Spells and Belles: The dirty dealings at Louis XIV's court

[roughsatori]

From a book review at Guardian Unlimited:

In 1679, Louis XIV, a man much given to mistresses, discovered that noblewomen in his court had been resorting to poison and witchcraft. Anne Somerset has previously written on the Overbury murder at the court of James I (another seventeenth-century cause célèbre involving a king's circle and poisoners), but the French 'affair' is more like the Earl of Bothwell's alleged conspiracy to destroy James by witchcraft in 1591, a moment where an absolute monarch is forced to react to a profoundly subversive challenge.

Poison and witchcraft evoked deep anxiety then; they overturned distinctions between the powerful and powerless and, above all, they were weapons women could use against men. To the man who said: 'L'Etat c'est moi', this was grave indeed. And, once accusations were flying, who was safe? Were any of those yapping in the ranks of the righteous actually as guilty as sin? So it was not just the official victims who were poisoned; it was the court itself, and trust between ruler and ruled.
snip//http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/history/0,6121,1046144,00.html

[roughsatori]

1. This will be my one shameless kick

:)

[catzies]

2. Here's a historical novel you might like, same subject

"The Oracle Glass" by Judith Merkle Riley, 1994.

[roughsatori]

3. Thanks Catzies, I just wrote it down

and hope to read it soon. :)

[cally]

4. Interesting point about Louis being estranged

from his nobles. I've always read/heard that poison was a woman's weapon and was more feared because of that. Women were often the healers and cooks and so had much more access to medicinal herbs and knew the uses of them. During all the witch burning and genocide of the wisewomen much of this knowledge was feared and looked at with fear. Much of the myth, and sometimes reality, of women using poison stems from the fear of the church that women would get retribution through poison. This review is an interesting twist to other theories I've heard.

[roughsatori]

5. I had not thought of that: women as healers and cooks had access

to medicinal and poisonous herbs, and would due to lack of power attempt to change their conditions using what was at hand: herbs and chemicals.

When I was a child, my mother put arsenic in my fathers coffee and pancakes(he was a wife-beating, child-abusing alcoholic, he became very ill but lived. My father is now sober for years and does not abuse her anymore either. I did not know this story until recently, my Mother told me, she said it was the hardest thing she ever told a Priest during confession. LOL

[catzies]

6. You just described the book I recommended!

The amazon.com review doesn't do it justice, and I'd rather not type the entire dustjacket. I don't read a lot of novels, but I love her work!
********************************************************
From Publishers Weekly
From the author of In Pursuit of the Green Lion comes a novel set in 17th-century Paris and Versailles, tinged with the occult and a feminist sensibility. The younger daughter of a loveless marriage between a scholar and a woman of high breeding, Genevieve Pasquier appears to have few prospects, since she was born with a deformed leg. Taught Latin by her father, however, she has a keen intelligence that stands her in good stead when, after leaving home as a teenager, she is adopted by a wealthy fortune-teller as her protegee. Genevieve has the gift of seeing the future in water, a talent that Catherine Montvoison, a real-life figure who was both a seer and an undercover abortionist to the aristocracy, quickly exploits. Played out against the background of Louis XIV's court, the narrative offers ample glances into the lives of the nobility, as well as intrigue and a love triangle involving Genevieve, an outlaw and a society playwright. Unfortunately, the author's impressive knowledge of the time is offset by wooden characterization and predictable plotting, and her story never quite breaks the bounds of competent genre fiction. Toward the climax, scenes of torture, witch-hunts and executions will satisfy those who like their historical fiction laced with a touch of horror; for readers who enjoy an exotic setting with a celebrity slant, the novel offers an intriguing vacation read.
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670850543/qid=1064205320/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-9719294-8796143?v=glance&s=books

[cally]

7. Wow,

I would hate to confess that to a priest. I'm glad your father is now sober and that the marriage is better now.

I'm fascinated by this time in women's history. I'm kind of blanking on the numbers tonight, but I think something like 20 to 30 percent of all women were burned as witches in parts of Europe. The church targeted the elder women healers who had tremendous status in the community and often ties to more traditional, non Christian or power elite, methods of healing and rituals. It was also around this time that men became the healers and doctors. The leaders began to fear poison---the women's weapon. I think I've heard that in other cultures, poison was also seen as the women's weapon.

Another interesting idea is that after this genocide, men started preferring young innocent women. Before this, men often preferred the older wise woman because she brought status. The Church started recommending young innocent women to powerful men because they were easier to control.

There was a wonderful PBS series on this a few years ago. I got interested and did research at the time.

[roughsatori]

10. That was a fascinating post, thank you NT

[catzies]

8. One of the powers of herbs is as abortifacients.

Women using the power of nature in their quest to control their own bodies is as old a story as we are as a species, practically.

[cally]

9. Amazing, isn't it?

The whole growth of the traditional male doctor was, in part, a way to counter the traditional female power with herbs and healing.

[catzies]

11. Ah, and that's the patriarchy in a nutshell, isn't it?

I'll be a post-feminist in the post-patriarchy.

[cally]

12. I agree

Another proud feminist here.

Yes, that is patriarchy in a nutshell. I believe that much of western civilizations fear of female power stems from this time period. The need of the male power elite, Christian church leaders--I don't mean Christians but the power elite, to squelch the power of the women healers and traditional religious practices.

[cally]

13. Kick for the weekday crowd

:kick:

[roughsatori]

14. Thank you Cally and Cattzies

I just got back and read your dialog. It was refreshing. :)

[supernova]

15. What a fascinating thread!

Thanks everyone! This fits into the general framework I've often wondered about in modern theology. And that is "when exactly did images of God stop being feminine (think the Venus figurines) and start being more masculine (the God of the Abramic faiths)? I've never been able to answer that or find anyone to point me in the right direction on it.

As for the church wanting to supress the wisewomen, that's very interesting indeed. Does this coincide with the interest in preserving female virginity/suppression of female sexuality until marriage?

[roughsatori]

16. Here is a link to a photo and explanation of: Venus of Willendorf

It is the only one I could find right now. I read a wonderful essay about what you mention and it started with the Venus of Willendorf. I may have read it in a Biblical Archeology mag I use to subscribe too. http://witcombe.sbc.edu/willendorf/willendorfdiscovery.html

[roughsatori]

17. I just posted a link in reply to your post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=213727#215071

There is a link in my reply there. Did not know if you would get back, so wanted to send it.

[supernova]

18. Thanks, roughsatori!

for the link. Interesting read. I have seen the "Venus" of Willendorf in person at the Naturhistoriches Museum in Vienna. Regardless of what her (and her sisters') purpose was, she is an impressive little statue. Tough and delicate all at the same time.

[roughsatori]

19. I hope to one day see it, I love that "Venus" for some reason. NT