Need Advice: Might Need to Sue former Bosses. But before I do...

[bettyellen]

I was laid off the Monday of Thanksgiving week in New York City.
During the termination conversation, my bosses said they would take care of me, I said in addition to serverance, I had not been able to take most of my earned vacation this year.
I received a paycheck to day not covering that Monday at all. I had already corrected the HR person and reminded her I worked that day. I also corrected her statement that I had taken all my vacation. They owe me eight days. I did not receive a response. The problem is, they didn't pay me all three weeks vacation for my first year there, either. They didn't allow me to take it, and then said I didn't take it quickly enough and never compensated me for it. Their employee handbook says one week, but three weeks vacation was part of my salary negotiations. I had already a 7 year history with these people. I think now they are going to pretend I was never given three weeks.
A year ago, I had talked about leaving the company and they gave me a big lecture about how I owed them the chance to work things out, they would never dump me like that, etc. I actually turned down job offers because I thought I had job security at least. So I think there's some basis for misrepresentation there.
I need to try and reach the more reasonable two of the bosses on Monday and see if they will be more reasonable, but it seems like they have been hiding from me.
I am afraid if I cash this check, I am stuck without getting paid for that Monday if I cash it Is that right?
The big problem, I am probably going to have to threaten to file a complaint or sue them. And I have nothing in writing and two partners willing to lie about anything to anybody.
They didn't even pay me for the last day I worked there, which flips me out so, I am ready to get a lawyer. But is it a big waste of time?
Are they going to take any threat seriously knowing I have nothing in writing?

[Truman01]

1. HR is required to keep records that are hard to change.

Did you sign a hold harmless, or a release when you left? Even if you did, I don't think it will cover this. Getting the first year's vacation pay might be hard. What did the handbook say about getting pay when you are laid off? What is their normal course of action?

As for the eight days you worked, do everything in writing certified. Keep copies and take them to an attorney who specializes in employment law. Many times the law provides for attorney fees because the amounts can be small and not worth pursuing otherwise.

Keep everything you can as evidence, send them letters memorializing the verbal arrangements and do not threaten suit. The key is to get these people to send you letters. Good luck. See an attorney, I'm sure someone will give you a free initial consult.

TC

[bettyellen]

4. I am out of there now, and have nothing in writing...

everything was verbal and i trusted them, i'm afraid i have no proof they offered me three weeks vacation because they don't carry it over and i screwed me out of it the first year. all i have are notes from the employment interview when i was hired. I'm trying to track down a partner who left who might remember this, but it's proving difficult. they never put anything in writing. they just tell you that you can't take the vacation time now and let the clock run out! they do this a lot, it's in their handbook that it doesn't carry over. .
i'm an idiot! Because I had a long history with them, I didn't think they'd be this sleazy with me.

[Truman01]

6. I mean that all your current communications should be

in writing. Don't call them unless you have to. Send a letter to your boss memorializing what was said, and copy it to HR. Send it certified so you can prove they got it. Hopefully they will answer you. The minute you act like or say you will sue they will clam up. But most important, go see an employment attorney. Good luck.

TC

[Liberty Belle]

2. I'm not an attorney, but here's what I did...

I was in a similar situation years ago, laid off and stiffed on vacation pay and overtime due. I'm in California, so I complained to the Fair Employment Practices Commisison (I think that's the right name for the agency).

As soon as the employer found out I'd filed a complaint, they caved in and paid what I was owed.

That said, you probably should talk with an attorney as soon as possible, particularly regarding your question on whether to cash the check.

I know how you feel. I was 4 months pregnant when I lost my job, after I'd been given a big raise and promised a job with the company as long as I wanted to stay there.

On the bright side, like many others in this situation, I found that it was a blessing in disguise. I started my own business as a freelance writer and have never regretted it. I hope you'll find a silver lining and wind up better off in the long run, no longer having to work for ruthless jerks.

[VivaKerry]

3. What a bummer situation for you!

A real kick in the shins!

but, check this out with others, but you can write on the endorsement part of the check (and copy front and back): cashed in protest. That basically says that you are not accepting the amount as 'paid in full'... but you of course have a right to use the money you do have right now.

As for their promises a year ago....well, I think they can say anything they want to say to keep you there, and if things lasted a full year after that conversation, how could that be legally construed as a misreprsentation? Whether they tried to make it a longterm relationship or not is pretty sketchy. And, well, if you turned down job offers throughout the year, then doesn't that sound like you were out looking for another job? Sure looks that way. So who was abandoning who, first? Just something to think about.

As for your vacation pay.... why not craft a very reasonable, rational letter addressed to all your bosses and to be hand delivered to them tomorrow. Basically lay out the numbers of what you expected in your final check and don't threaten to 'sue them' if they don't write a check right away. Threats like that usually close doors.

Anyways, lay out the numbers of what you feel you are owed to finalize things. And ask them to please make good on what you are owed.

Also might want to mention that you are cashing that recent check they wrote to you because you need to money but that you absolutely are not in agreement that they have paid you in full for what you were owed.

I don't know how much all that vacation time pays you (if you get it), but do you know how much a lawyer will cost you? $200 to $300 per hour. If you are owed even as little as $2000 from the former employer, I can't imagine an attorney (w/ a conscience) taking a case that will cost you half that, OR MORE, much, much, much more were you to want to sue these guys.

Sounds like you are upset (reasonably so), but getting all litigious probably isn't going to get you anywhere. Layout what they owe you in black and white, and ask for it.

[bettyellen]

5. Good advice-- are you certain about being able to cash the check?

I am most upset that they actually are not paying me for the last full day I worked!! It's so outrageous. And they knew this, the Human resources person saw me there that afternoon! I told her this was a mistake before she had the check cut.
I think it might be a gambit to get me begging for less, you know start the negotiations low. It's so sleazy, I am seeing red and mad at myself that I have nothing in writing.

[VivaKerry]

10. Don't accept a dime less than you are owed!!!

If you even showed up for work on that monday, you get paid for it. Even if they laid you off at 9am! You committed to work that whole day and you showed up, They need to make the same commitment and pay you for that day.

I am 90 percent sure about the check. I will see if I can find hard legal info on that....

[bettyellen]

13. Thanks so much! They have canned so many people first thing in the

morning and not paid them... it's so repulsive. The vacation i took a year ago- he called me like every day on my cell phone w/ work questions other people could have answered and then left me a message that 1st thing Monday I had to fire someone as they walked in the door. He was too chicken to fire most people himself so he ruined my last weekend at the beach by telling me this!

[notadmblnd]

7. one thing I have learned is to keep records

Call it a work diary/journal. Just a line or two a day about the significant events of the daily grind good or bad. If the boss says something inappropriate jot down the date and time of the comment make sure you record what your reply is too. If rumors are flying, write them down. If you do something good jot it down (this one comes in handy when you need to justify your request for an increase). If you make a mistake jot it down. This eliminates questions at review time when events may become clouded.

And just to keep your employer in line, let them see your writing in this book. Always keep it with you, do not leave this in the office take it home every night.

I know it's too late for this employer, but it may help you with your next employer. Start you diary the day you interview for the job and follow through with it during your entire work history. In a court of law these can be used as evidence. Especially if your employer has a custom of not putting important information or agreements in writing.

Your diary/journal doesn't need to be fancy. it can be a simple notebook or even your day-timer/planner. Letting your employer know that it will not be easy to screw you over from the get go eliminates a lot of grief in the long run.

[bettyellen]

8. Pretty smart, but my boss already beat me on this one.

He puts nothing in writing, and will fill it in with whatever bullshit he wants later!
He'll get the HR person to lie for him, she's his little soldier, she knows they screwed me out of the day's pay at the very least, but she followed orders.

[seabeyond]

9. you have a history of 7 years

to show that you were given three weeks paid vacation. that may do it. going after a business as an employee is easy, even here in texas. i owuldnt think the company would want to miss with the appropriate government angency. i know as a business owner we would not. though also as an employee and now a business owner, i am hoping you be fair and justice what you are asking for too, just cause i think right is right. not just a matter of screwing an employer

i tell my employees, i dont want to pay you for what you didnt do, i also want to pay you for what you did do

[VivaKerry]

11. True, she could go to the state's dept of labor office

for some advice too. Forgot about that.

[bettyellen]

12. Listen they didn't even pay me the last day i worked...

let alone what was promised. i am not trying to screw them out of anything! they have screwed evrybody out of vacation time, by telling them not now not now, and then not carrying it over to the next year. it's part of the reason i was going to leave last year.
when i worked for them years back, i had only two weeks vacation. new position, new negotiaion. They are slick. They don't put anything in writing, you know? all my requests to schedule my vacation were ignored and the boss blew me off in person!
they offered me severance and to pay the vacation owed.. but i guess since there were no witnesses, they felt they didn't have to follow through.

[seabeyond]

15. this is what i am saying, labor dept, thank you vivakerry

they dont miss around. you have claims, they will go after the company for you. the last day, absolutely you can go after them for it. they will cough it up real quick with labor dept behiond you, and then stating out the vacation issue. a couple thing there. if the contract you signed says vacation is not accumaltive, then you may not have recourse, but then talking to labor dept, tell them they have that rule, but then deny us the ability to take vacation within that time frame, tehy will investigate. and it will save you on attorney fees

i dont know too many businesses that will take labor dept on.

[bettyellen]

19. thanks so much!

[bettyellen]

14. and did I mention the boss is a repug-- he claimed we were

smart to be "keeping the fighting over there, so we don't get attacked here".
Oh that's where the AlQueda plotters are, the streets of Fallujah! Wow!
So full of shit, his parents are way old and quite wealthy. He's hoping for no inhertance tax. I had to keep my mouth shut about that alright!

[elehhhhna]

16. Cashing the check doesn't release them from any obligations,

verbal or written. The Dept of labor's local WAGE CLAIM Division will give you info over the phone, send out the simple paperwork, and help solve this claim. If it's your word vs. theirs on the vaca time, you'll probably win it. The last days pay should be NO PROBLEM--assuming you're salaried (no OT pay) hey, you showed up, they owe you, problem solved.

Odds are also high they've been filed on for wage claims before and they'll cough up the bux as soon as they get the letter from the DOL.

(I'm ex-HR Consulting & have done both sides of this filing business.) Cash the check and call the Local DOL Monday asasp.

I's also like to address the "emotional counteroffer"--that's exactly what companies do to WOMEN they don't want to replace (right away), and you were a classic example--textbook description, really! Men get $$$, women; a guilt trip. Why? Because it works! Don't fall for that one again. Once you give notice, GO!

So, live & learn--a better job will come from this!

[bettyellen]

17. great advice, thank you soo much!

i never heard the emotional counter offer before... it's a great phrase I won'tsoon forget!
thanks again. will heed your advice. Should I note on check "cashed in protest" or anything special? Someone advised this.

[bettyellen]

18. ooops, my mistake!

[Seabiscuit]

20. Do you have anything in writing to support you contentions?

If not, you may be up the proverbial river without a paddle.

[bettyellen]

21. copies of email i sent that day from work. that's about it.

[Seabiscuit]

22. Did they send any e-mail reply or other written reply?

[bettyellen]

23. No, they said bosses were out of town.. and they would take it

(serence issue) up with them. when they returned. but they both signed this check Friday- (covering the pay period i was owed six days for- that was for five days). so they are hiding from me.
she also had emailed me last week that i had used "both" my weeks of vacation - i took seven days total -- and reminded her I was entitled to three weeks- 15 days)
they are horrible at keping records themselves. she always forgets to put down vacation on the payrol records anyway. so i'm not sure she can prove i took any time although she stated i did. she ought to have it down i took two days, but who knows. I emailed them nicely and cc'd a major boss with a bit more integrity today and have heard nothing.
everybody advises me to report them to the dept of labour , but when i contact them to try and sound as if i had consulted a lawyer. apparently the dept of labor should scare them. i don't know what else to do. i feel like a big sucker for believing them. i had a long history and got on well with two out of the three partners. the third, he pulls crap all the time behind the other two's back. i am hoping the other partners will make him rethink this.

[Seabiscuit]

24. If they don't keep accurate records and you can prove it

you probably have a case against them for the vacation pay. I'd start with the Dept. of Labor, then hire an attorney if they don't pursue it. In reality, in labor cases, attorneys usually advise their clients to file a labor dept. claim, which must be done 30 days prior to filing suit (in the event the labor dept. takes no action - and the attorney can always request that they don't, if he/she feels there's a stronger civil case. The labor dept. is very cooperative with such attorneys). In any event, start with the labor dept. and follow through to see what they tell you and what they're willing to do for you and what they think you should do prior to spending $$ on an attorney. If the labor dept. doesn't get you the relief you want, consult with several attorneys who offer free consultations. Don't waste money on consultation fees.