Out of these bands, which one would you consider Goth?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

Poll question: Out of these bands, which one would you consider Goth?

I've heard all of these bands referred to as Goth, but as far as I'm concerned, only one really is. My hypothesis, as far as there is one, is that many people confuse psychedelic or melancholic music with Gothery. And yes, some aren't Goth in the least, but it hasn't saved them from the big Goth tarring brush.

[Beware the Beast Man]

1. What, no Evanescence????

Feel free to beat me about the face and head with a sack of doorknobs.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. They don't exist. I have removed them from the plane of existence.

[sniffa]

4. they're christian rock

but then, what's the difference?

[LiberalVoice]

8. Actually they are not a Christian band.

For some reason there Record label thought they were and had them playing on Christian Stations. The band then told them that they weren't a christian group so they took them off the stations.

[sniffa]

10. yeah i know

but they suck donkey nuts, so i'm gonna go with the chris rock story.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

18. Evanescence isn't Christian.

They're Goth.
Duckie

[LiberalVoice]

6. Consider it done.

:puke:

[Beware the Beast Man]

7. You all realize I'm kidding, right?

About Evanescence and the sack of doorknobs.

[htuttle]

2. I don't see how anyone could consider Bauhaus 'not Goth'

They sing about vampires. At least one of their songs has a bunch of lyrics in Latin.

I always thought Bauhaus sort of invented Goth -- or at least they were there at the conception. :shrug:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. For me, it's definitely between Bauhaus and the Sisters of Mercy.

Although, I have my doubts about one of them. They're both really Dark Bowie.

[eyesroll]

9. Nick Cave isn't goth (except in the "Babe, I'm On Fire" video,

where he plays the "sweet little Goth"), but much of his audience is.

I did feel like the least cool person on the planet at the concert.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

12. It's because of 'Release the Bats', by Nick's old band,

The Birthday Party, although 'The Mercy Seat' may have something to do with it.

[Wickerman]

16. I can go with the old Birhtday Party stuff

but Bauhaus really defined Goth for me. Hell, even most of their LP covers wore black.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

19. It's Bauhaus.

The Sisters of Mercy sailed close, but anyone who records with Jim Steinman cannot be considered Goth. I have the sneaking suspicion they were an elaborate joke.

[Wickerman]

21. lol, you too?

I always felt like I just never "got it" when SoM got into my rotation. Singing about Bela Lugosi IS goth.

[flamingyouth]

40. Plus they were in "The Hunger"

I mean, what more do you really need?

LOL - I remember going to see that film when it came out, and on our bus ride home, my friends and I sat near an elderly man who looked JUST LIKE David Bowie did as he was near death in film. We were kind of freaked out by it. I mean, the guy could have been his twin. Weird.

[NashVegas]

27. "Southern Goth" Fits Though

Think of "Tupelo," for instance.

I voted for Siouxsie; Bauhaus were just too arty for me to think of them as Goth, "Bela" aside.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

28. Yeah, there is an element of Southern Gothic, even Australian Gothic.

'Henry's Dream' is pretty close to a Goth Western.

[sundog]

11. It's all about what you like -- we all know what pop is

--

[ret5hd]

13. is diamanda galas considered goth?

or just weird?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. Hmm. Good one.

I'll go with 'unique'. That covers a multitude of sins.

[dolo amber]

17. No, she is considered

excrement. x(

[vi5]

15. All are kinda sorta with the exception of the Cocteau Twins...

I think most of those bands have goth leanings. I dont know that I would call any of them out and out goth.

To me the personification of a goth band is Christian Death and most of those bands of that ilk who revel in the imagery as well as the sound. The bands you listed don't really fully wallow in the goth imagery and theatrics. Maybe touch upon it but not really revel in it.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

20. Even the Jesus and Mary Chain?

There's nothing Gothy about them, so far as I can see. Of course, the poll is about bands who stand accused of Gothness, not actual Goth bands, which is why the Fields of the Nephilim and the Mission aren't up there (although both bands belong to a weird genre of spaghetti western goth)

[vi5]

23. Oh, I didn't see J&MC on there. You're right about that...

Nothing goth about them.

I would also even consider The Mission a stretch, although Nephilim is definitely in the ballpark if not standing right at home plate.

[derby378]

30. Skinny Puppy - goth or industrial?

Me, I'd say industrial, but apparently a lot of goths loved them, too. I think they tended to be more introspective and less cyberpunk than your average run-of-the-mill "gee, let's overdose on William Gibson novels and Max Headroom episodes and then write songs about how alienated we feel" cyber-industrial outfit.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

31. Industrial, i'd say.

[Squeech]

22. Goth's "big tent"

All the bands you listed have some of the Goth stigmata.

The Cure dress in black all the time, as do their fans. Siouxsie does her makeup roughly the same way, although she's not really as monochromatic as Robert Smith.

Cocteau Twins got on the list because their record label, 4AD, was also home to a fair number of Goths (the guy who ran the label also led the band This Mortal Coil) and because they used as much echo and reverb as any Goth. My favorite Goth band is probably Dead Can Dance, whose best records were on 4AD (check out Aion, it's great).

I think Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds made the list because their best material was about heroin addiction-- not truly a Goth subject, but close enough for dark guitar chords.

The correct genre designation for Diamanda Galas is "schrei," which I may not have spelled correctly as I don't speak German.

[tigereye]

25. I never thought of Dead Can Dance as Goth

of course I have rarely seen pictures of them. I always think of them as atmospherically medieval.

Most of that list didn't seem Goth either. But then I am hardly an expert on Gothery. Although I think it looks really cool.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Is "Goth" a sound or a style of eye-makeup?

I do like the look--senior year in high school, I stopped getting my hair "done", had my ears pierced & wore lots of black. Guess I wanted to be a Beat. However, I graduated in 1966 & the psychedelicism overcame all that darkness.

At their best, Dead Can Dance really could transport you to another time & place. A darker time & place.

[tigereye]

35. wanting to be a beat sounds really cool

I think the punks were interested in some of that, as were many other avant styles of different generations.

as for goth, I always saw it as a concern with the dark side of things, followed by the clothing. But then I am no expert.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

37. The cynic would say that it was middle-class suburban youth

desperate to have some mystery, or depth. But I suppose that covers most youth cultures, so maybe you shouldn't listen to that cynic.

[tigereye]

42. twasn't thee, no?

I don't see you as a cynic.(?/!) I guess on some level, I thought they were attracted to the idea of being vampires.

if they want depth, they should read poetry, dammit.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

43. I'm not a cynic, or at least I try not to be.

[tigereye]

46. yeah you don't come across as one

I am generally an optimist myself.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

47. I try to be.

Onwards and upwards.

[DBoon]

24. Siouxsie isn't goth?

Explain.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

26. She isn't. The Banshees are psychedelic.

She does look gothish, but that's about it.

[DBoon]

32. Psychedelic?

They don't sound anything like the Strawberry Alarm Clock to me.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

34. No, but there is a Syd Barrett-esque side to them.

Neo-psychedelic, I'd say.

[tigereye]

36. neo-crypto-proto-post -modernist- avant- garde- minimalist

something or other... couldn't help myself ;)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

38. Exactly.

My dear tigereye, I think you've nailed it.

[tigereye]

41. it's bad enough with films

let alone music. i.e. I have met younger people who think that what I see as "hardcore" is actually punk. But what do I know, I was just there in the late 70s. :silly:

[Avalux]

29. Bauhaus

They had an atmosphere about them the others didn't - effectively scary (they were to me at the time). Just wearing black didn't mean you were goth.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

39. Would Dead Can Dance's first album qualify?

[Dukkha]

44. as a Goth DJ, here's my 2¢

on who should be added:

Christian Death
Alien Sex Fiend
Skinny Puppy
Gene Loves Jezebel
Razed in Black
Mephisto Waltz
The Mission UK
Switchblade Symphony
The Damned
Spahn Ranch
London After Midnight
Electric Hellfire Club
Gitane Demone
Specimen
Lords Of The New Church
Xoricst

[Screaming Lord Byron]

45. No, but they're actual Goth bands (with the exception of The Damned)

the bands in the poll are people who were called Goths but weren't. That's what the poll is about.

[Dukkha]

48. ah

I should have actually read your post. In that case just add The Damned (punk)

Actually the defining trait among all goth bands is that they will always deny being goth.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

49. Yeah. Goth is the parentless child of rock genres.

No-one wants to admit to it.

[NashVegas]

51. Skinny Puppy - Goth?

Shit, where's my can opener?

[Chovexani]

50. I never get the point of these discussions.

Because, quite frankly, Goth means different things to different people. I'm a fan of all the bands listed in the poll and while I consider some more Goth than others, I can't think of a single artist up there who didn't have at least one song or album that at the very least sounded Gothic. Maybe not Projekt Goth, but it's still there. Not to mention the fact that even if some people don't think they're Goth (tho' I don't know of anyone who really disputes Bauhaus being labelled as such), many of these bands are listed as influences by artists who self-label as Goth.

Also the Gothic label is pretty encompassing...my musical taste leans more towards the darkwave end of the spectrum (The Cruxshadows, Love Spirals Downward, The Changelings, etc.) though I do enjoy a lot of the more guitar-oriented acts like London After Midnight. And most of the music stylings in the poll can be placed somewhere along the spectrum.

As for the earlier question upthread (and it ties into this), Goth is many different things to many different people. For some it's purely about the music and they scoff at the fashion. For some it's purely about fashion and they could care less about the music (this is where most of the Hot Topic kiddies fall). For others it's a philosophy and a worldview, and for yet more people it's a combo of all these things. I would fall into the latter category...to me it's a lifestyle choice, even though I don't dress the part 24/7 (I have a muggle day job).

Goths ourselves can't agree on how to define ourselves and the music, and even the fashion (ask a Geriatric Goth what Goth fashion is and then ask a Perkygoff :P) although there are basic things everyone can agree on. At the end of the day, it's in the heavily-lined eye of the beholder. Hell I happen to think the Smashing Pumpkins had their Goth moments, particularly the Adore album...and didn't Billy Corgan self-identify as Goth in their very early pre-Gish period? It's a nebulous thing.

I'm also wary of these kinds of discussions because so often I've seen them degenerate into "well, if you like So-and-So you're not really Goth" usually said by Goths, or the Bob Boudelang-esque "So-and-So is my favorite band, they're not Goth so stop saying that!!" said by people who hate Goths. I think the music is more important than the label. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of either of those things, just sharing what I've seen. YMMV.