Why Is It So Hard To Find Women That Seem Human?

[SaveABug]

My god. They all seem to have minds that automatically are set to smack the guys around.

I see it. I live it.

[dorktv]

1. Have you spent time with most males? There is a reason

we sometimes act like that.

[SweetZombieJesus]

4. What a bullshit cop-out

Maybe if women would stop going for IDIOTS and relegating good guys like us to the damn friend zone, they wouldn't get to use those same assholes as an excuse for their abusive behavior.

I really get sick of being the fucking whipping boy for my entire gender, when I've never been anything but a god damn saint to the women I've dated.

[roughsatori]

6. Strange you don't talk like a Saint

I hope you don't kiss your mom with that filthy mouth. :evilgrin:

[SweetZombieJesus]

7. Well, I'm a vulgarian, but a nice one

Seriously, I've always treated girls I've dated like queens, and all I get in return is a bunch of crap about how they can't trust me because some guy in high school screwed them up. Well women like that screwed me up in high school, and I got over it.

[SOteric]

8. Dude,

*koff* -You really don't sound 'over it.'

[SweetZombieJesus]

12. The last one really bugged me

Had she not been batshit crazy, she would have been perfect. First she said she was breaking up with me because I quit school (which was bullshit, and she admitted as much in her letter to me), then left me a letter to take her back. I did, and she flaked out on me again.

She was the first girl who I actually believed really liked me, and she dumped me not once, but twice. And the second time she didn't even have the decency to actually dump me, she just stopped returning my calls all of a sudden.

So yeah, I got over the girls who hurt me in high school, and I don't let those past experiences keep me from dealing with good relationships now. But Jessica, my latest ex, couldn't deal with someone actually treating her good, and she freaked out.

[SOteric]

17. I'm sorry you've had such a difficult time

and plainly you've still got a lot of hurt left to heal from.

But I've got to say, this broad generalising that you and SaveABug are doing with regard to "all women" is not in any way different in substance than the types of rationalising of which you complain.

It's a delicious piece of irony to complain that women treat you like all the men who dumped on them in the past while you dump on all women for some mythical universal wrong.

Some men are really great human beings. I've never dumped on a guy the way y'all seem to imply. Some women are really great human beings, too. The trick is in getting the best sorts of both kitted up with one another (with due respect to our gay and lesbian friends), and ever it has been thus for tens of centuries.

[SweetZombieJesus]

18. Oh, I didn't say all women, just apparently all Nebraskan women

I have to have faith that once I get out of this backwards ass state I'll find some women worth dating, but as long as I'm here, I won't get my hopes up.

Though I am in love with my friend Rachel, nothing will come of that, since she doesn't see me that way, and finally, I don't need my love for her to be requited. I just love her for being her.

So it's not all women, just the lunatics I seem to end up dating.

[SOteric]

19. Maybe

you need a better "screening" technique.

[SweetZombieJesus]

21. The problem is, they start out just fine

Then, usually about three weeks in, they turn into a completely different person. Secretive, standoffish, distant...it's like dating a fucking secret agent. Then I spend the rest of my time waiting for the other shoe to drop.

For instance: With Jessica, she felt like we were spending too much time together, so I said "Ok, that's cool" and we saw each other less. Then I told her I quit school and she turned it around into some bullshit about it being about her or it being some "ploy" to make her pay more attention to me. I mean, how self-centered can you be? I'd told her since the day we started talking that school stressed me out to the point where I felt like there was no reason to go anymore, and that I was considering quitting. Then she goes off on some rant about how she can't see herself with a man without a degree, which she later admitted was just bullshit projection on her part because she got scared that we were so close so fast. Then I take her back, and everything's fine for about two weeks, and bam, no calls, no explanations, no nothing. And the saddest thing? She was the first girl I've ever dated that I actually really believed wasn't going to flake out on me, and who I really, really liked.

[SOteric]

23. Soooo.....

Maybe you need to date for at least 3 weeks before you let yourself get emotionally involved.

Just a suggestion.

I'm not saying it's your fault, sweetie. I'm just saying there's something we can learn, something we can take away from every relationship - especially the ones that go horribly, horribly wrong.

[5thGenDemocrat]

69. First, let me take the easy one

Save a Bug: Think about your statement "Women who seem human." Women ARE human. That means they have the same pissinesses, manias and other less-than-charming foibles as men do. It's as bad to be looking for someone who merely "seems human" as it is to place that same someone on a pedestal.
BIG PROMINENT DISCLAIMER RIGHT UP FRONT: Personally, I've been married and divorced twice and been involved in, honestly, probably a hundred relationships of, say, three weeks or longer (no Don Juan here -- I'm 47 in October). I've seen nutbags, drunks, drug addicts, psychopaths, lunatics, droolers, abusers and any and all other types of mental and emotional basket cases. Worse, I've also been all these things myself at one time or another.
I've also been involved in emotionally and physically satisfying relationships that just fade out. Sometimes you don't want to get tied down. Sometimes you do. Same goes for the gal because, after all, she's only human.
Relax. It ain't you and it ain't her. Sometime it is just what it is.
Now, more specifically, I read your post, SZJ, and what I'm hearing is not what Jessica is as much as it is your projecting what you think Jessica is. You say she was "secretive, standoffish (and) distant" and that she thought you two were spending too much time together.
Hell, man, does she need to paint a picture for you? She didn't want to get tied down (or, more precisely, she didn't want to get tied down to you). It's bad for you that you don't feel the same way, but there it is.
You said you "(took) her back." Aside from the patronizing, macho tone, apparently you did no such thing. You gotta stop being Alley Oop about interpersonal relationships because (nasty secret but true) women are smarter than we are and will outflank our asses every single time. Learn this simple truth, work on personal and emotional honesty (chicks dig bruised guys), and next time a woman stops talking to you, understand why and don't stick around for the ass-kicking.
You say she was ranting, but you're also saying that school "stressed (you) out" and you were considering quitting. Well, again, you're stressed...she's stressed...this is an unhappy situation all the way around. If she can't live without a man with a degree and you don't want to get a degree, then the situation is additionally fucked.
But don't blame her and, really, don't blame yourself. The truest thing you said in the above post was also the saddest thing: "She was the first girl I've ever dated that I actually really believed wasn't going to flake out on me, and who I really, really liked."
So true (my first was named Barb and I have no idea where she is today). But there will be more. Lots more -- you're really an engaging guy when you want to be (and I'm saying that from 1000 miles away and from only "knowing" you through the internet). Keep the chin up, for God's sake BE YOURSELF instead of someone you think the next gal wants you to be and, most important, don't stew in your own juices.
John
It's a big world out there with lots of cool, interesting people. About 52 percent of them are women. Learn from this and become the best Sweet Zombie you can be. And feel free to tell me I'm an asshole if you want to -- it wouldn't be the first time from either gender.

[SweetZombieJesus]

77. Ok, let me clarify a few things

She dumped me, citing quitting school as the reason. I accepted it, and decided to move on. Two weeks later, I find a letter on my windshield from her, telling me that everything she had said was just b.s. rationalizations for her to break up with me because she was scared and she had relationship issues, and that she wanted me back, if I could forgive her. I had misgivings at first, because she stung me the first time, but I decided that I liked her enough to give it another shot. So we get back together, things are, from my perspective (i.e. not a mindreader) fine, and then when I come back from a weekend visiting friends, its like she was spirited away by the Gestapo. The only reason I knew she was still around was because she returned two of my movies after I'd finally given up on trying to get her to talk to me and tell me why, and settled on asking for my movies back. Not a word was spoken by either of us, no goodbyes, just handing me the bag with the movies in them, and I haven't seen her since.

As for assigning blame: Prior to Jessica, I've always analyzed the deaths of these relationships to death to find out what I did wrong, and this time I realized that I had nothing to beat myself up about. I tried to make it work, I backed off when she said she thought things were going too fast, and it still wasn't enough for her. So I don't blame myself for that failure, that one's on her. But it's still disappointing nonetheless, because when it was good, it was really, really good.

[SweetZombieJesus]

78. Ok, let me clarify a few things

She dumped me, citing quitting school as the reason. I accepted it, and decided to move on. Two weeks later, I find a letter on my windshield from her, telling me that everything she had said was just b.s. rationalizations for her to break up with me because she was scared and she had relationship issues, and that she wanted me back, if I could forgive her. I had misgivings at first, because she stung me the first time, but I decided that I liked her enough to give it another shot. So we get back together, things are, from my perspective (i.e. not a mindreader) fine, and then when I come back from a weekend visiting friends, its like she was spirited away by the Gestapo. The only reason I knew she was still around was because she returned two of my movies after I'd finally given up on trying to get her to talk to me and tell me why, and settled on asking for my movies back. Not a word was spoken by either of us, no goodbyes, just handing me the bag with the movies in them, and I haven't seen her since.

As for assigning blame: Prior to Jessica, I've always analyzed the deaths of these relationships to death to find out what I did wrong, and this time I realized that I had nothing to beat myself up about. I tried to make it work, I backed off when she said she thought things were going too fast, and it still wasn't enough for her. So I don't blame myself for that failure, that one's on her. But it's still disappointing nonetheless, because when it was good, it was really, really good.

[5thGenDemocrat]

86. You should have gone with your first instinct

That "misgivings at first" part? That's three billion years of evolution talking to you.
I understand the "really, really good" part -- my friend Mike B has always said "You can't beat having it the way you want it." You got part of it the way you wanted it and the next time (or the time after that or the time after that) it'll be better.
Hey -- if it IS her "fault," then you've really lost nothing and gained some valuable insight.
John
My advice (not that you asked)? Get another gal you like to come over and watch those movies. Oh, and YOU make the popcorn.

[Cheswick2.0]

112. If you are having the same problem with woman after woman

the problem is not with them.

[populistmom]

47. I have 4 cute, very smart cousins there

Seriously, but there all taken. One is a senior at Nebraska Wesleyan, another a Freshman at UNL and another who just graduated from Hastings College but is now working on her masters in Arizona. The remaining one is only in high school.
However, the environment there is stiffling. I grew up in Omaha, but spent Summers at my grandparent's farm ust outside Grand Island. I've lived in CT for 16 years (I'm 31) and very rarely do I ever have much desire to go back there.

(grammer error)

[SweetZombieJesus]

57. The good ones are ALWAYS taken

Usually by some vacuous ninny who looks like he just stepped out of a fucking GAP ad ;-P

[sendero]

101. never ever....

... take back a woman who has dumped you. If she wasn't sure then she won't be sure now. Sometimes free advice is really good :)

[roughsatori]

11. By "Queens" do you mean gay men?

that could be your problem. :P

[LWolf]

88. Interesting.

There's always at least 2 sides in the gender wars.

I don't hate or blame men for anything; they are not a whipping boy, even though the men I've been related to, from my father through 2 husbands and 20 years or so of marriage, have never been safe or trustworthy. I never would have married the second time if I hadn't been convinced he was a nice guy; a lifelong friend. And, in the end, a cheat. And a lifelong friendship gone with the marriage.

I get along well with men platonically, and have men friends. Interestingly, most of my male friends are gay. Go figure.

Meanwhile, I'm middle aged and not trying to be anything other than I am. Good, saintly guys aren't exactly beating the door down.

[sendero]

103. I don't blame women either....

.... but it took me 20 years to understand that they are operating on a subcouscious level just like I am and that certain things that *rationally* should appeal to them simply do not.

Especially in the first months of a relationship, or in trying to establish one, a "nice guy" doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of creating interest in a woman.

Just my opinion based on years of observation and painful experience :)

[Cheswick2.0]

111. exuse me, but why are you picking women that treat you that way?

Does it have something to do with looks? Go find a girl that is
1)nice
2)someone you have something in common with
3)not a barbie

[cherryperry]

2. As the late Rosemary Clooney sang:

Come-on-a my house
my house, uh huh

You've been hangin' with the wrong females!

:hi:


:kick:

[FreakinDJ]

3. Nice girls hang out here

I met my wife on the internet and she is all that and a bag of chips. I only had to travel 7000 miles out of the US to meet her in person.

[Bossy Monkey]

5. You don't think you might be looking in the wrong places?

I met my beloved in a writers' group. You should probably identify what your main interests are, join groups that focus on those interests, and don't worry about it too much. For example, I hear there's a fairly important presidential election happening about a year hence; maybe volunteer for a candidate or at party HQ. Just my 2 cents.

[ProudGerman]

10. Great advice

You can meet a woman you absolutely click with. Find out that you have tons in common, and absolutely enjoy spending time together.






Then you'll find out that she doesn't want to talk anynore, and the reason will be because she really likes you alot. Then you got tons of free time all of a sudden, and that means the woman who dumped you without so much as a real explanation won't stop talking to you.....even though she has a new boyfriend. Claims to have no feelings for you after 4 years together, but won't stop with the neverending minutea of her life or trying to discuss her problems. And it won't stop, no matter the level if disinterest you show, or how many times you say, ya know, you dumped me, why are we talking so much?

[NightTrain]

9. I feel sorry for you

Thankfully, the women with whom I work, and those with whom I'm friends, don't posses a misandrist streak. Or if they do, they certainly don't let it run rampant!

And to be fair, given that way too many guys are complete assholes toward women, I can't blame some members of the fairer sex for having developed feelings of distrust toward men.

Unfortunately, I have similar feelings toward women when it comes to anything beyond friendship. Guess I've had my heart broken one time too many! :-(

[Ladyhawk]

13. I swear I'd go for a nice guy over some macho asshole in a heartbeat.

But it's a small town and anyone who is nice and shares my interests is already married.

And I'm sorry. The sexual molestation I went through at age 8 has affected my dating life. It isn't any current guy's fault, but it is an issue.

[NightTrain]

16. I don't suppose you live anywhere near Connecticut?

Hey, it never hurts to ask! :yourock:

[Skittles]

14. I want to smack the guys around

and I am very much human

[WilliamPitt]

15. In the words of an excellent ESPN columnist named Bill Simmons

...also known as the Sports Guy, "Women ruin everything."

Look at Rocky's wife in Rocky III: "You can't win!"

Says it all.

Women are an incredible mix of intelligence and wit and soul and splendor and viciousness and contradiction and insanity that no algorithm, no proof, no program, no ruler can measure or quantify. They exist to make men insane, to draw them in and break them while they simultaneously lift them up to heights beyond imagination. That contradiction is the source key, the answer. Men cannot live without women (unless they are gay, and God bless 'em, for they are truly free, and only have to cope with the simpler algrorithm of male insanity). Men also cannot live with women unless they subjugate themselves to that female passive-agressive dominance that leads men to buy curtains and drive safely and avoid beer and football.

The rewards for such slavery are sublime. But it is slavery. Make no mistake.

[Susang]

20. That is foul and wrong

I'm calling bullshit on you Will Pitt.

I sincerely hope that you were being facetious, because if you weren't then I feel very sorry for you and whomever you may be with.

Rocky's wife, indeed! Her name was ADRIAN.

[WilliamPitt]

22. I am being mostly facetious

Mostly.

Ma'am, if you had the incredible misfortune to have lived the last four months of my life, you'd forgive me my margin of bitterness. I was supposed to have bewen married at this point, and was thrilled beyond words about the event.

I am not married, and it wasn't my fault. At all. Draw your own conclusions, and please, please, tread lightly.

[Susang]

24. I'm no Ma'am and I tread where I will

Trust me, I've had my share of romantic misfortunes. Yet you will never see me smear the entire male half of the species because of one individual who hurt me, no matter how deeply or how recent.

Try to remember that your experiences are not necessarily the world's, and that women are human beings; amazing, fascinating, flawed and unique. Just like men. To generalize like that cheapens both sexes.

BTW, my life in the last 4 months hasn't been a picnic. I've been diagnosed with several medical conditions that will require life long treatment, I've lost my job and my marriage has been sorely tested. As far as I can tell, you're healthy and have an excellent career. Perhaps the bitterness is a little premature?

[WilliamPitt]

75. Perhaps

Thanks for the perspective slap. I needed it.

[Susang]

98. I didn't mean to be harsh

Lord knows I understand how relationship troubles can color everything else in your life. Hell, the reason I lost my job was because the toxic interpersonal relationships and intercompany politics were making me sicker than I already was. I'm not in any way trying to minimize your pain.

It just seems that you've got a lot going on in your life right now that's really positive and the bitterness in your post just didn't seem like what I'm used to reading from you.

[WilliamPitt]

113. Probably because

I don't post about relationships. Bile tends to jam up my keyboard.

[fla nocount]

25. Friend, you're right, they are different, make no mistake.

All we can do in defense is adjust our approach and our stance. Demand to be met half-way. It took me fifty years to learn this lesson but it seems to be working. I don't know that the "gentler" sex wants to be appreciated as much as they want to be respected. We are the ones who wish to be appreciated. Just my take on the issue. Oh well, bed time for the unemployed.

[SOteric]

27. I am sorry for your misfortunes, Will

I have had my share of pain in life, too.

I have every confidence you'll one day outgrow the sting of it and your bitterness. You're a bright young man.

Meanwhile, it's the abject right of everyone who's ever suffered such a fate to wallow in it a bit.

[supernova]

89. So sorry Will

about your engagement. The loss of anticipation of something beautiful is just as traumatic as something bad happening without warning.

But it's better to find out before the wedding than to wait 9 years and then decide the relationship isn't right. That's what I did. :eyes: I did learn to forgive myself eventually for taking so long to figure out what was so horribly wrong...emotional and financial abuse. Divorce is a necessary bitch.

Though I HATED my ex for a good long while, years actually, I don't hate men in general. I've become aware enough to know it's my judgement that's flawed about who is and isn't appropriate to be in relationship with. I still struggle with that.

I see men as individuals, travelling this life journey same as me. Perhaps one day, I can find someone who is travelling the same direction as me. He will be kind and patient. In the meantime, I can build my own campfire.

SZJ, please don't think that after 3 weeks you really know someone and are ready to settle down with them. I would absolutely freak if someone wanted to be that serious that quickly with me... and I'm 41! Patience really is a virtue.

[Cheswick2.0]

114. I am sorry to hear that Will

It hurts now, but someday you will find someone you ARE supposed to be with.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. And my observation over the years has been that

there is a certain subset of males, who, given the choice between an insincere bitch who looks and acts like the seductive women in the movies and an ordinary-looking (not ugly, just ordinary) woman who would never dream of leading on anyone she didn't care about, will choose the insincere bitch every time.

The female counterpart to that mindset is choosing the rakish bad boy types who invariably end up being unfaithful and/or abusive.

If you're at all decent, there's probably some young lady who is smitten with you, but who doesn't have the slick manipulative skills needed to attract your attention. She watches in frustration as you select one bitch after another.

But you don't give her the time of day because she's not a stereotypical "hottie" and because she doesn't approach you with insincere flattery and flirtation.

Why do I know this? Because I lived in a women's dorm all through college and had 17 roommates, 14 of them female, during my long graduate school career. In all of these living situations, the often deliberately cruel bitches never lacked for male attention. I actually had one roommate who automatically flirted intensively with any male she met (and she was good at it--hysterically funny sometimes), whether she liked him or not. I actually saw her flirting seductively with one guy, only to turn to me and say, "God, he was such a loser" when he left.

The male who chooses the bitch and the female who chooses the bad boy are mirror images of each other, and both are overly influenced by the media, where everyone has a beautiful, well-dressed lover who spouts suggestive one-liners through sensuous lips.

That's not real life. The sooner you come down to earth and learn to appreciate the qualities that are NOT touted in the media, the sooner you'll find a satisfying relationsihp.

Speaking as a woman whose tastes in men have evolved over the years, I've learned to separate pure physical attraction (which can be AWFULLY powerful, even at my age) from the qualities that will make a relationship work.

Sure, you have to have some physical attraction, but you can't spend all your time in bed, and any relationship that lasts more than a couple of weeks is going to arrive at the point where shared values, kindness, being on the same mental wavelength, dependability, generosity, and the ability to weather rough spots without having a tantrum or melting down are much more important.

By the way, has Rachel actually told you that she doesn't like you "that" way, or are you just assuming?

When I was at my "longing for bad boys" stage, I actually turned down some guys who would have been much better for me. Maybe you are doing something similar.

[SOteric]

28. You speak wisely, Lydia

I've noted that same 'mirror-image' phenomena.

[SweetZombieJesus]

29. Trust me, I got over the "hot" bitches in high school

Now I date women who, in a better world, would have been perfectly sane individuals, if not for the presence of men in high school who were basically self esteem vampires, leaving empty shells of women who expect me to fill them back to their original self-confident state, so they can leave me for another vampire, etc etc ad infinitum.

I am not a shallow person lookswise. Intelligence wise, maybe, but I have turned down women who, according to the general male consensus, were "hot" because I couldn't carry on a decent conversation with them. But then I end up dating a girl who, while she might not be conventionally "hot", is attractive, and my type. It just turns out my type is "emotionally scarred passive aggressive flake who will rip your heart out and cut it into thin strips for papier mache".

I'm just really sick of being every woman's scapegoat for all the men who came before me and treated her like shit. It's one of the reasons I really empathize with Satan.

As for Rachel: Yeah, she's said that she doesn't see me like that, but I tell her I love her anyway, because I do, and she says it back, even though I know she doesn't. It's a fucked up little game we play, but I have no compunctions about it. Five years ago, I would have been pining away for her, trying to construct some grand monologue in my head to win her heart. Now I'm just content to tell her I love her, snuggle with her on my couch from time to time, and go no further. She knows if she ever decided she wanted to be more than friends, I'd be more than happy with that, but I'm content with where we are now too.

[ForrestGump]

35. Yes, you DO speak wisely....

Even in my maleness I can see the immutable truth of what you say. No surprise, really, because the idea's universal and just waiting to be picked up - typically by the walking wounded who've learned it through experience, but also by those more 'sensitive' to such things who, still, all too often perversely need to ground-truth it with painful experience.




but you can't spend all your time in bed...

Damn...... :-(

[Iverson]

102. I hope SaveABug sees your reply.

It was thoughtful and offered some good perspective.

[prolesunited]

30. Wow!

So much bitterness and hostility in this thread. What I find interesting, though, is we never heard from the thread's author again. :shrug:

[Susang]

32. Hey girl!

Yeah, there's a lot of bitterness here. Kinda depressing, isn't it? Funny though, I was just wondering what happened to Saveabug myself. :-)

[prolesunited]

51. I guess that's why I've

learned to embrace my singleness — not bitter, just a quiet resolve.

Here's a :hug: for you. Hope things get better.

[Susang]

53. Hell, things are already better

Who knew leaving a job could be so health beneficial? I'm still pretty tired most of the time, but at least I'm not dead on my feet like I used to be. :-) Plus, my doc just changed my thyroid medication to the natural stuff and I'm really sensing a difference. Now I just have to find a new job.....

[noiretextatique]

60. flamebait

no wonder the author is scarce. "seem human"...makes me question which species he belongs to :puke:

[Zorba607]

31. get out of nebraska

start over. Leave it behind. It's a big fucking world. It not the women where you live, it's the way you live where you are.
I am the stoned zen master

[SweetZombieJesus]

37. You know, I know people are trying to help, but it's not that god damn

simple. If it were, I'd be passed out in a bar in Austin right now instead of laying on my couch, coughing up a lung, and posting bitter diatribes about the crazy women who've made me the cynical jag-off I am today.

First of all, I don't make enough money to save up money to get the fuck out of this state. I barely have enough to pay my bills. Secondly, I can't move out of this state in a year like I'd planned, because my dad just died, and I can't leave my mom and my brother thousands of miles away. I'm more concerned with living through this darkness right now before I can go to the promised land.

And if Bush gets reelected in 04, neither I nor the country will be in any kind of economic shape for me to be able to move to Austin anyway, or any other real state for that matter. The fact of the matter is, I'm stuck in this shithouse state for at least two more years, working at a convenience store, single, relatively friendless, and more or less broke. How I'm not a meth addict like the rest of my miscreant friends, I'll never know.

[Susang]

43. I'm confused

I thought Saveabug was the author of this thread. Did I miss something?

You won't ever find a woman you connect with if you consider all women to be crazy, evil, manipulative, etc.. You've got to have a little hope in the human race if you want to get together with someone worthwhile.

[SweetZombieJesus]

54. I don't think that at all.

And yeah, Saveabug is the author. I think whoever I was responding to got mixed up.

Somewhere along the line I threadjacked unintentionally, lol.

Anyway, I don't think all women are crazy evil or manipulative. In fact, I try to go into every relationship with as much faith as possible. The problem is, that faith is returned each and every time with the same results: I get my teeth kicked in. I don't fault the whole female gender for that, far from it. I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of great, compassionate women out there, they just don't live in Kearney, Nebraska, and they aren't my age. Most of the women I know my age are all MTV-addled emotional cripples who's highest ambition in life is to be featured on a reality TV show. My standards are far too high for the geographic area in which I live, I guess.

[Susang]

59. You're pretty young, right?

I seem to remember you saying you were in you're early 20s (though I could be wrong). Unfortunately, bad relationships come with the territory at that age, male or female. I got married at 31 and I consider him the only mature relationship I have ever had. This comes with the understanding that we both agree to work on our issues and problems rather than quit or blame the other.

No relationship is perfect, even though many people believe the Hollywood lie. They're hard fucking work and you have to be prepared for the reality. Most people come with baggage. It's how you both deal with the baggage that makes all the difference.

[SweetZombieJesus]

65. I'm 23

And I know it's not all idyllic, all I want is just once to find a girl who doesn't quit at the first sign of adversity. I just want someone who won't throw in the towel at the drop of a hat. Is that too much to ask?

[Susang]

99. Not at all

But it is too much to expect so much after only three weeks. That's a really short time in the scheme of things. I'd suggest you take it a little slower next time, get to really know the person you're dating before you pin all of your hopes on her.

[radwriter0555]

100. When attempting to find a mate, the package is critical. When you're

shopping for food, do you pick up the smashed, open box of Mac n Cheese, or do you pick the one that's shiny and new with a longer expiration date?

When you're buying apples, do you pick the one with the spots all over it, or the shiny, red fresh one?

Consider the package you're 'selling'. The only people who pick the less desirable apples are often less desirable themselves. I'm sure you'll lash out and get all defensive, and I hope you don't, but you have to take some responsibility for the relationships you're involved in, and in the person you're presenting as well. If you want to find a nice, normal, stable, reliable girl, YOU have to be nice, normal, reliable and stable. I find it interesting you claim to have friend that are meth heads. If that's the company you're keeping, those who you call friends, then I might assume you're attempting to pick and choose female mates from among the same types of people? Your chances of finding a decent mate among that type of folks is rather slim.

Could be part of the problem. I beleive you need to spend some time with yourself, and do some self exploration before investing time in relationships. You've been through a LOT lately, and sadly, no one is going to come along and rescue you, or make you feel better. People just aren't like that. This is stuff you gotta work through on your own... but luckily, you've got friends here.

Huge hugs.

[Cheswick2.0]

116. Someone needs to sit you down for a long talk

Why are you blaming "women" for the choices you make?

First of all, if you don't have a plan to start a business and you aren't working for a plumber or other trade specialist who will train you....WHY THE HELL DID YOU DROP OUT OF COLLEGE? There is not magic career fairy waiting to bop you on the head and give you a great job just right for someone with a HS diploma.

You want a good woman in your life, let me tell you there are very few who are interested in guys who are uneducated and have no direction. It would be different if you were a starving musician or artist with an incredidble amount of talent and promise. In that case there would be a smal group of women interested in you....but you would have to have drive too and from what I am reading you are a defeatist at this point. Stop it, stop making excuses.

Stop being bitter and angry about the women who have hurt you. All women in NE are not like that. Only the ones you like are "like that". Like someone said, you need a new picker, the one you have is busted. But you must also consider that your problems are yours. Maybe you are getting too attached too quick? Maybe you should make yourself whole and then worry about finding a girlfriend?

As I tell my sons, there is nothing wrong with masterbation. But instead you kids jump into bed with someone you barely know and expect instant relationship, and all this fake intimacy just because you are having sex.


I know you have had a rough time with your dad dying etc... I don't mean to be cruel, but you need some major tough love.

[SweetZombieJesus]

38. You know, I know people are trying to help, but it's not that god damn

simple. If it were, I'd be passed out in a bar in Austin right now instead of laying on my couch, coughing up a lung, and posting bitter diatribes about the crazy women who've made me the cynical jag-off I am today.

First of all, I don't make enough money to save up money to get the fuck out of this state. I barely have enough to pay my bills. Secondly, I can't move out of this state in a year like I'd planned, because my dad just died, and I can't leave my mom and my brother thousands of miles away. I'm more concerned with living through this darkness right now before I can go to the promised land.

And if Bush gets reelected in 04, neither I nor the country will be in any kind of economic shape for me to be able to move to Austin anyway, or any other real state for that matter. The fact of the matter is, I'm stuck in this shithouse state for at least two more years, working at a convenience store, single, relatively friendless, and more or less broke. How I'm not a meth addict like the rest of my miscreant friends, I'll never know.

[SiouxJ]

33. Aww. Poor baby.

"My god." That's what I want. A man who feels sorry for himself so he generalizes about the entire opposite sex (and on a public forum ta boot!). That's just so appealing. Hold me back. I'd say the answer could be found by looking inward. Just a hunch.

[Susang]

34. LOL

Stop, you're killing me. ;-)

[SiouxJ]

36. I'm sorry

didn't mean to kill ya ;-)

I don't mean to be equally hostile to the original poster, but geez! What is going on around here tonight? I guess Shrub standing up last night and lying his ass off is just getting to everyone. :shrug:

:hi:

[Susang]

39. Something's going on

There's too many people crying in their beer. Myself, I'm drinking red wine! :evilgrin:

[SiouxJ]

41. I'd join you but I overdid the martinis on Friday

and it still doesn't sound very good - alcohol that is. But, this too shall pass :-)

[Susang]

46. I'm taking a liquor break

For that exact same reason. For some reason, wine is much more gentle on my system. Puts me in a philosophical frame of mind as well, while at the same time lowering my cholesteral. What more can you ask for?

[SiouxJ]

49. Well put

I love the reds. Never drink the whites.

Geez, it just dawned on me what time it was! !0:30 here- gotta go catch Letterman. I hear he was great tonight. Shredding Shrub! Enjoy your vino!

[Susang]

50. He was great

He made me cry with his tribute to Warren Zevon. Have fun watching! :-)

[SweetZombieJesus]

42. And it's compassionate souls like you who help us maintain our sunny

dispositions.

Yeah, fuck this guy for trying to reach out to other human beings! Let's call him a whiner and tell him it's his fault because it couldn't possibly be the women he's dealing with. It must me his fault, for being a man.

Give me a fucking break.

[SiouxJ]

45. I calls 'em as i sees 'em

and I'm sorry, but I see this as an obvious attempt to get a men vs women flame war going. Gee and what seems to be happening here?

You give me a fucking break.

[SweetZombieJesus]

52. You think it was flamebait?

Unless the original poster has a track record of posting gender flame war baiting material, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that you decided to shit on him on behalf of your gender is very telling of your biases.

Is it really that hard to believe that there are some really evil, manipulative women out there who victimize good, sensitive men just the way some men do the same to good women? Or are we being forced to adhere to the concept that all women are sweetness and light and anything they do wrong is the fault of the male gender as a whole?

I'm not trying to start a flame war with anyone, I just get a little sick of men being expected to "suck it up" when women treat them like shit. It's a shitty double standard, and I refuse to adhere to it.

[SiouxJ]

66. You honestly think he wanted an honest answer

to a question posed in that tone and it wasn't just an attempt to get under our skin and start a flame war? Well, you can believe what you want and I can believe what I want. I have seen this pattern before. Say something that you know will get people arguing back and forth and then sit back and watch the flames. If he really wanted to discuss this and get some "help" he could have phrased it differently. And you are wrong if you think a woman making the same type of generalizations about men wouldn't get the same kind of response. It is not "OK" for either to do. I just think if he wants to "vent" as you put it, he should get together with his buddies and do it there. Posting it in that manner here and then not sticking around to respond (though he might now to save face) gives me great suspicion. Sorry.

[SweetZombieJesus]

73. You may be right

And my knee jerk defensiveness did no one any good. My apologies.

And while the double standard might not be adhered to as much here as it is in mainstream society, you can't deny it exists, and that for guys like me who want nothing more than to meet a nice girl and try to make her happy, it's a source of constant aggravation.

[SiouxJ]

79. I do deny it exists

I see both genders generalizing about the opposite sex, here and in mainstream society. I really don't know where you are getting this idea that it is seen as ok for women to do it but not men. It's not ok for either to do it. You obviously have had some bad experiences and that has influenced you in a negative way. I can guarantee you I have been just as poorly treated by men as you have by women. You just have to find the right one. That old phrase - you have to kiss a lot of toads etc. Sorry, it's just life and it works the same for both men and women. For every sob story a man has, I guarantee you there is a woman with one to match it.

I appreciate your apology and I'm sorry I got sucked in to this too. Didn't mean to attack you, I was probably having a few knee jerk reactions of my own.

[SweetZombieJesus]

84. Watch Oprah sometime. Or Sally Jessy or Montel or any of those shows

These people have built an entire industry subgenre around people making hollow, empty statements like "All men are dogs, honey!" or "Drop that zero and get with a hero!" It's junk food psychology, wherein all men are sex crazed pigs who treat women as objects, and women are all just one notch below angels. Watch Lifetime or listen to any generic female stand-up comedian. According to these women, we're all cro-magnon idiots who wouldn't even bathe themselves if not for the guidance of our obviously intellectually superior "better halves".

I'm not saying you subscribe to this bullshit, far from it, I'm just saying, it's out there, and it's a very big sentiment in mainstream media.

[SiouxJ]

94. No thanks

I don't watch crap TV. Now I think we're on to something. Sorry I didn't reply last night. I went to bed. If you're watching that crap then you are getting the wrong impression of how most women (women that wouldn't be caught dead on a show like that) talk about men. Honestly, the women I know do not sit around talking like that. Don't watch that crap. It'll rot your brain.

Oh and BTW, there is one exception. I encourage you to watch Oprah. True, it used to be just one of those "everybody vent on national TV" shows but it hasn't been in a few years. She changed her format about 5 years ago (or something like that). Now it's all positive. It's mainly about encouraging people to better themselves and help others in the process. Example - just before the war, she did a show on why we probably shouldn't go to war in Iraq. Had experts on trying to convince people what a mess it was gonna end up being etc. It's the only show on your list that I would ever be caught dead watching.

Really, you are getting a false impression of how most women think if you watch that other stuff. Women really do go off about what they love about men A LOT more than they bash them. I swear! The ones I know do. I'm sure the women here at DU would back me up on this. Really, we're not evil and we love men. :-)

[SweetZombieJesus]

107. The women of DU are a completely different species of women than the ones

I know in real life. They're not all insane, I mean, Rachel, for only being 18, is remarkably sane, funny, and fun to be with, not to mention sexy and gorgeous. I can honestly say I love her, but the fact of the matter is she's a very rare breed here in the wilds of Nebraska.

Most other women I meet are emotional cripples who's whole basis for behaving in a relationship is John Hughes movies and soap operas. I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but I can assure you, it's not.

I've come to the conclusion that for the rest of my time in Nebraska, however long that may be, I'm just going to have to deal with being perpetually single.

[SiouxJ]

108. You know what, just stop looking.

Just forget about looking for someone and concentrate on the other things in your life. It always happens when you're not looking. I know it sounds cliché but it's true. If you try too hard it ain't gonna happen. You can't force things. Really, just take a break and enjoy being single for a while and I bet once you do, someone will come along. It happens all the time.

I used to feel the way you do living in the Wingnut town I do. I thought, "none of these men are ever gonna work for me - they are either too conservative, too religious, gun nuts, or all of the above." But eventually, even here, I did manage to meet some men that I could go for. And if you don't find them there, there's the whole fucking Internet! Just don't think about it for awhile and I bet it happens. I'm sending positive vibes your way :-) Good luck!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. That's not what we said, SZJ

In fact, I'd be equally tough on a woman who came to this forum crying about how all men were bastards.

[noiretextatique]

63. he's "reaching out" by claiming half the human species

isn't "human." sorry...this is bullshit.

[JVS]

55. Lay off of SZJ! He's been through a lot of shit lately.

[SweetZombieJesus]

56. I don't want any pity

If SiouxJ wants to flame me, so be it, I certainly don't want someone to spare me the indignity of "hurtful" text just because I've had some personal tragedies as of late. I just don't like the double standard that men can't vent a little about women treating them like crap without someone employing a "walk it off" mentality, while whole cottage industries are built around oversimplified male bashing and character assassination of the male gender as a whole. I mean, I'll be the first to admit that a lot of us are sub-human assholes, but there are a small minority of us that are loving, smart, caring people, who are almost constantly snubbed in favor of the aforementioned primates.

I am geek, hear me roar.

[JVS]

64. Don't mean to offer pity, just sympathy.

And I don't like seeing people get their chops busted when they are down.
I think the double standard really cuts both ways. Without realizing it people embrace stereotypes. Women expect men to be strong, almost godlike, men expect women to be nurturing. What do I think? I think people generally suck ass.

[SweetZombieJesus]

70. It's ok, I know where you were coming from

The gesture is appreciated, but she wasn't really busting my chops, so much as she was busting the original posters, and now that I think about it, there's some validity to it, considering the hit and run tone of the posting.

Buuuut....the fact remains that there are some really fucking inhumane women out there. Take it from a guy who's ex called him from an asylum blaming him for her mental breakdown, I know.

[noiretextatique]

72. geez...

claiming someone isn't "HUMAN," male or female is not evidence of a double standard against men bitching about women. it's claiming someone isn't "HUMAN." i'd find it just as objectionable in the reverse.

[SiouxJ]

58. Uh excuse me?

I was NOT talking to him.

[JVS]

68. Oops. Sorry about that. It's late here, didn't see that it connected ...

somewhere else. Thought it was to post #2. My apologies.

[ott]

40. HAHA! Some of us like being smacked around!

Embrace your deviance. :evilgrin:

[DEM FAN]

44. Hey. It's Hard To Find A Women Period.

:-(

[populistmom]

61. She's out there somewhere

I've always been a big fan of the perpetually "nice" guy. I seemed to have to seek them out because it always seemed like the loud mouthed idiots were attracted to me (unfortunately on occasion, I find they still are). My husband was always one of those sweet guys that was the rebound guy for his female friends. He'd listen to their problems, be there for them and in the end, they'd go back to there sleezy, jerk boyfriends.
Then he got to be friends with this young college girl who moved into his building. She was tired of the way guys her age treated her and was in a different place that most people her age. They had lots in common- books, politics, bizzare family backgrounds. She loved his protectiveness and how he listened. She made her move because he never would have. They had awesome sex and were best friends.
And 13 years later, we still do (when the kids don't interupt us that is) and still are. Life's not perfect and we've been through a lot, but over all, we both pretty happy folks.
Things do work eventually for men who treat women decently. I just don't understand some women. They have a decent man in their life and they throw it away. I always think that those who need it(including myself at times) should get some help for their problems and move on. We all have past shit that hits us at times and hurts us, but don't make the people who care about us and haven't hurt us pay for someone else's mistakes.

[HEyHEY]

62. Cause - all this empowered women stuff...

Not that's it's bad, but it's been marketted and is now actually doing the opposite, and makng women think they are just sex objects and not housewives. I'm not saying they are housewives, I just mena same oppression different method. It's cause women to thinkof themselves only sexually, and hence they rate their worth and the worth of potential partenrs by looks. (So do men..but we never really stopped that)

[prolesunited]

71. Good gawd you're confused about women!

Where the hell did you come up with this theory?

[HEyHEY]

80. I pulled it right out of my ass!!!!

;-)

[prolesunited]

82. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought!

:P

[HEyHEY]

85. hey

I go by what I've seen.

[prolesunited]

87. Housewives or sex objects?

You certainly need to get out more then. How about a single, professional woman who owns her own home who's passionate about politics, reads voraciously, cycles in long-distance events and dreams of being a nature or travel photographer?

So, am I a housewife or a sex object?

[HEyHEY]

95. Yeah but you'd never touch a slob like me

:-)

[populistmom]

76. Now I'm confused

I'm technically a "housewife" since I stay home with my small children without pay, but I like sex. Hmmmm. I guess I'm doubly oppressed? Then again, I don't define myself on only these terms.
Help me understand.

[HEyHEY]

81. well

I just mean, women have always been taught that they have roles to play for men. And right now it's the role of the sexy thing.

[dawg]

109. Don't listen to these guys

You can be both a housewife and a sex object!

:bounce:

[HEyHEY]

83. jeez, am I really lookin' at thekeyboard that much tongiht?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Because we are not

we are from venus. YOu are from mars

[noiretextatique]

74. best answer to this pathetic attempt at flamebait thus far

thanks, nsma :D

[buddhamama]

90. maybe you need a few more smacks

then it will all become clear to you.

[radwriter0555]

91. Then STOP doing stuff that makes us wanna SMACK You around...

dang! You blame US all the time, for reacting to your behavior!

Doormats are located in the flooring section of the store.

;)

[chemenger]

92. That's easy. Women are actually Venusians.

eom.

[Kamika]

93. haha

Yeah remember were from a whole different planet , damn marsian :D

[Misinformed01]

96. I cannot believe that a Jr. High "Why are girls

so mean?" thread got damn near 100 responses from adults.

Amazing.

[JanMichael]

97. Eh? How so?

Don't you think that's just a tad extreme?

I've dated plenty over the years (got married a month ago) and I simply cannot agree that they're all out to get us.

Maybe you need to make new friends? Sounds like the current crop are spinning off nothing but bad feelings.

[MissMillie]

104. It's been my experience that most men aren't looking for someone human...

but rather

a size 3 with EEE cups

a slut you can bring home to mother

someone to do all the work inside and outside the home

give birth to kids but never gain an ounce



Of course, I'm willing to accept that I am a terrible judge of character and that I have had these kind of men in my life because I wasn't smart enough not to let thim into my life in the first place.

[soleft]

105. You need to stop dating women who look like this - duh!

[Ellen Forradalom]

106. Been hanging with Ann Coulter?

You need to make some new friends.

[carolinayellowdog]

110. So do straight guys envy gay guys?

You shouldn't. Everything being said about how game-playing, frustrating, inexplicable, infuriating, etc. etc. "they" are rings just as true when "they" are other guys.

Sex brings out the craziness in people, that's all.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

115. ah it goes both ways.

yes, yes it does.

[pmbryant]

117. Locking

Please don't post sexist, derogatory comments about all members of a particular gender (either one).

We probably should have locked this earlier.

pmbryant
DU Moderator