COMPLICATED work-related question... any and all advice wanted!

[last_texas_dem]

Hello DUers,

Just wanted to warn anyone approaching this post that it may end up being incredibly long... but many thanks to anyone willing to bear w/ me as I could really use some advice here on a moral sort of dilemma... It's fairly minor, but still nagging at me so I figured- what the hell, I'll get some additional opinions.

So, since May I have been employed at my town's movie theatre. I managed to land this job upon the recommendation of the Assistant Manager (2nd-in-command) who had been a friend of mine since we were in fourth grade together. We had been casual friends, but have become much closer since I started working there and talk quite a bit. My query here revolves around her getting (figuratively) screwed by the powers-that-be, how she handled it, and what came after.

Anyway, in early August, she (my friend), the Staff Manager (third-in-command), and another employee all mentioned that they were possibly looking for another job, as hours at the theatre become a little too part-time for some once the "school year" kicks in. (For example, I only get about twelve hours a week currently; this is fine with me as I'm taking a full load of college classes, but understandably not enough for others...) My friend (I'll call her L.J.) could have waited until successfully hired on somewhere else before putting in her two weeks' notice, but didn't want to put the Manager(S.A. for our purposes...) on the spot should both L.J. and the Staff Manager (D.M) end up vacating their positions simultaneously. So L.J. did what she thought was right, after a couple days of deliberation, and told S.A. that she was looking for another job.

(A little background: my manager, L.J. and I are all the same age: 20, and from the same class in school. We are the oldest employees at the theatre, w/ the others ranging from a yr. younger than us to high school seniors.
The three of us all attend college, while D.M. does not and doesn't plan to- and I only mention that because it's relevant to something I'm about to relate.
Also, S.A. and L.J. were once, actually until fairly recently, very close friends. Although I'm trying to relate this story as objectively as possible, I should also mention a bit about S.A.'s personality. She is a very friendly, personable person, attractive, but also very driven and very obsessed with money and success; textbook definition of "young Republican". Still, she is in general a nice person, but a bit conflicted when it comes to business. She can swing from approaching you very casually and treating you like a friend to being very no-nonsense and whatnot, and I tend to believe that part of the problem she is in now stems from this schizophrenia-of-sorts on her part. She has mentioned to me several times that there are "no friends in business", etc. In many way I sympathize w/ her. After all, she's only twenty and looking to earn respect at a quite difficult job for someone so young. But I believe it was her fear of her friendship w/ L.J. that caused her to do what she did in terms of "distancing" herself that caused the mess that has since developed up at work...)

So anyway, S.A. mentions to D.M. (third in command), who was planning on leaving b/c she needed a job where she got more hours w/ better pay, that w/ L.J. leaving the Assistant Manager position would be vacated and it would be hers if she wanted it. Hearing this, D.M. decided (perhaps understandably, although if you're suspicious like me you wonder if perhaps she announced her potential departure as a way of "bargaining" all along...) to stick around. W/ L.J. announcing herself as a definite departure once a job was found, D.M. was now staying and desiring the Assistant Manager position as soon as possible. So S.A. decides to "demote" L.J. to Staff Manager (third in command) and promote D.M. to her spot.

L.J. was understandable frustrated w/ the illogic of the entire situation, but had temporarily decided to stick it out, hoping to find another job soon. Well, the job market sucks around here, and she has had no success as of today. She has been in her demoted position for a month now, w/ no credible explanation of why it occurred, to date. Anyway, after another technical but still frustrating occurrence last week that I won't get into for the sake of getting more technical than I've already gotten, she decided to turn in a letter of resignation tonight. In the letter she demanded some compensation for her being forced to pay money for the incident last week (another issue altogether) but also mentioned that if this did not occur she intended to take the matter of her demotion and various other matters to the owner of the theatre and threatened possible legal action.

Anyway, to say the least, things are now a bit odd for me at work, considering one of my best friends has just resigned (on the eve of S.A. and D.M going on a 3-day work-related vacation in which she (L.J.) was expected to act as manager, at that- certainly a factor in her quitting when she did) in protesting getting screwed, and is threatening legal action towards my boss. Complicating matters is that I formerly tried unsuccessfully to act as a mediator between the two, and additionally L.J. happened to include some information that I had obtained in a private conversation w/ S.A. (S.A. said that if L.J. tried to protest her demotion on the fact that there were no legitimate grounds that she would be willing to come up w/ some...) in her resignation letter. Although I'm on fairly good terms w/ S.A. (I actually find her a fairly likeable person, despite the fact that I don't trust her.) I think she is fairly certain of where my bias lies, and in our conversations regarding the circumstances, she may have picked up on the fact that I felt she treated my fellow employee unjustly. Despite this, I had hoped the situation could stay between the two of them, and things could go on as regular (as possible, anyway) at work.

After she quit tonight my friend called me and we talked for an hour or so about the whole situation. Although I had initially advised her against it (I felt like she should do what she felt necessary regarding her rights- we both basically felt that S.A. demoting her on no specific grounds was illegal- but didn't want her to seek revenge) I was glad to see that she seemed to have gained a closure of sorts on the situation.

Anyway, so here comes the monkey wrench... a little after we get off the phone, S.A. calls me, and says something along these lines: she's calling for business, and wanted to tell me that I would be obligated to no longer discuss L.J. while I am at work, and outside of work I am forbidden to discuss work w/ L.J. Well, I was certainly taken aback, but have a tendency to lose my head when surprised so I agreed to the conditions and said I had no questions.

I should also mention that as far as I know she is requiring all other employees to make the same promise.

It was as soon as I hung up the phone that my mind immediately started to nag me over what the hell I had just done? First, I have no problem w/ S.A. saying L.J. should not be discussed at work. Advising this might perhaps cut down on the inevitable gossip that will occur after her explosive exit. (Our staff, all being around the same age, are fairly close to each other, but also way too petty and two-faced for the most part.) It might help maintain civility, and for that matter will make things easier for me... as I'm her best friend who works there and my other co-workers don't regularly communicate w/ her they are likely to side w/ S.A. out of ignorance, and avoiding the issue of L.J. will make things easier for me in keeping me out of 4 against 1 arguments and whatnot. Additionally, it is totally w/i S.A.'s sphere to regulate the behavior her employees engage in at work.

But I have determined that I have a very major problem w/ the second half of what I agreed to and it has been nagging at my mind ever since I hung up the phone. I simply can't see how S.A., regardless of her status as my boss, has any rt. to regulate what behavior I engage in outside of work. I know there are limits to that sort of thinking; I mean, if I were 21 and supplying alcohol to younger co-workers, etc., but I just cannot see how she has any legal authority to restrict what I talk about w/ one of my friends and former co-workers. If she has any authority to do what she did, perhaps b/c of the possibility of a lawsuit, any incriminating evidence getting out, etc., I hope someone here could inform me of this so I'm not just talking out my arse here...

The dilemma for me now is this: I made a verbal promise that I now feel like in good conscience I cannot stand by, and I'm considering just what option I should take. (FWIW, I actually have a bit of time to consider: S.A. is on the aforementioned vacation the next three days and I will not see her until Friday at the earliest.)

I look at these as my possible options of action:

A) So you think you cannot "stand by" the promise you made? Screw your "principles"! This is work, and you already meddled too much in a situation you should have stayed out of. You're lucky you're not in MORE complicated shit than you are. Just stand by the promise made, go to work, get on with life. You'd stress myself out much less if you didn't get involved in business that isn't your own.

B) What's a promise worth when the person asking you to make it had no authority to ask that of you in the first place? Tell L.J. whatever the hell you want to about work, and if it somehow gets back to S.A. remind her that she lacked the authority to limit your behavior in that way in the first place.

C) This is gonna keep bugging you whether you try to ignore it or not. You'd do best to tell your boss that you can't abide by the instructions she gave you because you don't consider them to be w/i her authority. At the same time, you should try to respect her position as an employee. Perhaps you should confront her in person or in writing and simply say that while you cannot agree to being obligated to behave in the manner she prescribed (the condition restricting communication outside of work) that you are willing to act upon her wishes out of respect for her.

D) Screw that! There's no point in letting her insecurity affect your behavior. You're pretty worthless for even agreeing to something that you can't in good conscience support in the first place. And this isn't a matter of standing by your friend, or your boss for that matter; it's about standing up for your rights. Tell your boss that you simply cannot abide by the communication-restricting provision she expects you to and you are willing to accept whatever consequences may come from your refusal.

Anyway, thank you very much to anyone who made it through this rambling post of mine. If you have any advice for me, pick one of the options I have thought of above (A,B,C,D) or give me some of your own in your own words. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

BTW, if you read this whole thing and after reaching the bottom thought "I read all that mess for THIS!?!", I apologize, but sometimes really minor things can really mess w/ one's mind and I'm having trouble sleeping tonight...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Whew! I have no idea what to say entirely but felt like I should respond

because you are up late needing a friend.

It is difficult to be friends with people one supervises especially if one has limited power because things will happen that will call into question either friendship or professionalism.

I also don't really see where your friend has any legal grounds to challenge the demotion since employment in most situations is at will and certainly promotion is as well.

YOur employer can ask you legally NOT to discuss business matters with an ex-employee since you are still priivy to work conversations that could have an impact on the situation.

AND gossip amongst co-workers is a KILLER and you learned that much.

It also sounds like your supervisor has let her power go to her head..not uncommon and that she relishes intimidating you with her requests and controlling and manipulating others with her authority.

The best case scenario as I can see is that you complete your education...and then be creative in what you do..don't put all your eggs in one basket and diversify your ability to make money in many ways,....then you will not ever find your livelihood entirely beholden on a dominating ass on a power trip :D

[last_texas_dem]

6. It's hard to say

I have to admit that I don't know enough about the situation to properly assess whether my friend has a legal case or not, so you are likely right if her case sounds rather weak. I just saw a problem in the fact that she was demoted for no specified reason, and the only possibile one being that she had mentioned that she was looking for another job. (FWIW, I should have mentioned in my initial post that the demotion involved a fairly sizeable cut in pay and hours...) Demoting someone because of this goes against prior practice at the theatre, but you never know...

I will definitely take into consideration whether S.A. was asking me to refrain from discussing work for legal reasons, as I can respect her request if that was the case. I am considering asking her about this soon. It just nags at me that she would try to restrict my behavior otherwise; I guess I'm just hardheaded and don't know when to pick my battles and when to let things go.

And I definitely plan to keep my options open in the future. Had I known a part-time job at a movie theatre would have been this stressful I wouldn't have even considered it!

Thanks for responding to me so late at night- or early in the morning as the case may be! :hi:

[anti_shrub]

2. My g/f had a similar situation

She worked at a retail store where the employees were in their 20s and the manager was in her 40s but acted like she was 18, so she wanted to be everyone's pal.

Well to cut a long story that I still don't fully understand short, one of the employees and the manager had a personal falling out that led to the employee getting fired for completely BS reasons. The problem was that the manager knew my g/f was friends with the person she just fired so she started trying to make her quit by cutting hours, enforcing rules that technically existed but had never been enforced before, and just being as bitchy as possible in the hopes she'd quit.

Didn't work.

What did the 40 year old supposedly mature manager do? Make phone calls telling people that they weren't allowed to talk to the fired employee anymore. Except she only called my g/f. Oops.

Lets just say my g/f's career there was over when the manager ended a phone call by saying "Fuck you and *name of fired employee*" out of nowhere.

The moral? Fuck it, the job ain't worth stressing over.

[last_texas_dem]

7. Petty people in power are scary

I have to admit that there is a concern in the back of my mind that my friendship w/ L.J. may end up being held against me as long as I'm still working there. I wouldn't be surprised at all if my boss is a grudge-holder and pulls the same kind of crap that happened to your girlfriend. I plan on at least looking around for another job (even with the market being as miserable as it is rt. now) to avoid having to deal w/ this, since I have a strong feeling it may be inevitable.

Thanks for your response! :hi:

[roguevalley]

3. honey, it sounds like my old job. :)

First of all, learn a lesson. There is a lesson here and I am very sure you know it. Hugs for the lesson.

Now, I don't like the idea that you were told not to talk to someone outside of work hours. What you say and do is not only a federal right but a state right. For the little bag to tell you not to talk about anything outside of work is crap. You aren't in intelligence or security work and you signed no confidentiality statements regarding not talking about what you do.

Tell her, you are aware she can ask for confidentiality AT work and you have no beef there. Make sure she knows you are aggravated to be in this at all. But tell her she can't tell you what to say or do outside of work. The little commie bitch. :)

Stay away from them all. They sound like a roiling mess and you have other things to do. Hugs, honey.

RV

[last_texas_dem]

8. I love your post

It makes me feel better and I think it puts things in perspective very well. Your last paragraph sums it up well!

Telling her that she can't control what I do outside of work is basically what I'm feeling and may end up telling her just what I think.

I guess I'm just way too emotionally involved in a situation that shouldn't even be my business! haha

Thanks for your advice! :hi:

[rucky]

4. This could be because of the lawsuit threat:

Workplace lawsuits are taken very seriously. You should weigh it heavily into your decision:

a) How serious is your friend about filing a lawsuit?
You can't really make an informed decision without talking to her about her intentions. I'd keep the discussion limited to that for now. If it looks like she's cooled down and won't file, then there's no reason you should keep your "promise," (which sounded more like a threat on her part, if you ask me). You have the right to know if you may be directly or inderectly involved in a legal action.

b) If there is a lawsuit, how involved do you want to get?
Because you WILL get involved if this thing proceeds. And the more you discuss the situation, the more questions you will have to answer - probably in a deposition. S.A. may have done you a favor by keeping you out of this.

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one when I'm watching TV.

[last_texas_dem]

9. I will have to find out...

...just how serious my friend is about the suit. Perhaps both she and my boss are just getting into one last power-conflict and this will all blow over soon enough. Or it could actually end up being serious, because I'm not sure how ready to back down, forgive and forget, either of them are. I do feel like my friend was wronged, but I understand she may have an uphill battle in pursuing any sort of legal remedy for what happened to her.

In terms of whether I were to end up getting extensively involved should this mess get to court, I feel that I'd be willing to participate in a legal action should it occur, but perhaps that's just because I'm young and naive- or perhaps a sick person who thinks that kind of thing might be exciting! haha

Thank you for your response! :hi:

[Booberdawg]

5. I had to read that twice! But I think I get the picture

I'm not so sure I agree that it was illegal to demote your friend. Part-time hours can be changed and are all the time. Nor is it out of line for an employer to ask employees not to discuss business with ex-employees. Especially in this case where your friend has threatened legal action!

Not to sound harsh, but it was your friend who chose to fight this battle, not you. If the subject comes up it won't be a stretch to simply tell her that nobody is discussing the matter.

It won't be long and either you or the boss will have a different job and you won't even have to worry about this anymore. Good luck with college. Enjoy it!

Linda

[last_texas_dem]

10. Thank you for your response

and for wishing me luck in school! :hi:

I understand the points that you are making, and can't wait to not have to deal with this sort of situation when I have a different job in the future. Then again, I don't know if it's ever possible to escape this kinda thing, but at least the characters involved will be different... haha

[Kenneth ken]

11. am I too late to chime in?

I think you ought to try to avoid talking about work with LJ; at any level beyond typical day-to-day information. What you don't want to do is get dragged into a position of being LJs insider for dishing dirt on SA.

If LJ wants to pursue legal actions regarding work; that's her choice. You should not be telling her anything regarding what you may hear 'the business' is planning to do in response to said legal action.

That's where you get yourself in trouble.

Right now, you have x amount of information about all that happened. Do your best to NOT gain any more information from either side about this whole situation. That means you also don't listen to whatever SA may say about any possible legal action.

If legal action occurs, you may need to be a witness to events. The less you know, the better off you are.

[Gore1FL]

12. My simple advise

Do what you want. If you want to talk to your friend about work, talk to her about work.

First of all, it is your perogative to talk to your firends -- and it isn't like you are sharing classified infomration. Additionally, I doubt you signed any confidentiality agreement. Unless the person giving the "order" to not discuss work discusses work with the person who no longer works there, no one will find out anyway.

As far as not discussing her at work, I wouldn't suggest it. the workplace is under the authority of the person making the request, so it isn't an out of bounds request.

In all likelihood, the discussion will not come up all that often after a while anyways, so in a sense, you will eventually defacto be following the request.

[dofus]

13. I have a question.

Is your theater part of a large chain? Or locally owned? If it's part of a large chain, they should have specific policies in places about promotions/demotions. And you can see how your friend's situation fits in.

Gossip at work is always a bad idea. Don't do it.

Your boss has no right to tell you not to speak with your friend outside of work. However, you should refrain from work gossip with her.

I strongly suspect your friend has not real case, but if either of you know a lawyer who would be willing to spend a half hour with her and let her know, pro bono. And even if she has a case, the monetary damages she could legitimately sue for, mainly lost wages, can't be very much.

Sometimes jobs are bad and you just need to move on. I'd personally say that the lesson to be learned here is not to stay in a job when it becomes unpleasant, when personality clashes make the job hard to do, whenever you have the freedom to do so.

[last_texas_dem]

19. It's a chain, but a fairly small one...

...its offices are Texas-based and I think there are maybe six other theatres that are part of the chain. I would be interested in seeing what exactly the policies are relating to a number of the issues this whole fiasco entails, and plan to advise my friend to look into this stuff as much as she can, but I've decided to not get too invested in any legal matters unless absolutely necessary. I do feel like I'd have to support LJ if push were to come to shove.

[displacedtexan]

14. ok, here's the deal:

you have just experienced (maybe for the first time) something that will probably dog you the rest of your life: you have been identified as a strength magnet!
because you live your life always mindful of fair treatment of all others, your friend chose you as her moral compass during her 'workplace crisis.'
even though you have no real power to help your friend through this crisis, she turns to you for advice and support... instead of pursuing her own course of action. she should contact the Equal Employment Office and find out if she has a leg to satnd on.
you should start looking for a part-time job on campus: even the crappy jobs can provide you with letters of recommendation later on!
it's obvious that your work ethic is already strong; for this reason, you will continue to be a strength magnet for the underdog! i advise you to learn as much as possible about resources for workers. the service workers international union can probably help you understand which battles can be won in the fight to reign in rightwing managers in the workplace. knowing your rights is the best defense! and it will help you to know that you've done all you can do (providing good information) to help your friend. trust me, this could aid your sleep problem!

[last_texas_dem]

20. Thanks...

...for the "strength magnet" comments. I consider this to be a good way to be and it just goes with the way that I look at things, even if it causes me to stress more sometimes about certain situations than they are really worth stressing over. I plan to point my friend towards whatever information I can should she decide to pursue this thing further; thanks for bringing up a possible resource.

With the situation at work being what it is, I would certainly consider any other options I can find, and may very well look into an on-campus job. This may not be the best time during the semester to find one, but I think I'm going to definitely try and find out about what's available.

[RobinA]

15. Do What You

feel comfortable with, I don't see you having any moral obligations in this scenario at all.

Your friend most likely doesn't have a lawsuit, unless she was demoted because of her ethnicity, age, religion, etc. Most employment is at-will, they can fire or demote you for any reason or for no reason except for certain, listed reasons, i.e. ethnicity.

The big lesson here is - don't tell your employer you are leaving until you are leaving. This kind of thing will happen every time.

My ex-company instituted a policy where internal jobs were posted and you could apply for them through this specific process. The process included asking your supervisor for permission. I KNEW this was a bad move, as it was asking to get laid off in the next round of layoffs, but I couldn't stand my position and decided lay-off was better than staying at that job. I started applying per the procedure. Guess what? Yep, laid-off. It was the first day of the rest of my life. Back at the company, some poor suckers are probably still sealing their fate by using the process.

[sangh0]

17. I agree

1) SA does have the legal right to demote your friend. Not only that, but there's a sound business reason for doing so. Someone who is obviously dissatisfied with the job (and looking for a new job is proof of that) is not the best candidate for management.

2) You made a mistake getting into the middle of this as a negotiator whewn it's obvious you are not "disinterested"

3) SA has the right to ask you not to discuss internal business matters with others. Though SA has no legal basis in which to FORCE you to remain silent, SA is allowed by law to fire you for speaking about company matters. What you might consider innocous and trivial information, others with maliscious intent will see as an opening.

[radwriter0555]

16. This IS simple. Stay out of it COMPLETELY. It's none of your business...

it will all pass, and it has nothing to do with you, even though you're friends with the parties.

You have no REASON to discuss this situation with anyone, since it has nothing to do with you, whether at work or not... any discussion is gossip.

All you have to say is that you're happy to listen, but that you won't offer any advice or opinion on the matter. Then do a lot of nodding. It will take a lot of discipline, but step away from the situation... your life will be a more simple as well. No one needs this kind of drama.

If your friend protests, simply say that it's not fair for everyone to put you in the middle, and that (they) will have to work this all out between them, without involving you.

[Nikia]

18. You are not morally obligated to SA

If you wish to discuss work matters with LJ, that is your choice. Make sure that you can trust LJ to be confidential about it, though. You were basically threatened to promise so the promise is not worth anything. You have a greater obligation to your friend. I would not tell LJ about your decision if you value your job. I don't think that LJ can file a lawsuit for the demotion. If she had money taken out of her check or was forced to pay for something job related, I think that this is illegal, but I am not sure.

[last_texas_dem]

22. That's how I feel...

I feel like the "promise" I was threatened into was almost an "unjust" law of sorts, which is why it has bothered me ever since it happened. But I also understand your point about not bringing it up to SA; doing that might make my point to SA and help to soothe my conscience, but there might not even be the need to risk my job over that anyway if SA was not within her authority to make me promise that anyway.

Thank you, and thanks everyone else for your responses.

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

21. Advice.....

Being "friends" with co-workers can end badly..for you and for them..

You are young, and even though this job seems important NOW, with 4 or 5 yrs under your belt, it will not seem so.. Your friend was wrong to telegraph her intentions, and even though the boss acted a bit callously, he/she acted in the best interest of the theatre..

Remember too, that what you say to each of your fellow employees (former employees) WILL get back to the boss.. When people leave under "odd" circumstances, the rumormill goes into overdrive, and little off the cuff comments can come back and bite you in the ass..

In a few weeks , this will all blow over, and your departed co-worker will have learned a valuable lesson.. Never quit a job UNTIL to have another..