Regardless of the Presidential Election outcome ...

[amandae]

It is clear that Democrats are losing a base in much of the country. Why is that? Whatever happens in this election, we SERIOUSLY need to open up a nationwide discourse on this subject. Is it because we're all flocking to the Northeast or West (the numbers for Kerry on the coasts are just unreal compared to the rest of the country)? If you're currently thinking of moving out of the country, consider a move to a swing state. Increase our numbers in the swing states before the next elections in two years. Double our numbers by the next election four years from now.

JMO, but one reason I think we're losing appeal to other parts of the country, particularly rural, is that there's an overwhelming urge for Dems (definately a smart group) to look down on people in rural parts of the country. The name calling (in public, at least) really needs to decrease. We can't call everyone who owns a pick-up or listens to country music, owns a gun, believes in banning abortion, etc. "stupid" or "moronic." No matter how much you might believe it to be true. No matter how moderate our candidate is, no one from the republican side will listen if they think that all Dems are elitist and look down on them. Right now the republicans have these people somehow thinking that they are on their side (the side of the working class??!!). Mostly on values, true. But Dems are repeatedly bashing those values instead of listening. Clinton was WONDERFUL because he appealed to those voters - HE LISTENED! If Dems come off as abrasive, they'll immediately lose the attention of those potential listeners, and those potential voters will remember that when they're standing in front of the ballot on election day. It's not just our candidate(s) and it's not just the issues. There are many moderate Dems who are not being elected either. It's ALL OF US. Ever hear, "You catch more flies with honey" or "kill them with kindness"?? It's not a betrayal to your party to be respectful to republicans and point out how much your candidate really has the values that these voters want and share. It's POLITICS. Values were a large part of this last election, and polls showed that overwhelmingly those who voted on values believed Bush shared their values, not Kerry. Did we, as Democrats, do enough to show voters that Kerry DOES share their values? We definately pointed out how stupid Bush is to other voters (and he IS). But did we stress the values point to potential voters? Maybe future campaigns should start talking about that. Kerry had a lot of ideas that weren't so far from Bush's ideas, values that weren't so dissimilar. Kerry is definately the better candidate, but overall, on this path the Democratic party has an uphill battle to come back into control.

We of course know that a lot of our problem is that republicans use smear tactics and DO NOT RUN fair campaigns. There was a report that republicans sent out flyers in Arkansas and West Virginia telling voters that if Kerry were elected he would ban bibles (has anyone else heard of that story??). Regardless, we know they don't "fight fair."

JMO ... I hope this doesn't end up as another post that starts a war on here, I just think that it is clear that we need to begin discussing why Dems are losing their base in much of the country. Regardless of the outcome of this election, it's clear that our base is slipping. I just think we need an open discussion ... and the sooner it starts the better for those us on the left.

[soothsayer]

1. just part of a normal cycle. *is said to be the bottom of the conservative

cycle (tho I think barrel is more apt), and us Dems will see an upswing here on out.

In other words, things have to get REALLY sucky before people go, woah.

[amandae]

2. I agree ...

There must be an upswing ... although do you think that our country is becoming more divided in a way that we've never seen before? It seems as though half the country is going the way of Europe (less influence of the church in government - for instance) and the other half is trying to keep things the way were after WWII or go backwards even. The evangelical base in the republican camp seems to be growing as time goes on, creating an even bigger divide between those for church/state connection and anti-church/state connection. Is this something that we've seen before? It's not a battle of denominations anymore, but almost a battle of whether or not to be politically influenced by religion at all. It's a bigger divide, in my opinion. When it was a conflict of denominations there could be a basic agreement that something higher was influencing it all, but in a disagreement of whether or not there is a higher power, we need to at least talk about the values.

:eyesroll: It just blows my mind that the crackhead, drunk-driving, irresponsible one is the one with more "values." Maybe we need to talk about what "values" really do appeal to these people ...

[miss_kitty]

3. this will be nakedly and openly sucky

I felt for sure that The Thief would lose, but I thought "No way Reagan's gonna win a 2nd term" as well.

There is no underestimating the intelligence or critical thinking abilities of the people enmeshed in the Great American Culture. The acquisitiveness nature of this society feeds the machine. "Have you got enough crap? No? Well here! Buy some more!" And the rush is like a most intense sugar high.

How much crap do YOU need? That TiVo? The iPod? Smashing new car. Not a hybrid though? Just exactly how many pairs of shoes do you need anyway? Pants? Shirts? Did you HAVE to buy that at Wal Mart? Target? Or another large chain? The GAP? Old Navy? Companies that spend MILLIONS on LAWYERS to LOBBY for them to MAINTAIN SLAVISH WORK CONDITIONS in Saipan, while being able to legally display the 'Made in the USA' Label?

Do you HAVE to eat At Taco Bell? KFC? MacDonald's? Or any other farm worker-abusing animal-torture supporting corporate assheap that sucks the life and soul out of the very country you mourn?

How much of this do you support with your own pocket books? How much crap do you put on credit cards, and then spend USUROUS interest rates maintaining a balance on that card?

This type of behaviour supports the system we HATE, we know is wrong. Regime change DOES begin at home, and it’s in our own homes we need to begin the change. To keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome is insane.


On Edit: A Grammar flaw

[miss_kitty]

4. kicking a good post

:thumbsup: