Santa... or?

[Kellanved]

Poll question: Santa... or?

[Brundle_Fly]

1. where is

svarti pete?

[Kellanved]

2. in Slot 11

At least I didn't forget Poland :D

[meegbear]

3. How about Black Peter?

It is said that during the Middle Ages, the people in Holland referred to the devil as Black Peter (Dutch: Zwarte Piet). He was put in chains by Saint Nicholas, and made his slave. On Saint Nicholas' Eve (December 4), the saint had Black Peter drop candy and gifts down chimneys into the shoes children had placed there.

[Kellanved]

5. yes, that figure is common in all central and northern European

countries.

Knecht Ruprecht, Zwarte Piet...(Santa's little helper).

[Byronic]

4. Father Christmas (n/t)

[ze_dscherman]

6. Nikolaus only

St. is for catholics, protestants (i.e. most people around) in Germany just call him Nikolaus.

[hoosierblue]

7. Don't Lutherans also have Saints?

I think they do. Or else, if they don't, someone better tell them to stop naming their churches after them.

[ze_dscherman]

10. They don't have Saints

AFAIK, it is a central doctrine of protestant faith that only Christ is a mediator between God and man. Thus, there's no worshipping of/through Saints.

[hoosierblue]

19. Actually they DO have saints...

Then you better tell them that. Examples of lutheran church names:

EMMANUEL ST MICHAEL LUTHERAN SCHOOL
SAINT PETERS LC MS
ST MARKS MO SYNOD
LUTHERAN CHURCH ST PETER ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
SAINT JAMES LUTHERAN CHURCH ELCA
ST THOMAS ELCA LUTHERAN CHURCH

Sounds like saints. They do not worship them, true, but they DO have them.

Also, I don't worship saints. As a Catholic, I pray to them so they will pray to God for me. I do not "worship" through them either. Change that to pray.

[ze_dscherman]

20. Protestants saw the prayer to Saints as idolatry

Abolishing this was an important issue in the reformation movement. However, the concept of Saints has not totally vanished from Protestant faith.


Phillip Melancthon, http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/con... :


"Of the Worship of Saints they teach that the memory of saints may be set before us, that we may follow their faith and good works, according to our calling, as the Emperor may follow the example of David in making war to drive away the Turk from his country; For both are kings. But the Scripture teaches not the invocation of saints or to ask help of saints, since it sets before us the one Christ as the Mediator, Propitiation, High Priest, and Intercessor. He is to be prayed to, and has promised that He will hear our prayer; and this worship He approves above all, to wit, that in all afflictions He be called upon, 1 John 2, 1: If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, etc."


See also: http://www.unf.edu/classes/saints/index2.htm#Reformatio... :

"The Protestant Reformation represented the greatest challenge to the cult of saints since antiquity. As a consequence of their rejection of the Catholic doctrine of the mediation of grace and real sanctification, there was no real role for saints within Lutheran or Calvinist churches. Nevertheless, Protestants continued to use the terms "saint" about some figures, and to create their own hagiography."

[hoosierblue]

23. Look at my question.

Does it say, "Do Protestants pray to saints?" No. But they do have them.

Notable Lutheran Saints: Saints of the Week!
http://www.resurrectionpeople.org/saints.html

You yourself wrote:
"... Nevertheless, Protestants continued to use the terms "saint" about some figures, and to create their own hagiography.

Again, what are you arguing about?

I'm not posting again to this. I don't even see what the argument is.

[ze_dscherman]

24. I was not arguing AGAINST you

I just cited some sources that state that you are right on "Protestants have some kind of Saints". But these Saints play a completely different role than in Catholicism.

The site you just were citing says: "Lutherans rejoice with the Apostle Paul in considering all baptized followers of our Lord Jesus living faithfully in the body of Christ to be saints."

So, what are we arguing about? :hi:

[J-Lo Biafra]

8. Heat Miser

"I'm too much..."

[MsAnthropy]

9. This is Murica!

We don't cotton to any of those furriner santas!

[dolo amber]

11. The Fat Man

Oh no, wait...that's my dad. :D

[tigereye]

18. my son has been asking all the rationalist questions

about Santa this year. Then he was upset when his dad didn't want to go to the office party where one of the honchos of the organization dresses up as Santa. Plus we had to see The Polar Express twice. A bit ambivalent, no? ;)

[Donkeyboy75]

12. der Weinachtsman

And you should be shot for making the forgetting Poland joke. ;)

[Lavender Brown]

13. La Befana

[Throckmorton]

14. Nosferatu

Prove me wrong.

[fluffernutter]

15. Pére Noël

[DS1]

16. no Father Christmas?

:cry:

[nini]

17. Santa Claus

No 'e' at the end :-)

[jdots]

21. Chris Kringle forensic proctologist

Sandy Klause Kinsky German over actor

[da_chimperor]

22. Sinter Klaas, because if you're bad you get a free trip to Spain.

Nice, eh? :D

[the Princess]

25. The Holiday Armadillo????

Just sayin.