Is rock music dying?

[commander bunnypants]

IMHO it is. I dont feel much good music is being written anymore. It is all thrash. Nothing close to The Who, The Beatles, The DEAD. I did see a video by the group disturbed. The drummer while weird looking was good even great. But I am sliding more into Bluegrass, and real country. Thoughts people?

DDQM

[wtmusic]

1. Dead

thanks to corporate assimilation and Napster.

Thanks.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. how so napster?

if you are talking record sales...maybe. But here in NYC WNEW is no longeer the home "where rock lives". WNEW is now dead. Seems to me to be a purely cultural shift in the market.

[LoZoccolo]

33. I kind of agree...

Napster's defenders are pretty stalwart (however you spell it) and are going to argue that they never copy anything that they wouldn't buy and that it encourages them to buy more, but when you think of it, if less albums are bought, then only those albums that the record companies know will sell a lot will get put out.

And from what I hear, there /are/ less albums coming out. I've seen the argument that people have made saying that's the real answer there's less albums being sold, but I'm wondering if file trading caused less variety because now a certain amount of piracy takes a chunk out of the return on investment, so the record companies better make a careful investment. I remember in the late eighties when people started talking about "alternative" music, it seemed like there was a lot more obscure albums being put out by major labels.

I realize the record labels do all sorts of things people don't like, but I just don't see how file-trading is supposed to solve them. If it really does lead more people to buy more albums then they'd just let it go. Or if there was a way for bands to make money selling music direct from them to the consumer, they'd do it (nothing's stopping them).

[NashVegas]

43. File Sharing Myths

File sharing is not causing sales to go down. Well, maybe for Britney Spears and Madonna it is, and if so, that's as it should be. OTOH, a couple of years ago, I had a 17 year old Swedish kid (ICQ) ask me to recommend a band to him. I gave him the name of 4 Replacements tunes to seek out on Napster. Two weeks later he was living in nirvana from the 5 albums he'd bought and loved as a result. Albums that never got played on mainstream radio.

The problem is how radio and records work together. Labels will decide what they are going to budget for promotion; radio will play the suckiest act in the world if they are convinced a label is going to devote major resources to MAKING that act a hit. They won't look or listen twice at the best album of the year if they don't think it will get support.


Kids own computers the way their parents owned rock. That's why sales are down. Not because little Jimmy is downloading songs, but because if Jimmy has to decide between buying comp. supplies and buying a fucking John Mayer CD, the supplies win. And if he gets curious enough, he can download. And if he thinks it's good, *maybe* he'll buy.

And Jimmy can do things with him computer Alan Turing never imagined in much the same way Jimi Hendrix did things Les Paul never thought of. Jimmy can find things to do with him computer from online message boards and other geeks, who are freely posting about things they think are cool, just like the way your favorite DJ used to be able to pick out and play music they thought was cool, in the days before their station managers turned to computers to control the playlist (how ironic is that?).

Bottom line: sales are down because record labels refuse to let the youngest generations of record buyers decide for themselves, what should be promoted and be popular.

[wakfs]

2. That dog died years ago

Thanks to the greedy recording industry, which would rather sue its postential customer base than upgrade its antiquated business model.
Do any of the executives making those business decisions even LIKE music?

[Raenelle]

40. We should do a poll on when it died. I'd say 1976-79 or so.

n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

41. you're obviously not a Clash fan

or Ramones, or Police, or ...(fill in favorite band from 80's)

[wakfs]

44. I think...

...when Cobain killed himself is when rock pretty much died. He was the last hope.

[xJlM]

3. It's gone, unfortunately

I pretty much gave up on it when SRV died. Still, there's thirty years of old rock to listen to.

[wyldwolf]

4. Nope!

Study last year concluded it was still the biggest selling genre.

I'll admit I don't understand the appeal of much of today's rock, but I'm an old fart and I'm not supposed to understand it. Rock is and always has been music for the young.

I may think what I listened to when I was younger is better than today's, but my brothers thought what I listened to was crap and their outdated stuff ruled.

Of course, my parents thought we were all misquided and nothing good had been recorded since 1959.

[quispquake]

5. On the underground...

There is still some great stuff coming out, but as a MOVEMENT, it's dead dead dead...

Check out:

The Von Bondies (GREAT trashy rock & roll...saw them opening for the Cramps back in May...)

Candy Snatchers (Awesome punk rock intensity)

Comets on Fire (Intense Psychedelic wall of noise rock)

And many more...the best stuff is the indy stuff...(hasn't it always been?)

[wyldwolf]

9. A movement?

If that is the case the "movement" died when Elvis went into the army.

[bif]

6. Disagree.

I haven't listened to rock in a long time. Mainly jazz these days. But through my daughter's interest in music I've been getting into some of the Indie stuff. I think there's some excellent songwriting being done these days. Pick up "Lost and Gone Forever" by Guster. Great songwriting and vocals. There are scores of other bands around that are equally good. Check out www.allmusic.com Excellent website. I've discovered some good groups in the "Similar Artists" section of some bands discography pages.

[paper chase guy]

7. not at all...

You may have to look a little harder than you used to, but it still flourishes in many forms.

[GumboYaYa]

8. No way.

It is just growing and diversifying.

Check out The Flaming Lips, The White Stripes, North Mississippi All Stars, String Cheese Incident, Keller Williams, and Galactic (too name just a few) to see the incredible diversity and breadth of Rock these days.

[mac56]

10. 'Twas ever thus.

It's been rare in the history of rock music that the truly good stuff has been widely dispersed and featured on the airwaves. The '60s comes to mind, but even then some schlock was put out there too. It's still there, you just have to search for it.

[paper chase guy]

14. few of my favorites lately:

interpol, sigur ros, new pornographers, godspeed you black emperor, and blur. (among many many others :))

I also like the flaming lips and white stripes quite a lot.

[GOPisEvil]

17. You have good taste!

I just saw The New Pornographers Sunday evening! :thumbsup:

[GOPisEvil]

19. Hey - you coming down to Austin?

:hi:

[GumboYaYa]

20. Unfortumately my wife has to work that weekend.

I asked last night. That festival looks awesome though. I'm green with envy.

[GOPisEvil]

25. Hey - that's one less plane ticket to buy!

;-)

They have them every year in September, so you can come next year. Oh, start planning for South By Southwest coming in March (www.sxsw.com)

[Dirk39]

11. It's allready dead...

It's not just Bon Jovi or similar BS. There's still good music around, but in a way the emancipatory content, rock music might have had in the past, is just completely replaced by the sexism that always was a part of it and the MTV-spectacle music has become. Music was always commercial and a lot of nonsense was published, but all the niches are just commercial crap too these days. For me it has even infected the past. I simply don't understand the reasons that got me into Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, when I was about 10. While someone like Hendrix is still one of the greatest musician ever. Would rather see him standing next to Coltrane or Davis than in any reach of Robert Plant or Jon Bon Jovi.
That american white middleclass rockmusic has become the worst and most boring music in the world might have to do with the evolution of the northamerican culture in general. Maybe it's the cultural isolation and seperatism after a period like the 60ies and 70ies, when the USA was open to the world and influenced by other cultures, while at the same time, the gates between the different cultures inside the USA seemed to open a bit.
Just my impression from Germany,
Dirk

[Fenris]

12. Rock is sick and living in London

I don't mean that literally of course. London has become the same cesspool of talentless and inane pop stars and assorted celebriti that New York or L.A. has been for years. Sort of the Americanization of London. Anyway, the subject line refers to an article published in Rolling Stone in 1977 about the Sex Pistols and the early punk movement. The music scene that brought forth nasty English punk isn't too different from the audio wasteland that exists now. Big, bloated dinosaur rock bands, mass produced pop singers, etc. Only this cultural vacuum we're in is inundated with faux anger and pornographic sex and forced angst. Listen to "rock" bands today. Everyone is angry, or sad, or both. Rap rock and whatever daemon "modern" rock has become is the exploitation of two genres that have already been raped of their novelty and value. Rap has been corrupted by money, drugs, alcohol, women, and a general lack of awareness and talent. Rock is a victim of unoriginality, a constant, unchanging mass that has become so irrelevant it cannot figure out what it is or what it wants to be.

So what's the solution? Another punk-type movement is absurd. Punk fed off of the outrage of its critics. Can Americans be outraged anymore? With all of the volume, the tits, the airfucking on MTV? Is there any outrage anymore?

Or is the problem that we have simply lost the ability to produce anything new or relevent?

Rock is sick and on life support.

[CanuckAmok]

24. Good Post, Fenris! n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. lots of good posts here, here's my contrib:

I don't know if we should call it "rock" or "pop". Throughout the 70's rock WAS pop. at least, the more pop stuff was called "soft rock". I think we owe that to the Beatles.
No matter, there is ALWAYS going to be a new band that comes along that has the "new sound" that people are looking for, or at least fills the void that needed to be filled. Some examples that come to mind: The Police, Talking Heads, U-2, REM, and later years we had Red Hot Chili Peppers, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, and Beck.
I don't see a problem.\ other than the over exposure of Rap and all the mindless derivation therein.

[ixion]

13. hey hey, my my

rock and roll will never die! :bounce:

[NightTrain]

15. No!

You need to look a lot harder to find good rock 'n' roll these days, but it's still being created. You're just not going to hear most of it on America's worthless commercial radio stations!

[demnan]

16. I thought it died in the seventies

When I was in college all that was on was disco music so I turned to classical, jazz and bluegrass.

When the late 80's came around there were a few good groups and I started listening again.

I don't know what's up with it now, but I listen to Cafe Rock on the XM satellite radio and they play good stuff. I don't pay as much attention to it as I did when I was younger.

What goes around comes around. It will get good again.

One thing that's for sure, decent rock radio is dead (except for the satellite) and that is a shame.

[mitchum]

18. Dead as being an integral part of youth culture (the kids don't care)

It's really just a mannerist artform, now. Every act refers to something which came before. Every act fits in a neat little sub-genre slot. And the notion that it is modern, up-to-date, and cutting edge is absolutely ridiculous. The semiotics of rock are now as musty as carrying a cane, wearing a straw hat, and singing, "You Look Sweet Upon The Seat Of A Bicycle Built For Two"

[sangh0]

31. My thoughts exactly but

not as well-expressed as your version.

[mac56]

21. Long Live Rock -

Be it dead or alive!

[Journeyman]

34. Who better than The Who. . .

to sing the anthem of rock's demise.

[underpants]

22. How many sorry a** covers do we have to endure?

Some covers are okay but Counting Crows cover of Joni Mitchells song is disgraceful.

Usually troubling times (60's & early 90's) creates some great music but that was in the days before looks and bling bling ruled.

[mac56]

35. Looks and bling-bling have always ruled.

There is nothing new under the sun.

[bbernardini]

23. Try these!

Mike Keneally (www.keneally.com) (Former Zappa and Vai guitarist)
The Samples (www.thesamples.com) (Gave Dave Matthews Band their start)
Porcupine Tree (www.porcupinetree.com) (Opened for Yes last year)
Stuart Davis (www.stuartdavis.com)

These folks all rock in new and fresh ways.

[Brotherjohn]

26. This always comes up. It's really rock in the MAINSTREAM that's dead.

Rock music in the underground has alwaysd been vital and creative. This has never ceased. It is simply that mainstream music has gravitated towards the lowest common denominator (easier to make money). Perhaps it is worse than ever now, but IMHO, the situation has been about the same for the past 20 years or so (ever since early MTV, which was the last major outlet that took any musical risks).

"Mainstream" rock started to stagnate in the early 70s. In the late-60s, labels had less control, FM was new, and local radio pretty much chose what they wanted to play. The edgiest and most creative rock, therefore, WAS the mainstream. The Who, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane... these acts' music from then is still edgier than mainstream bands' music of today.

But despite corprate radio and major label control, "rock music" is hardly dead. Read local or independent zines, go to local clubs... every town worth its' salt has a dozen or so little rock bands, and a few of them might even be really good. A few of them might even be very creative and doing something new. Across the whole country (and world), that makes thousands of edgy, ground-breaking rock bands.

Nah, rock isn't dead. You just have to know where to listen.

[NashVegas]

39. Dead Like Latin is a Dead Language

Nothing new is being added to the canon (did you read about suit involving Flaming Lips "Fight Song?" It's similarity to "Father and Son" means royalties for Cat Stevens), although some people do excellent jobs at regurgitating what they've ingested in colorful ways.

Rock has had a 50 year ride. Enough already.

[paper chase guy]

27. collected some (completely legal) mp3s for anyone who's interested:

http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/the_new_pornographers/new_pornographers_laws.mp3
http://www.hammeringinmyhead.com/sr/staralfur.mp3
http://www.brainwashed.com/common/sounds/mp3/godspeed_you_black_emperor-moya.mp3
http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/interpol/nyc.mp3

what the hell, thought i might as well toss these links out there.

[vi5]

29. No, just as the Beatles and the Who were just more popular...

while tons of other rock bands toiled in obscurity so too is it now.

If you only get your music from mainstream media and radio rather than actually seeking out unsigned or lesser known bands then yeah it's dead. But just as the "classic rock" bands were not necessarily the best just the most popular the same thing goes for music today.

[wyldwolf]

30. Finally another voice of reason...

... the music biz has always been as it is now. Mass appeal.

We look back with fondness at the music of our youth but don't seem to remember there was bubblegum then, too.

[Redbear]

45. Exactly.

The Big Sellers in the 70s were the Bee Gees , KC, Janis Ian, Phoebe Snow, Gerry Rafferty, Donny Osmond, David Cassidy. Not exactly rockers

In the 80s it was Michael Jackson, Toto, Rick Springfield, Journey and Madonna

The 90s was Wilson Phillips, Whitney Houston, Hootie and the Blowfish

Corporate music has always been lame.

[mac56]

46. Go back further to the '60s.

Besides the Beatles, the biggest record seller was Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass. They even outsold the Beatles some years.

[HEyHEY]

36. Turn it on a radio station that plays modern rock

And ask me that with a straight face.....


IT FUCKING DEAD!!!!!! ;-)

[Wickerman]

37. I think its jsut a matter of getting older and more discriminating

Plus, it doesn't help that they play little rock on the radio. As other posters said, you have to look forr it. In the 80's, when I wanted something that was different than the radio I had to subscribe to the few fanzines and alternative media I could find to get information about the music I wanted in my far-flung out of the way home town.

There is still great rock n roll out there, it just takes more work to sift through all the dreck to get to it. Sadly, our media and record company execs do little to help in that search and just deliver what the marketers tell them should appeal to the masses. Problem there is that we have relied on the marketers so long that we have prefab groups and artists that are developed on prefab expectations, that are based on marketing estimations. Nothing is real any more in the land of popular music.

[RandomKoolzip]

38. It depends on your definition of "rock."

According to rock scholar Joe Carducci, in his book "Rock and the Pop Narcotic," Rock music is a PLAYED music, in a small band format, utilizing guitars, bass, and drums, played expressively together, with a a flexible, non-static rythym section. Just because something is played by guitars, bass and drums does not necessarily make it Rock music. Captain Beefheart, for instance (I love hima nd have all his albums, so this isn't a dis), is not rock, nor is MAtchbox Twenty or Creed, but for different reasons, namely, the band is a mere hack prop for a charismatic "pop" frontman.

The trouble with Rock is that it has always been a player's form, and therefore only crosses territory with the pop mainstream in special cases, like the late sixties and early ninties, when the rock process dominates the sound of the pop marketplace. Record companies are loathe to push the Rock process because it is labor- and luchre- intensive; rock musicians must know how to play with each other, which requires years of practice, training, touring, and the investment of money in equipment and practice space. Hip-hop and dance musics do not require this investment of time and money, and therefore receive more attention from the record industry; why spend all that energy in producing a music whose production costs often eclipse its profit potential? You only need a producer and some machines to make hip-hop or pop musics, so it's cheap to make and promote, and the end product always ends up sounding slick and impeccably clean, unlike real rock, which is inexact, rough, and often raw-sounding. Alas, the "rock" music one hears in the marktplace mainstream is streamlined, chopped and (clear) channelled in order to compete with just such pop product. The cool merchants and owners of record companies do not believe sensitive listeners will not sit by and listen to rock as it sounds in its un-proceessed, pure form. Nowadays, rock exists, but it exists as an undergound genre, like it was in the mid-eighties (when the SST bands built the groundwork for the early nineties rock invasion of the mainstream). It is a fallow period, and nothing to be especially alarmed about. People will always come around to a more sincere, REAl form once they are bored of all that synthetic pop shit (Radiohead, Bjork, all dance musics, any music produce with computers and turntables instead of instruments).

When one hears complaints that rock is dead, it's not exciting anymore, blah blah blah, one is hearing the spilt milk and sour grapes of those too lazy or "sophisticated" to get one's hands dirty investigating the very alive local band scenes or underground rock realms.

Now, here's where I run into trouble: a lot of people NEVER accepted punk rock as a viable form. Judging by above posters bemoaning the lack of a Zep, a Beatles, etc. for the new age, well, I doubt these same people would be open to the sounds of the bands I will describe later.However, the worlds of punk and classic rock have merged permanently, for bad and good. I admit, the harmonic climate and instrumental timbre of the greats of the late sixties/ early seventies were fantastic and genre-defining, and for the most part, the melodic drive of most rock fom the late seventies on sounds to my ear more European- derived than blues- or folk- derived. These are just givens by now though. Here's a very partial list of fantastic groups who have released material in the last few years:

Karate
Guided by Voices
Mother Superior
Jawbox
Soul- Junk
The Fucking Champs
Ben Folds Five (the only rock use of a lead piano since Little Richard)
High Rise
White Heaven
Bettie Serveert
The Wrens
Lotion
Hot Snakes
Cobra Verde
The Dismemberment Plan

Now, those are just the ones I can rell off the top of my head. Granted, you're not gonna hear a I-IV-V progression or extended blues guitar soloing, but you will hear rich, varied, vibrant rock music. Go nuts!

[Bake]

42. Keep on sliding into bluegrass

And check out The Del McCoury Band for some stuff that will knock your socks off! The "Manzanita" album by Tony Rice (no banjo, and although it was recorded 20 years ago it's still fresh). Anything by J.D. Crowe and the New South. Old stuff by New Grass Revival (hang on to your hat; these guys were playing rock & roll on bluegrass instruments!). I could go on and on.

As for real country, let me know if you find any.

Bake

[dawg]

47. I'm enjoying my new Radiohead CD ...

Does that count?

[nyrnyr1994]

48. Intriguing

Now I must admit I don't know much about bands outside of the mainstream but I'm going to check out the names that some here have listed. If anyone else has any more suggestions in mind please do.

Off topic, since most of us are probably inside, if youre in the northeast area of the country, the weather is absolutely gorgeous today. The matrix did a good job programming it today :tinfoilhat:. I think I'm going to go out for a walk, could use the air.

[catzies]

49. Well, The Strokes' new album comes out Oct. 21! "Room On fire!"

Yeah I know bash away but that doesn't mean I'm not going to buy it and wear it out playing it. Just like their first one.