Wow!!! Is Santa on Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer a giant tool or what?

[Mike Daniels]

That has got to be the most vicious portrayal of Santa on a Christmas special ever.

I can only assume his ill-nature was due to the fact that he was obviously underfed early on as he gets jollier after he puts on the poundage.

Also, given Herbie's glaring disinterest in toy-making, who feels that the misfit toys are most likely a result of his shoddy work on the job as they obviously had to come off Santa's production line being that close to the North Pole.

[hippiechick]

1. I had a few thoughts watching that ....

First, Mrs. Claus isn't the same Mrs. Claus as on the other Rankin-Bass shows. What will we tell the children ???

Second, the Elf-Foreman was a serious asshole. Every time he caught Herbie working on teeth or daydreaming, he would tell him he's a miserable elf and that if he didn't stop it, they would fire him, but then bullied him into staying in the toy-making trade. WTF?

Third, shouldn't Herbie have embraced being fired so he could pursue his dream of dentistry school ? I don't think he had any dependents to support ...

:silly:



:hippie:

[AllegroRondo]

3. The elves represent communism

remember, this show was made in 1964.

thats why Santa wears red - he's the head communist. They deplore non-conformity. and only after visiting the island of misfit toys (ie - democracy) can rudolph bring the light of capitalism to them.


OK, im reaching here.

[On the Road]

25. Oh, I Thought it Was Pro-Revolutionary

Idealizing nonconformity. All the misfits banding together. Santa and the elves would represent American conformist society and consumerism -- thus all the production of economically useless goods. (Of course, that's just as much of a stretch.)

Santa and the head elf were not the only adults in that special who were assholes. That reindeer coach certainly qualifies.

[Mike Daniels]

28. Clarice's father falls into a-hole category as well (racism?)

What's the line?

I refuse to have any daughter of mine be seen with a red nosed reindeer ( or something or along those lines). Replace "red nosed reindeer" with your racist or religious epithet of choice...

I'm probably really stretching the depth of a holiday cartoon special but it's fun to deconstruct things from contemporary viewpoints.

[On the Road]

34. I Actually Think it Represents How Children See Authority Figures

or at least did at the time. That was the special's audience and it played to its audience well.

Psychologically, it's right on for a children's movie. Many children feel different, rejected, misunderstood by authority figures. The Rudolph special showed a small human experiencing troubles, finding allies and friends, and using his particular difference (interest in dentistry) to defang the monster.

I think that's why it's become a classic and some other holiday films haven't.

[elehhhhna]

Herbies' Boss looks like (ex) IL Governor Jim Thompson. Really!

[Lautremont]

2. Hey you guys, it's Hermie, not Herbie.

Easy mistake to make, since Rudolph appears to have blocked sinuses even without his false nose. But yeah, that Santa, what a grump. Lots of dicks in the show: Santa, the foreman, Comet, Donner and Clarice's dad as well. And what's with Yukon Cornelius and his dog team attacking the Abominable Snow Monster for no reason after Hermie's pulled all his teeth? That's just mean.

[Mike Daniels]

15. As a kid I was always upset that the dogs went over the cliff with Yukon

Didn't seem to bother me in the least that Yukon went over as well.

Don't know why that was as Yukon was a pretty decent character. May have been because the dogs were so cute.

[StopTheMorans]

4. he and donner are wicked bastards

they should have been prosecuted for murder ifd any of the reindeer who went to look for Rudolph had died. I don't believe in the death penalty, but I'd be willing to make exceptions for those heartless bastards...

[Not_Giving_Up]

5. You know, I watched this every year as a kid, couldn't wait for it

Last night, I watched it with my son. One message was just screaming at me from the TV....CONFORM!!!!! Rudolph's parents were ashamed of his nose because it was different and went out of their way to hide it. Santa told Donner that he was disappointed in HIM, as if Donner had asked for a kid with a red nose. Poor Herbie was not allowed to be an individual at all. Hello, he was the only elf with blonde hair that showed below his elf cap, so he stood out like a sore thumb anyway, dentist wanna be or not! Of course, in the end, the misfits were allowed to be welcomed in by the normal people, but only because they served a useful purpose. So, it wasn't really that they learned to accept other people, it was that they figured out that they could exploit the situation. Rudoplh was a freak, he was explicitly told he couldn't play the reindeer games. Of course, when the storm is so bad that x-mas might be cancelled, then they can use the freak.

Am I making too much of this?

[StopTheMorans]

6. i actually felt the same, and in addition

felt that it reinforced traditional gender stereotypes (i.e. Donner's wife has to stay home b/c finding Rudolph is "men's work", Rudolph has to save Clarice from the abominable snowman, etc...). that being said, i'm willing to let my PC-dar down for the holidays, ho fucking ho :evilgrin:

[tigereye]

16. well you have to consider when it was made

it is very different watching kids now than when we were small. I agree with the conformity angle... that was pretty disturbing. Even my 8 year old was able to spot some of that.

[Mike Daniels]

20. "This is men's work"

I was commenting to my wife yesterday that comments like are the only thing that place the show as being a product of a past time. Beyond that, archaic animation aside, the show truly is timeless.

That said, since the "men" were ultimately the ones who mucked everything up so bad to begin with, perhaps the women should have just let them clean up the mess.

[Not_Giving_Up]

22. I know, I about died

"men's work" - gag!

[redqueen]

7. Was it already on?

Did I miss it?!

[StopTheMorans]

8. last night at 8 my friend

but I'm sure that, if the past is any indicator, it will be on again, possibly 30 or 40 times :D

[redqueen]

12. It better be!

:cry:

[tigereye]

18. yeah RQ I missed it since my son had homework to do

:(

[elehhhhna]

9. & isn't Clarice a bit young for false eyelashes?

[StopTheMorans]

11. they looked real to me

:evilgrin:

[rkc3]

17. Her breasts did look real - the eyelashes were a bit overdone though.

[Not_Giving_Up]

10. Yep, it was on last night

Frosty comes on Friday night

[redqueen]

13. Thanks for the notice

[BuelahWitch]

14. I think it's available on DVD n/t

[Not_Giving_Up]

23. I saw the set

All of the ones that were done like this (same look), there were four or five

[rsdsharp]

19. God Lord, I can't believe the critiques.

Look, it was made in 1963, mostly because Rankin lived next door to Johhny Marks, who wrote the song in 1949, based on a 1939 story Montgomery Ward commissioned as a Christmas giveaway, and some of you want it to reflect 21st century PC. It's been on every year since 1964 -- it's not like this is a surprise, and it's sure as hell not going to change.

Please, for those of us who are Rudolph freaks, it's Hermie. It's also technically Donder (see the Night Before Christmas), but the show does use Donner as Rudolph's father, so that's understandable. I'll never know where Herbie came from.

[Mike Daniels]

24. I think the critiques are a bit tounge in cheek

No one is saying they didn't like the show but it is interesting to see the show in a different light from when most of us probably first saw it as kids.

I was born in 1967 so I probably saw it for the first time in 1970 or 71 and to the best of my knowledge have seen it every year since then either on the broadcast networks or on VHS/DVD.

Everyone knows the song but the TV show takes the exclusion factor so above and beyond (esp. with Donder and the Santa portrayal) that later in life you realize "Wow, that is f'ing harsh."

On reflection it's probably a good thing that you missed last year's thread that discussed the gay subtext between Rudolph and Fireball and later Hermie (for some reason I always thought it was Herbie as a kid and I've never noticed that I was hearing it wrong). I wouldn't be surprised if people think they hear "Herbie" vs. "Hermie" as "Herbie" is a proper name most people have heard at one time or another.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

21. Ever wonder about all those cute litle mushrooms???

http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/xero/christmas_shroom_santa_claus_1122.htm

The Amanita muscaria mushroom is that cute red one with the white dots that you see in fairy tale illustrations, a staple of enchanted worlds. They abound in Christmas imagery. Elves carry them and sit upon them. Sprites tie them with ribbons and hang them on doorknobs. They’re little houses. They peek from Santa’s sack. They line snowy paths. They’re squeaky toys. They’re hats. They’re tree ornaments.
<snip>
Reindeer adored the mushrooms. They would chow down, then prance about wildly in the God Flow, hence symbolic ‘flight.’ The strings of cranberries and popcorn are stand-ins for the red-and-whites, strung up to dry. The wassail bowl resembles a fully mature Amanita, when its round top inverts and points skyward. Some believe that the mushroom was the true Holy Grail.

[LionInWinter]

26. I always hate the end where they throw the little bird to his death!

Remember when they're chucking all of the misfit toys out of the sleigh with umbrellas? They take a look at the little brown bird & push him out without one. I guess he's supposed to fly to his new home, but earlier, during the Island of Misfit Toys song, we learned that he was a misfit because he couldn't fly, he could only swim!

I made this realization when I was 8 or 9, and its bothered me ever since.

[Mike Daniels]

29. Goes to show that all misfits are not created equal.

Perhaps the elves forgot about the bird's condition.

Either that or it was premeditated and done with malicious forethought because the bird soiled an elf tunic and the elf was taking revenge.

[Shakespeare]

27. How old were you when you realized Hermie is gay?

And I think Charlie-in-the-Box is, too. My first thought was, "oh my GOD, I can't believe I never noticed that before!" Second thought was, "I can't believe they got away with such an obviously openly gay character in 1964!"

[Mike Daniels]

38. Let's not even get started on Fireball ( bleach blonde reindeer)

Who seemed totally disinterested in the doe reindeer but couldn't keep his eyes off Rudolph.

Interesting that blond hair was used as part of the construct for the two characters most likely to be tagged as gay.

Of course the near threesome between Rudolph, Hermie and Cornelius was tragically left untouched when Rudolph fled the scene.

[noonwitch]

30. "Raging Rudolph" on MAD TV

I taped it, it's on my homemade tasteless Christmas videotape. It has that, Beavis and Butthead's x-mas shows and a couple of South Park ones (the one with Eric Cartmen singing "O, Holy Night" is classic).

It's a parody of Rudolph and Martin Scorsese. I was showing it to my teenaged cousins one time, and my uncle was so freaked out (not that I was showing it, he doesn't like violence, even puppet violence).

[Phillycat]

31. The Abominable Snowman scared the piss out of me as a kid.

[dr.strangelove]

32. LMAO

Hermie made the misfit toys, that is great!!

[Beer Snob-50]

33. this is one of the all time great christmas shows!!!

i also look forward to the charlie brown christmas (the only one that has biblical quotes in it).

[mondo joe]

35. It's all a gay allegory. And Rudolph lusts after the coach reindeer.

You have to admit, he's quite the stud. For a reindeer.

[DrWeird]

36. That's the most homoerotic cartoon I've ever seen.

I'm sorry I missed it this year.

[Eurobabe]

37. I got it on DVD

favorite song is 'We're a Couple a' Misfits'

Never have to suffer through Rudolph withdrawal. And yes, Clarice's father is one bigoted cervidae.