De-criminalize pot, prostitution, lower drinking age. Where do you stand?

[private_ryan]

personally I agree on all counts. Pot I assume everyone agrees so I'll leave it alone.
If you can vote and /or die in a war you should be able to drink a beer legally.

Prostitution: It's a victim-less crime, ADULT women for one reason or another CHOOSE to have sex for money with guys they don't know. Right or wrong it's not my or your business. It has happened for 5000 years, it's happening right now and will probably always happen. Instead of going to some sleazy motel or a truck they can set up shop in relatively safe places and all the STD testing can be enforced to make it even safer.

fire away but note that my ingore list is on. it's just 2-3 people though.

[Wcross]

1. Yes,Yes, and yes

What a person does to themselves is nobody's business. Lower the drinking age to 18 again. (I don't want to lower it further- nothing worse than a drunk preteen!)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. You probably can't read this anyway

But I don't agree with lowering the drinking age. If you want to make it legal for people who actually enlist to have a beer now and then based on your argument, then fine. States that had lower drinking ages eventually reverted back..it doesn't work.

Pot...fine..decriminalize it but legalizing it will only corporatize it so I don't know if I would go that far.

I'm all for two consenting adults doing what they wish with their body and their money..as long is the consent is ACTUAL and not a trap.

[mike_c]

16. the prostitution issue is tricky...

...because many women are coerced into prostitution to some degree or another (and more so in some cultures than in others). However-- and I'm not even sure how much I agree with my own argument here-- one could argue that prostitution is really nothing more than just another manifestation of wage slavery in general. How many people genuinely LIKE what they do for a living, or stated another way, how many people would reply that, given a real choice, they would choose to make a living doing what they currently do? I would, but that wasn't true for much of my working life, and I suspect it isn't true for most people. Most working people have only three real commodities to offer in the marketplace: their time, their bodies, and their experience/knowledge. The balance of demand for these varies, but does spending years plugging widget X into slot Y really differ from having sex with strangers? Is the real moral issue not the sex, but the economic exploitation that underlies both?

Anyway, not to hijack this thread, so I'll answer that I support legalization of marijuana, don't support lowering the drinking age (I've seen too many lives wrecked by alcohol), and while I support legalization of prostitution, I think the issue of whether women in the sex industry "choose" to be there needs to be examined in a much broader light than is usual.

[private_ryan]

23. they choose to be prostitues if it's regulated

if it's not, then the underground ones from Eastern Europe take their place and they're forced, nothing consentual about that.

[mike_c]

27. agreed, regulation is the key....

eom

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. That is assuming no one is forced into prostitution in America

that is not from eastern Europe...while I am no expert on the subject common sense would tell me that isn't correct or even possible.

[ButterflyBlood]

34. even if someone is forced into prostitution

I don't see how it benefits them to be locked up for it. just outlaw pimping.

[morningglory]

108. Definitely outlaw pimping...

In Atlanta the pimps work the endangered child shelters, run by state employees or county employees, and the employees allow the pimps to come into the cafeteria during lunch to pick the little 10-yr-old girls they want to turn out. Then they allow the pimps to walk out with them. This was in the news laast year in Atlanta. Big scandal. They started to punish some of the pimps.

[ButterflyBlood]

19. well I'm underage and I get drunk all the time

does that bother you?

(I've never driven a vehicle the same night I've had any alcohol for that matter)

[HEyHEY]

25. Ah

It's 19 here, 18 in other parts of the country, I think it's good age, you get the boozing and partying out of your system early. Then you get on with your life.

[ButterflyBlood]

28. that's why my mom said she didn't care about me drinking

also I bet there's almost no difference between the rates of 18-19 year olds drinking here and up there.

[maxanne]

32. unless you get addicted

in which case you screw up your whole life. I teach a DUI program, and usually have 1 underage person in every class. I see people under 21 on their second DUI.

[Kellanved]

36. I can't see that

We have 3-step system (Germany) (14 years one beer or one wine in company of the parents; 16 one beer or one wine; 18 full adult) and I don't see a problem. It is impossible to stop minors from buying a beer - making it legal doesn't change much.

Prostitution is legal, but "immoral" . Meaning: it has a weaker legal position than a "normal" trade, including healthcare, social security etc.
The Government wants to change that (making "Prostitute" a recognized job with all benefits. This would make women-trafficking far easier to control), but the conservative upper-house majority has stopped this for the moment.

Pot for private use is legal; selling it is not.

[Sephirstein]

47. That moral/immoral crap still exists?

Is the CDU still made up of ex-Nazis like it used to be?

[Kellanved]

56. worse than ever

Their chairwoman Merkel is moderate, but she has nothing to say.

The Governors Stoiber (Bavaria, the 2002 CDU candidate; well known for his nationalistic rhetoric; currently running for state re-election) and Koch (Hesse; almost certainly the 2006 candidate; well known for lying to parliaments, racist slurs, xenophobic campaigns, illegal party-financing, fiscal irresponsibility and (old) Nazi ties) are the real party-leaders.


(Koch + Merkel)
(Stoiber + Merkel)

[Booberdawg]

38. Somethin' tells me you might be on that "Ignore" list

but then I think I understand WHY that is - and it doesn't flatter ... well .... nevemind.....

My state went to drinking age 18 several moons ago and now I think it's back up to 21. Just curious - what were the nationwide reasons for that? I have a pretty good idea why it happened here.

And why not decriminalize pot? your is the first suggestion i've seen against it? I don't smoke pot - I'm just asking?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. I did say decriminalize just not legalize

why give the profits to Phillip Morris?

[Booberdawg]

98. My mistake

I commingled decriminalize pot with legalize/corporatize pot.

Thank you for correcting me on the difference and I agree.

[morningglory]

110. Tobacco is hard to grow and has to be dried

is attacked by bugs while growing, etc. I think pot is easy to grow if people are doing it in the woods. I don't think Phillip Morris is going to get rich packaging marijuana cigarettes. I think the crackheads could be lured off the evil crack if they could just grow pot and sit on their porches and slowly get lung cancer.

[opiate69]

43. nit-picking...

" States that had lower drinking ages eventually reverted back.."

Only as a result of extreme pressure and threats from the Federal Government...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

I agree with all that and a whole lot more.

No wonder I'll never get elected to anything.

[stanwyck]

3. Agree on all of the above

Our drug laws are stupid. We're overcrowding our prisons with drug offenders who are addicts, not criminals. Our courts are clogged. Too many people are spending time in jail for victimless crimes. It's expensive and ineffective. Worse, it's destructive. I'm sure we all agree that child prostitution is wrong. But as for consenting adults, I'm for legalized prostitution. I'm less sure about the drinking age...but do agree that we live in a bizarre world when you can serve in the military, and, heaven forbid, be drafted, but not get a drink in a bar. Makes no sense. If the Enron guys were druggies, they'd be put away for years. Since they only cheated thousands of people out of thousands of dollars, and lied outright on their annual reports, they'll walk.

[maxanne]

4. decriminalizing pot

is a really good idea.

The others are not, imo.

[morningglory]

14. Agree with all.

We had a visit last year from an underage German student (16). She drank when the group drank and had a wonderful time. Was not promiscuous and had good sense. I think our children are not trained to handle wine and beer. I think everyone should be allowed to grow pot in the back yard. Should legalize heroin and cocaine and just let the people who can not handle it, OD. Then they will no longer be a problem to society. Natural selection. I am from the 60's generation, and a lot of the really cool dudes from that era have emphesema or lung cancer. Again, a well-informed populace would be desirable, but it is not my concern if people have a "problem" with drugs. It would make our prescription drugs a hell of a lot cheaper if we could just go buy whatever we want at a drug store. Get the insurance companies and doctors out of the loop for the most part, after the drugs have been deemed safe by the FDA. We can look for what we want on the internet. If a lot of us OD, natural selection. I do not take any drugs on a regular basis. But if I need medication for the flu, I have to take an afternoon off from work. That costs money as I am a contractor. Go to the doctor. Money. Go to the drugstore. Much more money. Costs a blooming fortune, and there is no need.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. so true

half the medical establishment is nothing but a prescription drug monopoly scam. As if the PDR is some kind of magic book that you have to go to medical school to read.

[Fovea]

5. Ok

But raise the driving age to 21.
1 DUI = perm. loss of license.

[private_ryan]

7. 1 DUI = perm. loss of license?

you make a horrible mistake of driving drunk and you should never, ever drive again? Not even 60 years later?

without a car you're screwed in most areas.

[CanuckAmok]

17. I'm for that.

There's no excuse. DWI=permanent loss of license. If you're screwed without a car, you probably won't drink and drive. And if you still do with that potential penalty, you're probably too stupid to operate a vehicle anyway.

on edit= I can see you're point about "needing" to drive, but really, tough. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilidge. I kind of see drunk driving as loading a handgun and firing it wildly into a crowd of people. Sure, you have the provilidge of gun ownership, until you begin to use it as a weapon against the public, then you lose it.

[maxanne]

30. well, then

obey the law. That's pretty simple.

[DieboldMustDie]

41. 1 DUI = ineligible for federal elective office

Keep drunks out of the White House.

:evilgrin:

[sasquatch]

42. I like that

Keeps too stupid to do anything out of office

[sasquatch]

40. I disagree

One DUI shouldn't equate to your license being revoked.

[CanuckAmok]

46. Why on earth not?

I suppose one sniper attack shouldn't result in having your rifle taken away, even if you don't hit anyone?

[sasquatch]

81. How are they going to support themselves and their family

I can understand if they hit someone with their car you can make a good argument for their license revoked. Not for one DUI I'm sorry in the states you need your car to survive.

[CanuckAmok]

99. No, you don't.

You can survive without one. You just might have to move closer to where you work, find another job, or, god forbid, take the bus.

"But what if there is no bus?"

Tough. Should have thought of that before drink #1.

And, honestly, where is there no bus, or taxi, or rideshare, or bicycle shop, or walking-shoe store?

"How are they going to support themselves and their family" is a good question, but after the millions and millions of tax dollars spent educating people that drinking while impaired is moronic, that's a question which no relatively intelligent person shouldn't ask before having that first drink. I have no sympathy for anyone stupid enough to get behind the wheel of a car after drinking too much.

And I'm not apologetic.

The "right" to drive is such a hot-button with otherwise progressive thinkers. It's not a right, it's a perk of living in an affluent society. Abuse it, lose it. Country simple.

No lattitude for DWI. Admittedly, I'm more reactionary on this issue on most others, but I have personal reasons which I'd rather not get into on this forum.

[morningglory]

111. My cousin's son got so many DUI's that his license was taken away

for 5 years. He spent the whole 5 yrs working on fishing boats and stealing off boats for ciggies and beer. Then he got his license back and left the scene of an accident, drunk. Hopeless, hopeless. I don't know what the solution is, but some people have a problem. Beer habit seems to entail driving around, for some reason.

[sasquatch]

112. That's Awful

I feel bad for your cousin.

[tedoll78]

6. I love it when..

politicans make laws that illegalize practicing medicine without a license.. and then they pass laws that basically practice medicine, such as drug laws. Anyone else here see the irony?

[tedoll78]

11. And BTW..

can you imagine the tax revenue? Wow!

[never cry wolf]

8. I agree with most

all except for the drinking age, I know what trouble I got into when it was 19 in Illinois.

When my classmates and I pulled in to Brussles in 1978 we all split up looking for something interesting, one guy came back with his jaw disjointed and promptly led us to the red light district. Very clean area, people walking around in suits looking like Rush Street in Chi, Prostitutes sitting in the picture windows complete with a price list and board of health certificate.

We are sooooooooo prudish in this country, I swear.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. The key is regulation

If prostitution is legalized, as it is in Holland, there is a certain amount of regulation that takes place. The prostitutes have buzzers they can ring if a customer gets too violent, and the police respond-thusly, the prostitute is protected from harm. The prostitute must have regular health checks/inspections, and that protects all the people involved. Seems I also read that with it being legalized, the women have more control over it, and there is a lot less organized crime....

Marijuana should of course be legalized. It is stupid that so many people are in prison for it, while rapists and murderers are let go. None of the arguments for criminalizing it ever made sense to me. (And for the record, I've never used any illegal drug). Regulating it brings in tax money to the government, takes the huge profit margin out, and the criminal element goes away, looking for big money elsewhere....

I live in a dry county surrounded by dry counties. The hypocricy of the people around here is ridiculous-as is the instance of drunk driving. In places I have lived where it was legal, the instances of problems due to alcohol have been less. (For the record, I don't drink, either....)

[classics]

Pot yes, kitty yes, booze no.

Booze is as destructive as coke... kids dont need to become addicts even earlier.

[booksenkatz]

10. Agree to all

Especially prostitution. If someone wants to charge someone else for a sex act, whose business is it? No one complains when that person gives it away for free, so why should anyone care if money changes hands? A person has the right to sell his or her body for sex, and a person has the right to purchase a sex act. It's crazy that the law steps in and says, no, no, you have to do it for FREE.

[private_ryan]

13. nothing is free

one way or another we guys pay for it:)

[RecoveringAsshole]

120. I've never had to pay for it

Guess it all depends on you taste.

[CanuckAmok]

12. Yes, Yes, No

And I'm in Canada, where everything you list is fact...

1) Pot is basically decriminalized for personal consumptoion, but you can still get arrested if you're an asshole about it, or a dealer.

2) Sex commerce is fine between two adults. Why not? Damned if I've ever understood why not.

3) The drinking age here is 19. I rmemeber when I was 19, and looking back, that was probably too young to hang around in bars. I've heard of a two-tier system, whereby you can purchase liquor at 18 or 19 (i.e. buy a bottle of wine, or a six-pack to take home), but still need to be 21 to enter a licensed establishment. That seems like a good idea to me.

I always thought 21 was a good age.

Footnote: I used to live along the Ontario/NY State border. Ontario's drinking age is 19, NY's is 21. Guess what happened? Every 19 and 20 year old NY resident came to Ontario and got royally f***ed up every weekend. Many, many deaths on the highway between Niagara Falls and Buffalo, and other places. Lesson learned? Under 21 is too irresponsible to drink.

[private_ryan]

20. kids

or maybe they drunk just because it was illegal and tried to impress some chicks and look cool?

[ButterflyBlood]

22. exactly

that's the main reason I get drunk.

haven't you ever seen the Beavis and Butthead where they want to throw a party and get the bottle of beer from the homeless guy? Beavis then is complainin that his arm is hurting from holding the beer up all the time. Butthead replies: "Beavis, the chicks have to see you holding the beer when they come in so they know you're cool"

[ButterflyBlood]

15. yes yes yes

n/t

[barbaraann]

18. Yes but, yes but, yes but.

Pot - Eliminate boredom by enriching our culture; make life less stressful in America by putting Dems in every elected office to end the GOP war on ordinary people. End the failed War on Drugs by making drugs irrelevant, especially for teenagers. (The number one gateway to drug abuse is boredom.) This is not a pie-in-the-sky idea. I have raised my son to have a life where he doesn't need drugs because he has so many interests and he doesn't use drugs/alcohol or smoke and is a great kid.

Prostitution - Decriminalize prostition and solicitation AFTER tripling the minimum wage, providing universal health care and going after sex slave traffickers; institute sex industry education in high schools; go after the pimps and put them away for life.

Drinking - Lower the drinking age to 19 but institute conditional drivers' licenses in all states.

[NightTrain]

21. Let's do it, baby!

And while we're at it....

Will the Connecticut State Legislature kindly repeal that stupid law that forces liquor stores to close at 8:00 p.m. and all day on Sunday? Just because some looney serial killer was wasting package-store clerks late at night in the 1950s, do we still have to pay for his actions 45 years later?

No wonder we call New England the "Land of Steady Habits!"

[itsaliving]

24. According to Kodos...

Abortions for some... wavy little flags for others!


dont blame me.. i voted for kodos..

[Uzybone]

29. Yes yes and

yes to lowering it to 18. Same thing for pot and other drugs.

edit to add: and prostitution has long ceased to be a female business. Many men prostitute themselves too.

[Nicholas_J]

33. Complete agreement.

In every nation in which these things have been decriminalized, many other VIOLENT crimes have diminished. Rape drops. In Switzerland, theft dropped by 85 percent, due to decriminalization of Heroin.

Every nation that decriminalized non-violent victimless crimes experiences a LARGE rate of drop in other crimes, and gets to cut its law enforcement budgets by large amounts.

There is an old saying that most people when defaced with the need to change or make excuses to not change, get busy looking for the excuses. As Toynbee says, nations are much like people. When theey get old, they get conservative and resist changes.

Of all the western GOVERNMENTS, America's is the oldest.

Europe, IS older culturally, but historically all of its government systems date back only to the late 1920's with Scandanavia and With lowe than blatic europe, after WWII.

It is simply time to change, and change IMMEDIATELY. No bullshit about waiting for the FDA to do studies and such.

[1a2b3c]

35. yes, yes and yes.

why is pot illegal? Cause someone is making money off of it being that way.

Why is prostitution illegal? I have no idea, maybe some think it wont happen if its illegal??? I do know its much safer when its legal.

Why cant an 18 year old drink? Cause people figure they will drink and drive more, which is probably true. Lower the drinking age and stiffen the DUI laws would be what i would do.

[leftist_rebel1569]

37. Yes, Yes, and....well...

I'm for the legalization of pot, but it think it should be run through the FDA first, like any other food or drug. Then, if it passes, just make it so that distributors have to apply for licenses to sell pot.

By making prostitution illegal, it's making it an assload more dangerous. It's been done for thosands of years and won't ever stop unless EVERY person in the world becomes some sort of fundie religious zealot that lives in a monastery and never leaves...which won't happen. So, why not at least make it safe and legalize it, then regulate it from there?

i'm a little iffy on the drinking age thing. I think that it should be lowered to 18, but with all the DUIs and the people killed in car crashes makes me think twice about that. If it were to be lowered to 18, there should be much tougher restrictions put down to prevent drunk driving, like:

1st time: License suspended, $3000 fine or something like that
2nd time: License revoked, $10000 fine and you have to go to a class about drunk driving and have to pass it to get your license back
3rd time: License cancelled, 10-20 years in jail

[Nikia]

39. Legalize pot

I'd say decriminalize it but usually with how such things works, dealers continue to go to prision. Although big time dealers are usually not the most moral people in the world, I do not think it is right for users not to acknowledge that they must get their drug of choice from someone who is taking a legal risk. I think legalization would also protect teenagers and others from being encouraged to try hard drugs from dealers who might sell other drugs as well.
As far as the drinking age, I used to be for lowering it since many teenagers drink anyway. I have seen how destructive alcohol use can be and have seen many friends go through a heavy drinking phase at 21 when they could go to bars and buy as much alcohol as they wanted. I don't think that teenagers who may be high school seniors should go through that phase and possibly be buying alcohol for their younger high school friends.
As for prostitution, I do generally believe in keeping the government out of sexual matters. On the otherhand, as a married woman, I find it appalling that a man could casually stop at a safe, risk free brothel on the way home from work. I am also appalled that anyone would willingingly be employed in such a place. Maybe I have conservative values about sex but I know that I would find much employment degrading and it would probably mess with my head and make it hard for me to have a real sexual/romantic relationship. I don't think it is natural for women to want to have sex with every man (From an evolutionary point of view, we only can have a few offspring and want to make sure they have good genes). If she wished to be employed, she would have no choice. Yes, she could choose not to be employed in such an industry but in a bad economy and possibly single motherhood, some may feel that they have no choice. Isn't that state sponsored rape?

[mike_c]

44. that's kind of the point that I was trying to make above....

Yes, she could choose not to be employed in such an industry but in a bad economy and possibly single motherhood, some may feel that they have no choice. Isn't that state sponsored rape?

But as ButterflyBlood pointed out, how does putting her in jail for it help?

[Art_from_Ark]

116. Humans exhibit nearly every type of behavior of the higher animals

and mating practices are no exception.

Some people find mates by dancing, as do pheasants
Some by flashy displays, as do peacocks
Some humans have, or desire, harems, like deer, lions, and sea lions
Sometimes females will go with whoever shows the greatest strength, as with wild sheep
Sometimes the females do not show particular preferences for any one male, like dogs and cats.
Sometimes males and females alike like to "play around", as is the case with chimpanzees
Often, the males will leave after mating, like bears and foxes, while songbirds will stick together for a breeding season until the kids are grown up, then go their separate ways
And in a few cases, the couples are monogamous, like some wild geese and ducks

So how do all these different mating behaviors ensure that the best genes will be selected?

[Kat45]

45. Yes, uncertain, yes--and I want to talk about the drinking age

I happened to be in college at the time the drinking age was 18 here (Mass.), and I thought, and still think, the age made perfect sense. If I remember correctly, the states didn't raise the age back up to 21 because it didn't work, they did it because highway funds were held hostage by the federal govt unless they raised it back up. And the lobbying from groups like MADD probably sparked that whole move.

I think a big reason kids get drunk is because it's 'forbidden', unlike in Europe where kids grow up with wine at the table as a part of normal life. This country's attitude toward drinking is a major factor.

If it's legal to drink, a person can drink legitimately (in a bar or wherever) and take his or her time casually having a couple of drinks. When it's illegal, they get the booze and drink it down as quickly as possible to get totally drunk, dude, before they get caught.

[ButterflyBlood]

49. also

no one my age wants to have just a few beers, they want to get to the point where they're visibly drunk, as proof that they broke the law, which is pretty cool. And I'll admit I'm among them.

btw, my roommate last year had tons of beers in the fridge, but the only time he ever took them out was when girls were in the room. what does that show?

[Blue_Chill]

48. pot? yes Hookers? No Drink at 18? No

18 year olds drinking will lead to more drunk drivers. Increased protestution would increase the sex slave trade.

[CanuckAmok]

51. Re hookers:

It's can be argues that the whole reason protitution is historically verboten is that it can be used by women for their own empowerment. They have a commodity desired by men, but which (most) men are unable to find without women.

Look at he Klondike, where prostitution was basically ignored. Some smart woem used their ability to earn through their bodies to elevate their social/economic status--some were even elected to public office.

Legalizing/regulating prostitution will probably eliminate the "slevery" side of it. Unfortunately, it will likely lead to a lower level of income for the women who work in a legal, buyers' market system as opposed to those who work tax-free, in a discreet, sellers'-market.

[Blue_Chill]

62. It reinforces the idea that women are sex objects

and it will not be unionized allowing for massive abuse. The sad reality is that people look down on prostitutes, the goverment,the police, the justice sytem as a whole will not do much to help them.

Also a series of laws controlling the spread of disease would be needed. AIDS can be missed by tests yet still be transmitted.

[ButterflyBlood]

63. "and it will not be unionized"

and how do you know this?

how about we just outlaw pimping and make all women in the industry self employed? Then there's no one at the top to abuse anyone.

[Blue_Chill]

65. The sex industry

has failed many times to unite. In fact even though many women in porn own the companies and make high dollar how many women are taken advantage of and make next to nothing? 90% of them or more?

As for outlawing pimping, perhaps you don't understand what capitalism means when applied here. You won't have a moron in a fur coat in 70's shades abusing women, but you will have a busniess owner that employs these ladies, may be female may be male but who cares point is the ladies doing the dirty work will get shafted.

[private_ryan]

70. shafted

you get shafted no matter what you do, unless you work for youself:).
Look at strippers, say all you want but they laugh all the way to the bank and only work 2-3 days a week to live large. Who cares if it's moral or immoral by my or your standards?

Also porn stars do it for money, should we outlaw porn?

[ButterflyBlood]

73. that's also a good point

prostitutes have been known to secretely tape them and their clients and sell the tapes, does it then become legal?

[Blue_Chill]

77. Who is talking about morals?

I'm considering the effect on society and on the majority or close to majority of the women involved. Morlaity has nothing to do with this.

Should we outlaw porn? No. But we can look at that industry and how many get screwed and taken advantage of to see what will happen with legalized prostitution. Only prostitutes or lower on the employment scale then porn stars so they will have worse condiditions.

[private_ryan]

83. why not outlaw porn?

have you seen any lately? Women being abused by guys for $200 -$300 dollars and the tapes are sold to everyone who has the $$. Why not protect those women who are not as smart as you or Kim Gandy?

[Blue_Chill]

95. I wouldn't outlaw it

but I would regualt the hell out of it and toss a hell of a lot of people in jail. Too many exploited people.

[private_ryan]

64. so having them blow guys for $10 in truck stops doesn't?

get rid of the feminist talking points and look at the big picture.

[Blue_Chill]

66. How about not having women do that at all

You should look into the business, many women are victims that are their because of an addiction or incredible bad luck. I would wager that close to half or most prostetitutes aren't there by choice.

People have this moronic notion that they all love their job and the mean ol goverment won't let'm work. Look into the sex slave trade or the old bag and drug in NY.

[ButterflyBlood]

69. so they're forced into it, so let's lock them up in jail for it

yeah, that'll help.

i knew a girl last year who was willing to have sex with any guy or girl (she was bisexual) you could name. if she was willing to do that for free, why wouldn't she for money? she's not being forced into anything.

[Blue_Chill]

74. I don't want them locked up at all

I don't think something has to be legal for the punishment to fit the crime. Prostitutes should be handled on a case by case basis and helped by our legal system. I don't accept the notion that illegal = punishment. However I wouldn't give them a choice about rehab, Iwouldnt give them a choice about job training. You get caught you get helped wether you like it or not. What best for society should be the role of our justice system.

Also your friend sounds great but what percentage of prostitues does her type make? I have yet to see any evidence the the majority of prostitutes do it because they just really like to have sex. In fact most of the stuff I've seen shows that they cease to enjoy sex at all. It just becomes something to do to get by.

I'm sorry but I'm failing to see the positives out weigh the negative in legalizing this trade.

[private_ryan]

88. how about not telling every woman what to do and what not to do???

if you see an old lady working at McDonald's you can bet she's not there by choice too...

[CanuckAmok]

100. Sorry, why penalise the hooker for society's perception of her?

I don't get that--it's not logical. Lots of people don't like or approve of Hip-hop--would you say that rappers should be denied a living?

STDs are a risk of promiscuity, which is in abundance with or without the sex trade.

Honestly, who's a bigger STD risk--a partner you pick up in a bar for free, or a professional with some education of how to prevent risk, and a good supply of new condoms?

[TreasonousBastard]

52. Legalize every damn thing!

I have a libertarian steak in me that says it is absolutely nobody's business, much less the gummint's, if I want to smoke a joint or screw a whore. Or don't want to.

I cringe at any law that's aimed at victimless "crimes," or based on someone's concept of morality.

Having said that, however, decriminalizing some substances or activites causes other problems. If we, as a society, allow heroin to be sold openly, then there is some responsibility for the society to insure its purity. We do regulate alcoholic berverages, tobacco, legal drugs, and even hairdressers. Allowing prostitution would imply some sort of regulation, and coming up with the rules would drive this uptight society nuts. (puns not entirely unintended)

Note that even the Dutch, who have 60 pages of sex ads in five languages in the Amsterdam yellow pages and a redlight district 1km square, are somewhat embarassed about their most popular tourist attraction.

Also note the problems Nevada whorehouses have had trying to stay open, even though they were legal.

Plato's Retreat, where pay sex was never allowed, was forced to close just because <gasp> they had SEX in there.

[Forkboy]

53. yes,yes and no

[Kamika]

54. i dont agree on any

Maybe just maybe i do on prostitution.

I dont see why we should lower drinking age, its a bad thing to drink, why do it even younger? I dont buy the "they do it anyway" yes maybe they do it anyway but atleast someone wont give their kid a drink because of it. I know my parents didnt, when i asked them if i could.

Pot.. see above, im extremely anti drugs why legalize a drug? I dont buy the "its not dangerous" argument.. ppl HAVE had bad trips from pot, and also alot of ppl go to heavier drugs From stuff like pot etc.

About prostitution yes i could see that there would be special brothels or such like in nevada. But they would all strive into giving these women a education and a real job. I dont want to live in a countrry where we say its ok to sell your body for sex.
You say its victimless when a woman choses to have sex for money? you know how many of these women do it for drugs? it is not victimless.


I also want to add that at the shelter i volunteer i see the effects of "pot", "drinking" and "prostitution"

Anyway thats my opinions hope i dont sound too much like a conservative because im not. But i do got principles

[Nlighten1]

55. Yes, Yes, Yes

[MiltonLeBerle]

57. Yes, Yes, and No. Plus one more choice: RAISE the age to drive.

I'm against lowering the drinking age, and all for raising the age that people can drive to 18, and/or age 17 w/high school graduation.

[Deja Q]

58. You'll love librul me!

De-criminalize marijuana: All for it. Keep it regulated to hinder misuse. Keeping it illegal hasn't hindered anything and has only added to CRIME by all parties involved. Alcohol was once made illegal in the 1920s. Look what happened; not too dissimilar from the drug stuff.

Prostitution: Again, legal and regulated for safety reasons. What's the problem?!

Lowered drinking age? Only if the minimum DRIVING age were to be increased, compelling our friendly young partygoing boozehounds to get designated drivers. Even sober high school kids are prone to causing trouble, juveniles as they are and even then, and a couple of them were playing a nasty game on the freeway trying to get motorists to swerve into the opposite lane as they were appearing to swerve into mine. Naturally, I looked to see the car in the other lane so I decided to let the little bastards hit me and suffer the maximum consequences I could shove down their worthless anti-social throats. When it comes to human life, ou don't do shit like this to jeoprodize it. Period.

[tarkus]

59. Legalize pot, DO NOT legalize prostitution, im unsure about drinking age..

It is very important though that people are not put in positions where they feel as though they have no choice but to sell their bodies and sex, and so there need to be strong programs for the poor and, well, basically regulation for everything you can think of to guard the interests of the poor and the working class against those of the wealthy capitalists.

[Aristus]

60. Yes, yes, and sort of.

Instead of lowering the drinking age to 18, I would raise the age of service to 21. Potential soldiers could get a little more life experience, and a little school under their belts, if they chose.

[FireHeart]

61. Yes, No, No.

Sorry, Prostitution is NOT a victimless crime and anyone who tries to make it so is a lunatic. The diseases the "john" brings home to his wife (or other) are not harmless by any means. You know it and I know it. So stop calling it victimless. When a wife finds out she has an STD or AIDS because her idiotic hubby needs to sow some seed, she IS a victim. End of story.

Lowering the drinking age is a bit more complex. If you are old enough to fight and die for your country, then you are old enough to drink. In my view, 21 is an appropriate age for either. Anything under, no.

Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.

[private_ryan]

67. the husband chooses to go to the prostitute and the prostitute agrees to s

sex. STDs are all over the place and the prostitutes out of all people will make sure you wear one and they are checked by health Board or whatever.

That secretary or co-worker the husband is having sex with might not be as clean as she looks...

The wife is a victim too if the husband blows all the money or a large part of it drinking, gambling etc. Suggestions on those so the wife is not a victim?

[Blue_Chill]

68. And that is why cheating should be illegal

It has the potential to harm innocent parties much like drunk driving.

[ButterflyBlood]

71. you support adultery laws?

that's about on the level of supporting sodomy laws, it's the Religious Right moral brigade in action.

[Blue_Chill]

78. Yes I do

I don't think you shoul dbe able to damage and potentially kill your spouse via disease and suffer no punishment. Adultery causes massive pain to many. It has nothing to do with morality at all.

You put your family at risk because of your own irresponsiblilty. It's like drunk driving, your action put innocent people at risk.

[private_ryan]

72. now that's an idea

I suggest you guys organize and make it happen.

[Blue_Chill]

79. So then you don't care

about spouses that contract AIDS from cheating spouses. Fuck them? How about the lives of families crushed by the irresponsibility of there cheating spouses? Fuck them too?

This isn't about morality, this is about punishing those that put others at risk because of their own irresponislbe actions. No difference between that and drunk driving in my book.

[ButterflyBlood]

82. AIDS is more easily spread through anal sex

it's too bad Lawrence vs. Texas now means we can't outlaw anal sex anymore.

[Blue_Chill]

94. Strawman again

I am saying that cheating endangers your spouse, a innocent person. I am not at all saying all things that may spread HIV should be outlawed.

If you plan on responding with another strawman you will be placed on ignore for being a complete waste of my time.

[private_ryan]

85. I care. You cheat on your wife or girlfriend and face the firing squad

the next day. Good enough for you?

[ButterflyBlood]

87. how about we stone people who committ adultery?

or at least give them 50 lashes. It worked for the Taliban didn't it?

[Blue_Chill]

91. Oh forget it

You people don't want to discuss reality. You rather just create moral strawmen and bash at them.

When you are ready to discuss this issue seriously let me know. Until then have fun with your mental masterbation.

[Boudicea]

84. This is a scary idea BlueChill

[MiltonLeBerle]

89. Maybe if those 'innocent parties' learned how to take care of business

the husband wouldn't act on the urge to take his business to a pro.

[Blue_Chill]

92. Yeah it's her fault

how evolved of you.

[MiltonLeBerle]

117. You're the one that wants government legislation of morality.

If that's your idea of evolution, you can have it.

[Blue_Chill]

121. The moral strawman

Please answer one question. Why should anyone be allowed to put innocent people at risk maybe causing them severe emotional distress, economic ruin, and possibly give them a life ending incurable disease once they have agreed not to and get away with it scott free?

This idea that these laws legislate morality is nothing more then a diversion tactic used by those that want to do as they wish in life regardless of who they harm and not have to pay for it. I'm sorry but when your behavior effects the life of others DIRECTLY you have certain responsibilities. No one forces you to get married, if you want to live a life of bed hopping then do so, no one will stand in your way.

Your 'it's her fault' response proves what I'm saying. Anything to buck personal responsiblity.

[Uzybone]

96. are you living in the 1600s

cheating should be illegal??? Your kidding? If the government gets fulltime into the "morality" business a lot of things you take for granted will be gone.

[Blue_Chill]

105. Are you living in fantasy land?

Where cheating is ok and doesn't fuck people lives up? Well here's a news flash, this has nothing to do with the wrath of God, it has to do with real life effects of irresponsible behavior.

I'm not asking for jail time for those that simpley cheat. They should however lose *BIG* in divorce court. Those that do pass on a disease to thier spouse should get jail time, and a lot of it. If your irresponisble behavior harms someone else then you should be punished for it.

[bloom]

113. Seems to me

that (former) spouses have been sued for damages - (for passing on STDs).

So - no new laws needed. :)

[FireHeart]

75. Don't be ridiculous.

The only state I know of that requires (or even suggests) that hookers be "clean" is Nevada. Even then, that is no guarantee of safety for the victims, because it would require PROOF that the hooker required "protection"--and that is not likely to be easily found.

STDs are indeed all over the place. I never suggested that passing an STD by a non-hooker be treated any less than passing BY a hooker. However, you have to admit...the hooker on a NY side street isn't likely to worry overmuch about passing (or catching) an STD. She's usually more interested in making enough bread for her next drug score.

This this useless. The "victimless" crime thread has been explored countless times before. No amount of discussion will change anyone's minds. There are those who are "into" it, and those who aren't. I
have SEEN families destroyed by compulsive gamblers, prostitution and alcoholism. These are NOT victimless crimes. Because the victims are only too apparent.

I give up.

[private_ryan]

80. Nevad fyi is the only state that has legalized prostitution so that's why

should we ban alcohol, casinos, sports betting because they are crimes with victims?

should we ban sports too? You know if the husband starts playing football or baseball and gets hurt the victims are only too apparent.

People should start regulating their own family according to their "morals", not everyone else's.

[Blue_Chill]

106. Stop using the moral strawman

Simpley because you want to live in a world where your irresponsiblity goes unpunished. If your mistakes harm innocent people you should pay for it. Unless you can tell me why *YOU* should be allowed to ruin someone elses life and not be held responsible don't waste my time.

[FireHeart]

119. You got that right!

:thumbsup:

[Nikia]

124. Going to a prostitute is easier than an affair

As one of my husband's mens magazine's said,"You don't pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to go away." I think that would be more of a temptation if the cheater really only does want sex and not anothr relationship. I also think legalization would probably lower the price while making it more convient. It would be more of a temptation. I twould also encourage the cheater to see women as sex objects since he can have whichever woman he wants for that purpose.

[WilliamPitt]

76. Stoned, drunk and fucked

[private_ryan]

86. do you thinked a few laws would've protected your rights

on the "fucked" part :)?

[foxy]

123. I always miss out on the fun stuff.....

:(

[WillParkinson]

90. Well, I think it's about to become 3-4 people...

First off, why does everyone assume that a prostitute has to be a woman? Here in Milwaukee, years ago, there were plenty of guy prostitutes (gay kids or straight kids looking for money) hanging around the adult bookstores.

I'll agree, to a point, on prostitution. If a woman or a man (of age) truly wants to sell their body then I guess that is their choice.

I can't agree on the other two, though. Sorry. I've seen plenty of people that I work with drink (not of legal age) and how they behave after they have been drinking and then drive anyway.

And I've always been against drugs of any kind (unless they are prescription drugs). Sorry, that's just me.

[private_ryan]

93. :)

I don't just block people who disagree with me, I only block people who in my eyes are as bad as the christian taliban on certain issues.

we can agree to disagree and the reason I posted the note is that if one of the ultra-feminsts crowd doesn't get an answer they know why.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

109. No you posted it to call us names with impunity

because all you can do is repeat yourself and you can't debate someone with a disagreement. All you can do is call names. Why are you so filled with fear and hate of powerful women?

[ButterflyBlood]

115. how can feminists be anti-choice?

and tell other women what they can't do with their bodies, which is basically what they're doing to my, ahem, "sexually independent" friend? or think that the best solution for women with problems of poverty and joblessness is to lock them up in jail.

[Nikia]

125. If you are desparately poor

Many prostitutes are desparately poor. Some are poor because of an addiction and some are poor because they have children who they have trouble feeding. They feel forced to have sex for money and usually with anyone who has money. This last part can make all the difference in the world. Will your friend really have sex with anyone or does she have some slight standards in regards to hygeine, age, weight,attractiveness, and personality? I equate prostitution out of desparation as similiar to rape and feel that it can have similiar effects on the women involved. I also think that we should not encourage the sexual objectification of women. I know that it is widespread in this society, but this is the ultimate objectification.

[smallprint]

97. yes,yes and most obviously yes

to the people who answered no on the last one-- how can you justify sending off a young person at age 18 TO DIE FOR THEIR COUNTRY, and yet deny them the right to buy alcohol in that country? (or for that matter, deny them the right to do ANYTHING their fellow citizens can do.) please explain how that make sense. seriously -- go ahead.

[jerryster]

101. legalization and the lower drinking age

I favor legalization of marijuana and prostitution. I can't however, get on board with lowering the drinking age. Yes, I did my share of underage drinking. Yes, I may be showing bias of my age now (49). But the fact is that in those states that vigorously enforce the age 21 laws, the number of deaths caused by drunk underage drivers has gone down and not by an insignificant amount. Yes, I know that people who serve in the military can go to war at 18 or whatever. But to me the lower death rate trumps that argument.

[smallprint]

104. is there a lower death rate in iraq?

you have a good argument, up to a point. the point being that war is much much much more dangerous than being legally allowed to drink. how is one danger acceptable and not the other?

i mean if you really want to prevent unnecessary death... maybe the age of service should be raised to 21

[durutti]

102. My Stance

Marijuana should be totally legalized. I have mixed feelings about prostitution and alcohol.

[sujan]

103. me

de-criminalize pot

legalize prostitution

I hate booze so I dont care.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

107. Thanks goodness for this thread..now we know what all the guys

that can't manage to get laid for free want. Glad we got that sorted out.

[bloom]

114. yes

.

[RecoveringAsshole]

118. Ain't that the truth.

Never even considered a group fuck or a bunch a hookers myself. And who needs all those extra people in the room anyway??:shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

122. I'm Ok With Your Proposal!

I'm a bit ambivalent on the lowered drinking age. Pros and cons come to mind. As for the rest, i essentially agree with your thoughts.

The Professor