And now - I don't want to spoil everybody's weekend - but you should

[neweurope]

stop maybe telling so many things about yourselves.

I know Americans are much more outgoing than others and what I see here proves it. You tell everybody willingly all about yourselves. That is refreshing for a European, I find it quite nice.

But.

PATRIOT II is on you/us, PATRIOT I also and furthermore PNAC. I do NOT think it is a good idea to be too open about who you are, where you live etc.

Be careful. This is now a police state. This should now be remembered always. Please be careful.

Learn to live with the new situation quickly. Don't underestimate anybody and anything.

[Nicole]

1. No one knows me here

This isn't even my real name.

[BeHereNow]

2. Thanks Neweurope...

But we all know they are coming for us one day,
so we are living it up while we can!
We use DU to get to know eachother so
we will have many friends in the camps.
May I repeat my Welcome to DU to you?
BHN

[neweurope]

14. I thank you for the Welcome :)

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. I Lie

and I have a great imagination. And I refuse to live in fear.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. You really think it makes a difference if we identify ourselves?

They can find us through our ISPs. If they decide something you say on an Internet site is treasonous, they'll find you, no matter how little information you divulge.

[Us vs Them]

5. I second this.

Be careful.

[evil genius]

6. where are we going? and why are we in this handbasket?

If not here then where? If not us, who. If not now, when? You cannot stop the children of the revolution.

[baldguy]

7. I'm a bald guy in Buffalo who owns a dog.

Thats about as specific I get.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. If they can't take a joke... or if they can't handle the truth... well

you know what they say... a climate of fear and apprehension is unacceptable. Aina gonna do it. Anyhoo, you can bet your bottom dollar they have the stats on everyone in here... and hopefully when there are MILLIONS of registered users instead of 10's of thousands... we can say... "Here's your sign".

These guys in DC can't even get along with each other... there is dissonance everywhere.... they have enough of their own problems to worry about let alone worry about AMERICAN CITIZENS.

They've got the entire rest of the world to be apprehensive of now that they've dropped our "approval ratings" into the single digits in many of our ALLIED COUNTRIES. Yeah... they have their work cut out for them, and if they continue to perform as they have for the last 4 years, they are going to have to stay after class.

[MatrixEscape]

9. How can they know for sure?

Who is culture jamming by creating a persona or acting one out? ;)

However, that is good advice to a certain degree.

[sadinred]

10. If we can't talk here where can we talk. Our mouths will be sealed

screw them. :puke:

We can't be afraid. They win if we're afraid.

[neweurope]

13. NO!

"They win if we're afraid". That is NOT true.

Fear is a normal and HEALTHY reaction. Without fear which cautions one to be careful all is lost. I didn't say slink under the sofa (even though I'm convinced getting out - getting out NOW! - is the best solution).

I say know what to fear. And be careful.

[sadinred]

15. Yes, but where will it get us in the end?

Sincere question, no sarcasm meant here.

[sadinred]

16. let me rephrase that...

if we are careful what will it leave us? How can we act? Do you propose that we do only what will allow us to remain anonymous? Please explain a little for me.

[KG]

11. i'm not even who i really am, so there's no problem.

[neweurope]

12. Connect the dots. Connect every single item you read and hear.

Please be careful. I'm dumb when it comes to computers unfortunately. But in PNAC they say they want to control the internet also. And they will.

Those who are least careful will have to go first.

You really should get out. This is not a matter of who stole an election any more. This is a

POLICE STATE.

My goodness. You have never experienced it but you have read books and seen movies...


BE CAREFUL PLEASE.

[Up2Late]

17. neweurope guy, I don't think you quite get...

the REAL Bush agenda.

Big Tax Cuts + Massive Military Spending + Big time Pork to the
"Red States"+ another 2 Trillion Dollars to make all that "Capital" available to Bush's Wall Street Buddies = $500,000,000,000.00 account deficit = 7,500,000,000,000.00 National Debt = Massive Spending Cuts = no money to pay for Federal Law enforcement (FBI, IRS, ATF, EPA, FDA, FCC, INS, etc.) = fewer Federal "Cops" to track down, serve papers, and prosecute bloggers and web site poster, let alone, White Collar Corporate criminals and people who commit election fraud.:tinfoilhat:

Get it? :evilgrin:

P.S. I didn't include the extra 2 Trillion in my numbers above, because it would be just too painful to think about :hurts:and, as the "President" would tell Ya, "It's just ain't a knowable amount, :shrug:I ain't gonna speculate."

[neweurope]

19. This is the one and only time in my life where I'd just love to be wrong.

I'm not saying they're going to put everybody in the ovens. Even a highly industrialized country needs slave labor.

But here is the voice of dissent. Here they'll start.

[Up2Late]

31. They don't have the manpower...

to torture "terrorist" around the country and the world, AAAAnd track down and round up people like us. This is a huge country (area wise) :pals:

[Philostopher]

18. From what I've seen ...

those who are the most candid are the least likely to have fear of reprisals from posting on DU, even with the information they make available. They're either candid and open about their identities elsewhere -- like, for instance, Will Pitt, who's a published author and, therefore, something of a public figure -- or they live in large cities and only give out so much information, like first names or neighborhoods, so it would be difficult to trace them because they have the safety of numbers and the relative anonymity of population density.

I can't say I'm completely paranoid, or that I'm completely safe ... but I am at least moderately careful. I've stopped linking anything to our personal domain, for instance, and use an anonymous photo server for any photographs I post. I don't use either of my names, nor do I name anybody in my family or anyone I make remarks about who isn't a public figure. I give general information about where I live, because it's difficult to have discussions about issues in my neighborhood without doing that, but I think it might be difficult to track me just by what I post here.

Though I considered posting a picture in the gallery, I decided I'm too candid in some ways in things I say here at DU to have my photo here, too. Not having my face available leaves me a little more room other ways.

Somebody who knew me might figure out who I was, if they wanted to know; for the most part, though, I stopped making those mistakes long before I came here.

I'm more concerned about some wingnut tracking me down and blowing me shit than I am the government. If they want me, they can get me -- I'm sure my IP is logged, and if I didn't want to take any chances at all, I'd unplug from the Internet, dig a hole in the back yard and never do anything at all.

I agree that there's potential for abuse in allowing too much information about you to be available here. People raise this flag often enough, though, that those who really feel compelled to worry already do worry; those who don't feel compelled to worry never will.

[neweurope]

20. Erm yes. Feel kind of rebuked :) But old flags must not necessarily be the

worst...

I meant pretty much what you're already doing. I'm just scared. Not trying to make a nuisance or appear as if I know more than others.

Plumb scared.

[Philostopher]

26. Not saying you were wrong.

You're absolutely right that people should take at least reasonable precautions. More trying to point out what 'reasonable precautions' consist of, so that those who think they're being told not to post anything at all don't misunderstand. There's a big difference between being careful and not posting anything at all -- but you have a good point, some folks aren't as careful.

I worry about it, too -- I worry for others, that they might get 'picked on' outside DU by people who can't stand the thought that people here disagree with them. Maybe it's living where I do -- I deal with enough assholes who don't think I have a right to disagree with them, as it is, and the ostensible 'win' of this election has only made them bolder and meaner in public places.

For those who live in areas where people don't do this to them -- I envy you! I live in a place that's around 50/50, and the 'bottom 50' has plenty of mean jerks in it who'd love to have an excuse to key my car.

[Up2Late]

32. I think it's best just to post a lot of really wacky things

along with the smart stuff, just to confuse "them" and make "them" think that you are just an A-1 NUT JOB! :crazy:

Ya gotta Keep "Them" guessing. :tinfoilhat:

[Philostopher]

37. Oh.

You mean you do that on purpose? That's just sort of the way my posts come out, most of the time...

I don't know -- I have a fairly non sequitur sense of humor in real life, if I ever give myself away, it'll probably be with that!

[Up2Late]

44. Yep, Keep 'em guessing and remember the 5 Rules to avoid indictment

The 5 Rules to avoid going to Prison
(could also be called the O.J. Simpson rules, the ENRON Rules, Bush/Cheney Rules, etc.)

1) Admit Nothing.
2) Deny everything emphatically.
3) Demand Proof
4) Make Counter Accusations
5) Assault the accusers character

Here's is the most recent pre-election example reported by the BBC over several days in Oct. 2004 - The controversy over a huge cache of explosives that have vanished in Iraq has dominated the last days of campaigning in the US elections. Mr Kerry charges President Bush with "incredible incompetence" and "great blunders" over the disappearance of a the explosives. (10/25/04)

:shrug:1) Admit Nothing -- The White House plays down the issue, with spokesman Scott McClellan saying the explosives pose no danger of nuclear proliferation. It is felt that the president has no need to address the issue.(10/25) Scott McClellan countered "These are conventional high explosives that we are talking about. And the president wants to make sure that we get to the bottom of this."
Pentagon officials acknowledge that they cannot at the moment account for the material.(10/26)
Vice-President Dick Cheney raises the possibility the explosives disappeared before US soldiers could secure the site. (10/27)

:wtf:2) Deny everything emphatically -- Donald Rumsfeld said the material was probably taken before the US arrived. He released an image showing trucks at the site just before the war. (10/28) Mr Rumsfeld said in an interview with US station WABC Radio that it was "very likely" Saddam Hussein had moved the munitions to protect them from attack. (10/29) Maj Pearson told reporters: "I did not see any IAEA seals at locations we were looking into." (10/29)

:mad:3) DEMAND Proof -- The officials add that they cannot verify if the explosives have been looted, and say one possible explanation is that the facility was empty before US-led forces arrived, reports the BBC's Nick Childs at the Pentagon. (10/26)

:grr:4) Make Counter Accusations -- President Bush breaks his public silence on the issue and accuses Mr Kerry of making "wild charges"(10/27) Mr Bush broke his silence on the missing explosives - first reported on Monday - by repeating his charge that, if Mr Kerry had been president, Saddam Hussein would still control Iraq and have hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives to share with terrorists.

:evilgrin:5) Assault the accusers character -- ...in his first comments about the missing explosives, Mr Bush said in Pennsylvania that Mr Kerry had jumped to conclusions for political reasons.(10/27) "A political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as commander-in-chief. Unfortunately that is part of a pattern of a candidate who will say anything to get elected," Mr Bush tells a crowd in Pennsylvania.(10/27) :puke:Mr Giuliani says the troops in Iraq, not Mr Bush, bore the responsibility for searching for the explosives. "No matter how you try to blame it on the president, the actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough - didn't they search carefully enough?" (10/28)

[Bouncy Ball]

21. I agree.

No one here knows my real name or anything beyond what state I live in.

I saw a thread a while back in which people were posting their birthdate including year and I kinda cringed. No way would I post mine.

Then again, I think if they want to find you badly enough they will.

It'd be awfully funny, though, for anyone to investigate me. What a waste of time and taxpayer money THAT would be! LOL!

[Placebo]

22. Do you live in the US?

It's really not the police state you portray it as. lol

At least not yet.

[neweurope]

23. Where do you live? NOT in a police state? Wake up! Please!

[noshenanigans]

24. Well, I hope so.

I am sure they will come get me. In fact, I suggest that they storm my home and beat me senseless.

For the ease of the people monitoring my messages, my address is:

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Come in and skull-crack away.

[sadinred]

25. Trolling freepers are warming up their cars right now!!! Map and

bat in hand!

[noshenanigans]

27. That would be the sweetest poetic justice...

Think about it.. a bunch of freepers too stupid to know better beat up the resident of 1600 Pennsylvania.

"Gaw-llee, he shore does have a big howse!"

[sadinred]

28. Right!? n/t

[noshenanigans]

29. Yknow..

I tend to hold off on picking on the freepers (because, as a little blonde girl they could hurt me then make me do their dishes j/k) but that was actually pretty enjoyable.

[Nevernose]

34. Not so funny

Remember what happened to the waiterss who turnes in the Bush daughter for drinking underage? They out maps to her house and death threats up over at FR. Creepy bastards... Some of them realy need to learn how to mellow out.

[sadinred]

40. It's true. They area bit hot headed. BUT if we could harness

that energy!!!!!!!! If we could direct the anger!!!!!!!!! We could control the freeper masses and turn them against each other. How beautiful?

You are right though. The potential of their actions is very unnerving!

[Up2Late]

33. Hey, You live right near the "President"

Wait a minute, :think:is that you Mr. "President?"

[obreaslan]

30. Let 'em come!

My info:

Robert T. Williger
8063 Peacock Ln.
Cleveland, OH 44102






Alright, I'm chicken-shit. I made it up. Whatcha gonna do? :P

[212demop]

35. NewEurope is absolutely right. There was a report on Air America the other

day about the No Fly lists- there are now 20,000 people on it. You might discover you are one of those 20, 000 when you get to the airport to take off, or when you are overseas trying to return to the US. You are not entitled to find out why you are on the list, or to appeal. The names are going to be taken increasingly from any dissenters- this includes people who have protested, written, spoken out against Bush policies- on the internet included.

I'm pretty sure it was Mike Pappantonio who filed the report. And remember, if you don't think you could wind up on that list, even Ted Kennedy did. Imagine all the others who can't pick up the phone and call the house majority leader to get them out of a bind like that. And that happened several months ago. The program has accelerated substantially since then and will continue to. Papp (or whoever it was) suggested civil rights groups might have to set up booths right in airports with legal help for those in immediate need of it.

This is no joke. Don't think being on the internet makes you untraceable.

[amazona]

43. well they'll find me by my flight records

Not because of an anonymous posting on a public bulletin board. It is easy to make someone look sinister if they have visited banking capitals (London, Panama, Nairobi). I think this is why I get some secondary searches. And my bags are always searched. I think "no fly" might be a misnomer in many cases, it is more that you have to get to the airport early to deal with the extra attention. How many of the 20,000 on the "no fly" list are seriously considered possible terrorists? I'm guessing not many and that most are just considered worth looking at for the chance of finding drugs or money.

[Wapsie B]

36. Bullshit.

If they want to find you they'll find you no matter how much or how little information you give them. Furthermore, I don't care for the Lounge to have posts like this. This belongs in GD. I come here to escape crap like this once in awhile.

[American Tragedy]

38. I appreciate your warning neweurope, but I am not afraid

I don't believe I reveal too much personal information, but I question if any investigators would need much if they really wanted to trace my location.

I've already expressed my opinion very clearly in a newspaper using my real name anyway.

Look, I do not remotely fit any reasonable profile of a terrorist. If the government strikes against me in any respect, it will only give me great ammunition against them with the media. I would relish the opportunity.

I have no faith in the administration, but I do believe in the power of public opinion. I will tell the whole world and never shut up about it. In the end it would hurt them a thousand times more than it hurts me.

If you are reading this, Agent Mike, I dare you to try it.

By the way, I found your comment about Americans being more outgoing very interesting. I hope that we don't come across as overly self-absorbed in our rambling about our own lives.

[neweurope]

39. Didn't know this is the wrong place. Can the mods please move it?

American Tragedy: They are going to be able to find anybody they will. Very quickly. When you have the ID cards it will be very easy. But the more careful people are the less likely it is that they will come for you.

Of course they won't get everybody. They'll get just enough for everybody to be so afraid that there won't be any more resistance. This isn't the first time something like this happens in the world, look around you. Why do you all think it will be different in the US?

And of course they won't come for you to-morrow. Takes time to set all that up. It's 1933 right now - but they're moving real fast. I pray that you all safely reach the year 1945.

"Look, I do not remotely fit any reasonable profile of a terrorist. If the government strikes against me in any respect, it will only give me great ammunition against them with the media." - Which media??! Which profile? Haven't you even read that everything and everybody can now be called "terrorist"? Nobody will even be allowed to know where you'll be??!

"I hope that we don't come across as overly self-absorbed in our rambling about our own lives." Not here, of course. But Europeans usually do think that the USA are very US-centered. Found one example here: The history group. In Europe that would be called "History" (perhaps with subdivisions) because for us history like politics of the day means always interaction and does never stop at a country's borders. Here it's called "US History".

[WritersBlock]

41. Have to agree with NewEurope, but then I'm told that I'm paranoid.

Also, if you have your own domain name, you probably already know this, but if it's listed in your profile as your homepage URL, anyone can easily find out your name, address, and phone number.

[mattclearing]

42. I want to live in the open. If something happens to me, people will know.

We should not be afraid. Transparency is freedom. We demonstrate our freedom by the way we choose to live. If we are punished for living out our freedom, that will show others how free we truly are.

Think Tiananmen Square. Or Gandhi. If I am not free, then I shall live freely and suffer for it willingly.

If I only get one chance to live this life, I choose to make it count, and I trust that the cosmos will sort out any retribution that comes my way.