questionnaires measuring their individual sense of masculinity and/or femininity. The questionnaire included a list of personality traits such as "assertive," "nurturing," and "power-oriented." Students were asked "whether they saw that trait as being characteristic of themselves," Gramzow noted. At the same time, the study participants were also asked their views regarding gay men and lesbians. Analyzing the results, the Boston researcher found that among men, "the higher the endorsement of masculine personality traits for the self, the higher the negativity toward gay men" and, to a lesser extent, lesbians. (Emphasis is mine.) In contrast, there was only a mild correlation between a woman's identification with her gender and her attitudes toward gay men or lesbians.

Armed with these findings, Gramzow then tested what might happen when men felt that their sense of masculinity was under threat. In a second study he passed out bogus questionnaires aimed at generating fictional "personality profiles." As in the first experiment, participants were asked their views on lesbians and gays. In a completely random fashion, Gramzow told half the students that their personality profiles had tested high on "masculine" traits, while the other half were told they scored higher in "feminine" traits. The result? "Male respondents who received feminine personality feedback subsequently reported extremely negative attitudes toward gay men," Gramzow reports, although their attitudes toward lesbians remained unchanged. Women who had received masculine personality feedback showed no increase in hostility toward either lesbians or gay men, he noted. The bottom line, according to Gramzow, is that "heterosexual males appear to express antipathy toward gay men as a way to express their masculinity."

[arwalden]

16. What makes a bully?

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/841/841_cvr_bully.asp

You can’t grow up without encountering a bully. And whether that bully is an older sibling, a menacing classmate, or a sand-kicking beach bum, it’s not a stretch to suggest that our culture is built, in part, on a culture of bullying. It’s in the school yard, on the playing field, and in the workplace.

But for many of the nation’s youth, this rite of passage has become a dead end. Name-calling has escalated to school shootings, and button pushing has led to suicides—leaving many people across the country to ask, “Where have we gone wrong?”

Yet despite all the soul-searching, few news reports have made a direct connection between bullying and sexual orientation—even though several of the last major school shootings were sparked, in part, by antigay taunts. And even fewer news reports have examined how society’s fixed notion of gender roles may determine more than just who is being bullied. It may also prompt gay, lesbian, or sexually confused youth who are determined to conform to those ideals to become bullies themselves.

A prime example of this may be director Larry Clark’s new movie, Bully, which tells the true story of Bobby Kent, a teenage boy in Florida who was pushed to strike out at others because of his tortured and confused sexual desires.

But Bully does little more than raise the question—its chief focus is the victims’ retribution. While gay and lesbian moviegoers may walk away with a clear connection between Kent’s repressed sexuality and his bullying, it’s not certain everyone else will. Nor does the film portray the violence that Kent and his friends reportedly directed against many gay men.

Yet Bully’s inconclusiveness is fitting, in a way, simply because pitifully little is known about the role self-directed homophobia plays in gay bashing and other types of bullying.


Continued At: http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/841/841_cvr_bully.asp

[soleft]

15. I find your thesis lacking credibility

I don't believe you're 24

[catpower2000]

18. I...I just...

What the fuck IS this mess? There's no way you are 24. Maybe 14. The best I can hope for you is that you'll grow out of it.

Cat

[tedoll78]

19. I've seen more woman-on-woman action..

in my college years than most men will in their entire lives.

That having been said, I'm a homo, and those women were my friends and their dates.

It drives my straight friends crazy.

[HEyHEY]

24. The real reason real men ..blah blah blah

Because a real man has the balls to accept something so harmless. And has the brain to be open to things and accept others. It takes balls to not have fear.

[Plaid Adder]

26. REAL lesbians don't put on 2-girl shows for straight men.

If you thought you were watching a lesbian kiss, you're as dumb as MTV thinks your demographic is. A lesbian kiss is what happens when one lesbian kisses another lesbian in order to turn herself and the other lesbian on. What you were watching is one straight woman kissing another straight woman in order to turn you on. It's nice for you that they succeeded. However, if you think that being turned on by two straight women making out means that you are not a homophobe, then you have much--MUCH--to learn, my son.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[HEyHEY]

27. ouch

You really nuked him

[northzax]

28. actually

I can tell you that, on occasion, people do put on shows for others, straight, gay, bi, whatever, somepeople like putting on shows. obviously this was just a couple of people kissing with no real meaning behind it. but to say that a group of people would, as a rule, never put on a show for someone else is simply exagerrating, you know?

[HEyHEY]

29. You're right

When we were wasted last night, my buddy and his girlfriend were considering putting on a show for me.


(Okay that was the dumbest post I have ever done)

[Deja Q]

30. you'd allow lesbian marriages only if you could watch the honeymoon...???

If most guys are anti-homosexual, then how come REAL men are not anti-gay? Unfortunately, gay men just happen to BE homosexual. :eyes:

As for heterosexual men loving to watch two women kiss... :eyes: If it's women doing it to each other, that's beautiful. If it's two men, then they're sick and evil and perverse and must be exterminated.

What if a guy was against lesbians? What's your say on that, eh? Would such a guy NOT be a real man?

I could care less if two women do it, unless they're frauds/not genuine/doing it for entertainment value. I wasn't going to mention the Madonna/Britney thing because I made ONE post on it and everybody decided I had been constantly harping on the issue for thousands of years. :eyes: But I now will. Those two camera whores are anything BUT genuine. They are entertainers and they were entertaining, nothing more.

Also, how can you have the audacity to think of what Bill O'Really likes?! Nobody knows what Bill thinks. Bill wouldn't know either, he's too busy reading scripts and being an automaton on republican issues! He cannot afford to think. Therefore, he does NOT think!

Okay, I'm happy for you. You hate gay men but love lesbians. I'm sure you'd readily allow lesbian marriages, though on the sole provision you get free and uninhibited window-seat access to their bedrooms so you can watch. :eyes:

Screw your double-standards. That's another reason why I hate your society. (Add this to the confusion; just because I live in your society doesn't mean I consciously am a part of it.) (Clarification: "your" as in society's, not necessarily the ones you personally choose to follow, but as you choose to follow them, then I guess you're part of the conscious problem. I also put this clarification after the statement - adds more impact, don't yoyu think?)