Are DUers superstitious or anti-science?

[Brucey]

I noticed several remarks about famous people dying in groups of three, and threads about the Myers-Briggs test. Do you think DUers are just as superstitious and anti-science as the general public, more so, or less so? Why? Also, I think I've observed an increased interest in these things and the supernatural when right-wingers are in power. Anyone else notice that?

[goobergunch]

1. I'm not...

but I can't speak for others.

[JohnKleeb]

2. neither am I

go evolution :)

[leftyandproud]

3. what I see...

I see right wingers as 'superstitious' with their religion and the whole christian fundie thing...

lefty superstition involves all the new age BS like astrology...semi-religion based on nature/wicka..the natural 'aura' of everyone...etc etc

freepers make prayer requests and DU'ers make 'karma' requests


same BS...just different varieties

flame away.

[Robb]

4. Not anti-science

But I'm prone to superstitions.

Whenever I fly, I carry a titanium washer from an SR-71 crash site I found.

My thinking is, what're the odds of the same piece of metal crashing from the sky twice? :)

[trof]

26. Reminds me of joke

some comedian did:
"When I fly I always take my own bomb onboard. What are the chances of TWO bombs being on an airplane?"
;-)

[Cheswick2.0]

5. Can't someone both believe in Science and

that science doesn't yet have all the answers or even know what all the questions are? That seems perfectly scientific to me.

[papau]

6. too logical - better to pretend there is no faith involved in science

And no science involved in belief and faith.

By the way did you or anyone see the Dalai Lama bless the new temple for learning in Danvers Ma?

He was here for a conference at MIT to see how the latest knowledge should influence and be incorporated in Buddhist beliefs.

It is interesting how many Christians I meet who are also Buddhists!
There is no conflict. But here at DU we like to pretend there is a conflict. Rather sad.

Oh, well - no matter - today was an interesting day for those of us in the Boston area re this topic!

:-)

:toast:

:-)

peace :-)

[Nikia]

8. As a science major I agree

Science is a process. Science does not have all the answers yet.

[KCDem]

21. agreed.

My husband doesn't believe in anything that isn't already written about in a well-researched book. I believe that there's a first time everything is discovered. There is a lot out there that we can't comprehend based on logic alone.

[soothsayer]

7. As science progresses, physics and metaphysics get closer

So I'd say even those you'd characterize as 'new age' are actually science-friendly.

It's snobby scientists who are unfriendly to us. But they'll come around as they figure out why stuff works---mebbe including astrology and other things that work in practice but not in theory.

Look how long it took scientists to accept vitamins, for example. Science is closed minded and slowwwwwww. Too bad for it.

[lazarus]

9. well

as soon as those things are actually shown to work in practise, maybe.

[TlalocW]

10. My head hurts...

That works in practice but not in theory? If you could prove this then science would have to accept it. Astrology only seems to work because it's so vague. Any of the horoscopes you read can apply to an average person. If a person didn't know what attributes are typically assigned to the different horoscope signs, and you read them a list of attributes telling them that they were for their sign, they would find a way to make the attributes fit them (especially if you just give them the positive attributes).

Scientists aren't "snobby;" they're hard-nosed. GOOD science takes time - observation, hypothesizing, testing, evidence gathering, putting forth a theory, having it peer reviewed, tested to see if the results can be replicated, etc. is not a quick process. However, it doesn't take much time to learn the basic BS about astrology and go around assigning outer worldly explanations to everyday occurences. "Oh, you got a flat tire? You're a capricorn? Well, that figures... Your star is in the International House of Pancakes so something bad was bound to happen to you."

I can point out millions of examples of benefits of GOOD science. I can't think of a single benefit to mankind that has come from astrology other than observing the stars to figure out the future led to the REAL science of astronomy.

TlalocW

[nuxvomica]

11. I don't find astrology very useful but I can't dismiss it out of hand

I don't think the phenomenon you offer as an explanation for it's apparent efficacy has been proven.

[Wonk]

14. Here's a link to a scientific study that debunks it pretty thoroughly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=111&topic_id=4333&mesg_id=4333

[nuxvomica]

16. Interesting study and not in the least bit scientific

I'll post my critique there but as far as "debunking it pretty thoroughly": I don't think so.

[TlalocW]

17. What phenomenon

Are you talking about?

TlalocW

[nuxvomica]

19. The phenomenon of people identifying with vague descriptions

As you describe here:

If a person didn't know what attributes are typically assigned to the different horoscope signs, and you read them a list of attributes telling them that they were for their sign, they would find a way to make the attributes fit them.

A very plausible but not provable explanation. I continue to wonder why people would be using this tool for so many centuries if it had no practical result.

[TlalocW]

22. Because people as a whole

Are superstitious and want to believe things - especially the good things about themselves. There have been practical demonstrations of this effect - go look for James Randi's "Nova" special on "Secrets of the Psychics." He went into a college classroom, handed out a detailed horoscope to everyone that he said was based on their birthdays. Everyone read their horoscope, and he asked them to rate it. Almost everyone rated it at 3 or better (5 being the best) with most people rating it at 4 and 5. The students then handed their horoscopes to the person behind them, and they read them again. The students then discovered that everyone had the same horoscope.

The horoscopes were all filled with very vague statements - not all of them positive, but the positive statements - things like, "You have a great deal of untapped potential" - are things that we ALL know to be true about ourselves. How could they not be? :)

Science and education have done a lot to get rid of a lot of superstitious nonsense and advanced us. We no longer go to Theodoric, Barber of York, to have a leeching done for every medical problem. But the majority of people are not trained in scientific thought or what constitutes a good experiment to see if something is true or not. Why are there so many urban legends out there that are just plain ridiculous? Why does my 71-year-old mother keep sending out spam email in the hopes that Microsoft and Nike will give her a free pair of shoes for every 20 people she sends the email to? Because they WANT to believe.

TlalocW

TlalocW

[soothsayer]

13. The god that an atheist denies never existed

So it goes with science and astrology. Yeah, the goofy astrology you talk about doesn't exist, but I reckon that science---not good science, just regular scoffing skeptical "Oh, harumph, I won't dignify astrology with even bothering to explore it" science (you know, the norm)---can't bring itself to do a serious study on serious astrology.

As I've said, that doesn't matter a whit; it works in practice whether or not science sez why. But of course, science often just cheats by labeling things it doesn't understand (like gravity, cohesion, etc.) to make it look like it understands how everything works.

(Ok, i know science is still trying to figger that stuff out.)

Astrology has never proven science to be anything other than medieval superstition, as they say....!

[lazarus]

27. actually

astrology has never proven anything. It's all anecdotal. Why should science try to figure out "why" if astrologers can't even demonstrate that it does, actually, work?

[Az]

12. Its a mix

There are some hard core science mavens here (raises hand) and there are some true believers. And I would expect you to find everything in between as well.

[JanMichael]

15. Quite a few are.

I'm not but I also don't mind the ones that are. Frankly I just ignore the Astrology/Psychic/Whatever threads.

So I avoid the Meeting Room, that's not a big deal.

[Dudley_DUright]

20. I'm with you JM

I am mainly here to indulge the political junkie side of my interests. However, there are often pretty good discussions on science in the meeting room as well. I just ignore the astrology stuff.

[Sancho Panza]

18. since that former governor died today

That is 4 notable passings this week. The "3's" notion never holds up.

[scarlet_owl]

23. Do you mean O'Bannon?

He was the current governor of Indiana. Duties were transferred to the Lt. Governor before he died, though.

[Astarho]

24. Superstition and anti-science are not the same

I've met people who believe science is the most important thing in life but still carry around little things "for luck". I've also met religious people who believe superstitions are stupid.

I think there are a few DUers who are anti-science, but it's probably about the same or maybe less then the DUers who are anti-religion. There are many DUer's who don't believe that science has all the answers and/or science is used by humans who have their own preconceptions/prejudices.

[FloridaJudy]

25. Both/Neither

I suspect that very few of us are anti-science. I depend on evidence based experiments to tell me which dugs are effective, and which medical interventions will do my patients the most good.

However...

Sometimes I'm astonished by the power that belief/prayer accomplishes when science has thrown in the towel. I've seen patients recover -when every medical avenue has been exhausted - by their tenacious beliefs in Ganeesh, Jesus, Mohammed, Moses.

There's a damned good reason why believable science experiments are double-blinded. It's called the Placebo Effect.

Could be God. That explanation makes as much sense as any other.

[Az]

28. There is also

the possibility that its just the human body doing its thing. Our bodies are pretty good at self repair. Sometimes a process or an injury is too severe to recover from and our medicical professionals have learned statistically that it may be hopeless. But our bodies never studied statistics. They simply don't know when to give up.