my kid wants "grand theft auto"

[knowbody0]

for xmas. i viewed it. i will not be purchasing it. he says he plays it all the time at his friends' houses.
here is my question. WTF? im really bothered that kids are entertained by this and that parents allow it. (he is 13)

[VTdem]

1. Yea its a pretty dirty game.

[JohnKleeb]

2. you mean he wants the original 2D version

Sorry couldn't resist. I am not one for advice on parenting but if he's mature enough, I'd get it for him. Ive been playing games like that since I was 10-11.

[knowbody0]

7. he is just getting hair on his little upper lip

and i am possibly over reacting. in your opinion, is this a good way to vent the pent up stuff inside a kid? (single mom)

[JohnKleeb]

11. hmmmmmm

I got my first game with moderate violence when I was 11, it was Metal Gear Solid, and frankly that game taught me a lot about the cold war. I would get him it honestly, Ive been playing games like that since I was really young and I am not a problem in school honestly. It's a nice way to vent, and it has some great satire and humor in it as well.

[nickgutierrez]

85. OTT a bit, but Metal Gear Solid was amazing for exactly this reason

Amidst the shooting and killing was a clear message: War is hell, and there are no heroes, just a bunch of people trying to stay alive.

[JohnKleeb]

86. Yep, the third one is amazing too

I cant believe I first played that game when I was 11.

[CTLawGuy]

90. GTA also has adult themes in it

like prostitution, strip clubs, though no actual nudity ( I dunno about GTA: San Andreas.) So if you have a problem with sexual themes, id stay away...

I personally enjoy playing the games, but Im 23.

[HEyHEY]

3. A 13-year-old boy entertained by violence? NO WAY!

;-)

[JohnKleeb]

4. Yeah when I was 13, I was playing umm

you know I forgot what came out in 2000.

[UdoKier]

53. When I was 13, we played Space Invaders and Pac-Man

The stuff that is out now is either confusing as hell or horrifying to me, for the most part.

[sonicx]

5. If i had a kid, i'd buy it for em if they were 15.

probably not under that.

[mark414]

6. if you trust that your child

is intelligent enough to separate the video game from reality, then no harm done

it's a great game and just gets better with time

[knowbody0]

10. thanks mark. the kid is awesome

[mark414]

15. no problem

i've been playing all sorts of violent video games for as long as i can remember (i'm 19)

and i turned out pretty good

it always blows my mind when i see parents group out protesting or calling for boycotts of games like this...haven't they learned anything from history? doing that only makes the kids want to play it more...my parents never made a big deal of it, and made sure to explain the fact that it was only a game, even though they did trust me to make that judgement for myself...just your asking this question makes you sound like a good, concerned parent, and you have every right to be, so i'm sure your kid will be fine.

[JohnKleeb]

16. they try to the same things with books and I am on the frontline here

against that. Hell I played my first mortal kombat game when I was like I dunno around 7.

[mark414]

20. word up kleeb

we gotta stand up against this...man i will defend those games till the day i die

[JohnKleeb]

23. its first amendment rights

To tell everyone the truth, I actually have become a huge supporter of veterans benefits because of what Ive done in games such as Medal of Honor and Call of Duty. God they are so touching at times.

[mark414]

24. i know exactly what you mean

as ridiculous as it sounds, playing those games, you realize FUCK! war is nuts! real people actually went through this???

it can open your eyes

[JohnKleeb]

28. Its something a lot of people don't get

but I remember this level in Medal of Honor: Frontline, it's the beginning of Operation Market Garden, me(Lt Jimmy Patterson) lands safely next to Corporal Barnes who is a member of the 82nd airborne, and there's a guy stuck in a windmill with his parachute on, "Hey Jimbo, can I have a little help here", and then he gets shot by a German who you can't shoot. Its sad, then we meet up with Pfc Langeau who while you don't have to protect him, I always try to save, because even though he's just a polygon, I feel an obligation to save him. The Brits in the Arnhem Knights level too, that level is always powerful. Something about those games, man it really does make me respect it, and yes I enjoy it, and it makes me wish I could see it through their eyes.

[warrens]

21. Besides, think of all the new cars you could have

It's just a game. Most kids are smart enough to realize it's actually pretty funny.

[mark414]

26. ha

man you should see my garage(s) in vice city. i've got 10 of everything!

[JohnKleeb]

32. heh in GTA III I had an ability to get just about every car

then my damn brother saved over the game.

[msgadget]

79. Absolutely,

as long as he's not the kind to get sucked in and do nothing but play the game, I wouldn't worry too much. Either way, he'll see it and play it elsewhere and making too big a deal out of it just makes it that much more attractive.

[AutumnMist]

8. All I Can Really Say

Is don't buy it for younger kids. My niece brought her game system and the Grand Theft Auto game over when she visited us. She is 12. The fact that she thought stealing cars, guns and explosions were cool led me to unplug it. Her mother wasn't very happy with me. But I really didn't care. Who wants these games for KIDS (not adults if you choose)as a favorite past time? Damn, I sure don't. My 3 year old never saw it....I made sure of it. Thank Goodness.

[Carni]

52. I LOVE the Sopranos...

But I have yet to take someone I do business with and run them through a sausage grinder...I guess to me it's just entertainment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. How old are you?

Age does make a difference. That is why TV shows and movies have ratings.

[Carni]

120. I am old enough to get into an NC17 movie unaccompanied

I would never advocate grand theft auto for a young child... but on the other hand grand theft auto is a hell of a lot less vilolent than what is really going on in the news these days.

JMO... but what good does it do to shelter and insulate teenagers against violence when the structure they are supposed to trust and admire is just frothing at the mouth to ship them over to Iraq?

I guess ultimately it depends on the kid and their level of maturity as to whether or not they can handle these graphic video games.

[Deja Q]

9. I am 32. Played it when I was 31. Trust me,

it can corrupt. It becomes tempting because it's so close to reality in its presentation. Other shoot-em-up games have the benefit of being in an unrealistic or sci-fi setting. That makes a HUGE difference.

[JohnKleeb]

13. hey they have some FPS that take place in the past

namely the WWII which I love.

[UdoKier]

12. I'd much rather give my 6 yr old a Penthouse mag

Than a game about murdering whores and bums.

Sick beyond belief.

[JohnKleeb]

14. umm its not about murdering whores and bums

It does have a story to it and in fact the protagonist is trying to avenge the murder of his mother and brother.

[DS1]

19. Once upon a time, there was a lovely young whore named Angela

She shacked up with a bum named Kleeb, and with their hot plate and welcome mat, they lived happily ever after until someone ran over their cardboard home with a Hummer while fleeing the Feds with 4 stars on his head.

[JohnKleeb]

22. heh

yes but then the guy went in to a pay and spray.

[DS1]

25. And then came back out and shot down the police chopper

with a rocket launcher, and ran back INTO the pay and spray

[JohnKleeb]

29. heh then went to ammunation

[knowbody0]

34. hey johnkleeb

just talked to the kid. here's what he said:
first time i played, it made my gut tickle wierd like, then it didn't. i love playing it and just want to beat my friends by practicing. da, like i'd really steal a car or shoot any one.

[JohnKleeb]

37. how do you beat people in it

If you wanna know the truth about me, its that I hate guns and am even some what of a pacifist. Its very enjoyable, and the jokes are hilarious.

[DS1]

46. You beat people by pulling off the most spectacular stunts or

creating the most havoc imaginable, it's great fun - such a stress relief

[slutticus]

82. I can play all night just trying to get six stars and survive...

...And I NEVER wuss out in the Pay 'N Spray!!!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

136. As long as your kid knows truth from fiction...

It's not a big deal. Just buy the kid the game. But not San Andreas. It's far too adult.
Duckie

[CTLawGuy]

91. I wish they had pay and sprays in real life

and they cost 100 bucks no matter what the damage to your car.

And you could get it fixed instantly without having to leave the car.

[JohnKleeb]

92. yeah heh don't we all

[CTLawGuy]

97. on that note

I think we should ban GTA on the grounds that it teaches kids that car repairs are quick and cheap. We can't have them holding that impression. ;)

[JohnKleeb]

99. hah excellent

[mark414]

17. have you ever played any of the GTA games?

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

27. I honestly thank Mark and John for your opinions. I am in exact situation

13 y/o who loves the game. I really aired more on the opinion of you two and was a little nervous to see what the reactions would be. It's actually opened conversation about controversial subjects. He and I can talk very openly about that sort of thing.

I've let him get it for weeks on his Game Pass... :shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

31. No problem

Its really a fine game, and there's more than just shooting people in GTA.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

35. Not to mention it's re-assuring to know that others who've played did

not grow up to be sociopaths. ;)

[mark414]

41. haha

it seems like the more violent the game the more i love it. it's the same way with anime...i only watch the really really violent stuff.

but i'm a good kid i swear! i think violence sucks, i'll never own a gun, and i'm a straight A college student (and a good liberal)!

[JohnKleeb]

45. oh and I hate guns

I only get in fights with my brother, heh I am almost a good student in HS, but really, there's all sorts of gamers.

[JohnKleeb]

42. hah

It really is a godo escape, I am telling you, you actually do learn a lot from some of these games.

[UdoKier]

30. We don't own video games at all.

That was exactly how this game was described to me. You steal a car and drive around running down various pedestrians and killing randomly. It's supposedly very gory and crude.

My kids have strictly educational games on the computer.

Like I said, Id' rather my kids learn to love a woman's anatomy than how to mutilate it.

[mark414]

33. dude

you've only had it described to you and you're passing judgement?

didn't john mccain do something like that at the RNC? only with a movie instead of a video game...

[JohnKleeb]

36. Yes, he did

[UdoKier]

40. Does it NOT involve killing innocent people on the street?

If it doesn't, I'll take it back.

I KNOW what's in Penthouse. I can handle that. What little I've seen of the violent games, I have hated, and I'm sorry, but I don't want to see anymore, and I don't want my kids growing up any more inured to that than they have to be. I certainly don't want them mentally playing out the roles of thugs and killers, even if they are killing "out of revenge".

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

43. But, to call those who don't share your high moral standards "sick

beyond belief". Or even if you weren't calling the PEOPLE that, but implying that a game you'd never seen is.... don't you think that's a bit elitist? :shrug:

[UdoKier]

48. I called the game that.

And I think kids who play games like that would be more likely to be violent as adults.

Since you didn't address the question, is it safe to assume that it IS a game where the player assumes the role of a thug and recreational killer?

You can call me what you like. I think games like that are as bad as snuff films. Blech.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

54. No, read John and Mark's messages for the plot. I just think that you

seem to be extremely judgmental of something of which you've only heard, not seen yourself. Like the guys said, it's possible that this game does not negatively form or shape the person who plays it. I trust the way I have raised my child. At 13, he DOES know reality from fiction and games vs. life. If you read my above posts, it has opened dialog.

Not all parents or kids can handle this... NO WAY. All parents need to decide for themselves. But, believe it or not, there are people who don't share your opinion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. I am a teacher

I teach 10 year olds. They all love this game. I checked it out. It is incredibly violent and I wouldn't allow a kid younger than 13 or 14 to play it.

For you young kids who love video games, you need to know there is a connection between playing these games and an increased tendency towards violence. Just because you haven't gone out and stolen cars and shot people after playing this game doesn't mean no one will. There has been lots of research on this and it does not paint a pretty picture. There is a risk of desensitizing (sp?) kids and making them believe this kind of violent behavior is okay. The younger the player, the greater the risk. I don't find this game acceptable for 10 year olds. I have taught this age group for 25 years and I just don't think they are ready for this game anymore than they are ready to become Penthouse readers.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

121. In one of my courses in college

the professor made us a read a very scathing attack on how the "current art" and media was desensitizing people (especially children) to all sorts of violence and how it needed to be outlawed immediately. The writer had written quite a screed about how corrupting the "current art" was.

After we had digested and discussed the various merits and drawbacks of the author's argument, our professor revealed to us that the screed had been written by a bishop living in England in the 1600s. The subject of his screed (which had been expurgated from the version that we were reading) was one Mr. William Shakespeare.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not comparing the good folks at RockStar to Shakespeare (nor GTA to Hamlet, by extension); however, I typically find that the arguments claiming that artistic expressions are "bad" or "corrupting" seem to hinge around the idea that the viewer of the art is incapable of realizing that what he is viewing is NOT real.

This was one of the bishop's arguments (he believed that the audience actually believed that people were being killed on stage), and it is one that frequently comes up when I hear people rail against violence in video games. Children of a certain age (without severe mental disturbances) are, I believe, readily able to tell that the polygons on their TV screens are not real and that the situations depicted are a little absurd and fantastical, to say the least.

Just my two cents...

[mark414]

44. technically no

you CAN kill innocent people, but then the cops chase you. whenever you do something bad the cops come after you. there are repercussions for negative actions.

but there is nothing in the game that makes killing civilians essential to winning, quite the contrary actually.

regardless, it's still pretty ignorant to judge something you've never seen.

i'm sorry you feel so threatened by a video game.

[JVS]

47. You can kill several bystanders before the cops come

and you can take the money off of the people you kill. Generally killing as many people as possible is encouraged in the game. Fun, but by no means some kind of way to teach about the consequences of actions.

[UdoKier]

51. It doesn't threaten me.

But when I was a kid that age, the most sociopathic thing I was ever exposed to was possibly the rumors of Ozzy peeing on the Alamo and biting off a bat's head. The games at the time were very simple, unrealistic, and never put the player in the position of being a killer.

And it's not being ignorant to judge it. There are a lot of games I would not object to, and I wouldn't buy them for my kids either. It's a huge waste of money and my kids' time when they could be outside in the fresh air doing something active, or studying.

[name not needed]

64. You could actually get a whole bunch of old games for cheap.

It's only 60 bucks, if you'd want to buy it for your kids. It's basically a controller and game cartridge you plug into your TV, and it has about 100 games from the 80's and early 90's, such as Contra, Duck Hunt, Paperboy, and some other stuff. I found one they sold a few months ago that's only 20.

http://www.softwareandstuff.com/CES10438.html

[WMliberal]

70. unless you put the riot code on

and arm them with uzis. Then killing them is QUITE essential. Of course, in such case, there is no such thing as an innocent bystander.

[LifeDuringWartime]

69. you can do that if you want

it's completely open-ended. follow the story line, which often involves stupid little errands, or go on a killing spree.

[CTLawGuy]

93. you dont have to drive around randomly killing people

you can CHOOSE to, but its not necessary to finish the game. You dont even have to break the traffic rules, it just helps.

there are missions where you pick up injured people and bring them to the hospital, or steal a fire truck and put out fires, or drive people around in taxis to make money.

[rocktop15]

106. VIOLENT GAMES DO NOT MAKE VIOLENT KIDS

It is as simple as that. If your kid is already violent, then the game will not make him any more/any less violent. Shooting up schools had nothing to do with a videogame. That is akin to saying that the Beatles White Album should be banned because it made some crazy, whacked out psycho strung out on LSD command a bunch of crazy, whacked out kids on LSD to go murder a family. Circular logic that doesn't work out well.

[progressivebydesign]

61. Absolutely.

If you kill the prostitute, you get out of paying her. Lovely for kids to learn. Parents are so screwed up now.. sheesh.

[slutticus]

81. You only have to murder the whores if they take your money.

Personally, I prefer taking the pimps out. Well...I smack them up first and then take their money.

I get especially brutal if I find a customer messing with one of my ladies...


But serieously...it's just a game...

[UdoKier]

94. Just a sick, depraved game.

Not appropriate for teens.

And to be fair, I don't think shows like "Survivor" that teach that screwing your fellow human being over is the only way to get ahead, are suitable either.

A lot of people freak about curse words or nudity or gore. To me, it's ALL about the context. If it was a gory game where you are a soldier killing Nazi stormtroopers to free the inmates of Dachau, it would bother me a LOT less.

[huellewig]

109. I have never played the game.. (I have a Macintosh)

Fine, don't let your kids play it. I don't really care. Try to avoid telling us what our kids should play and watch. My kids know bullets tear flesh. If you think these games will fuck up your kids the odds are your kids are fucked up already.

[UdoKier]

126. Wow. And people call ME judgmental.

nt

[Fenris]

18. Okay, here's my honest opinion

Since he said he plays it all the time at his friends' houses, I have to assume that whether or not you purchase the game he's going to play it anyway. So either you get it and he plays it at home, by himself, or you don't by and he plays it at a friends house. He plays the game either way.

The question I suppose is whether you want to spend money on something you don't like him playing. And that's up to you. Kids are entertained by "Grand Theft Auto" the way kids a decade ago were entertained by the moral scourge that was "Mortal Kombat." I understand parental outrage at this, but I never came across any kid my age that tried to rip someone's spine out or impale them, and no one I knew thought it was acceptable behavior. What it does is focus a child's imagination and create an alternative reality in which those things are championed. What kids didn't like playing cowboys and Indians, or pretending to be soldiers in a war with other kids? It's the same idea, only the medium has changed. Sure, it's gotten more realistic, but remember, 1000 years ago little Viking children were planting axes in eachother's heads if they thought they were cheated in a game. I think we've come along way. "GTA" has existed for a while now, and I have yet to hear of a boy running a friend over with his parent's car because he wanted to emulate the game.

Just my 2 cents.

[knowbody0]

50. i understand.

i remember the mortal kombat stuff and wondered what effect it would have on a generation of kids. then i think of them in the gulf war and in iraq and think, were they desensitized? that's all. my son is a 3.0, in track and wrestling, has lots of friends, has never been in trouble and i trust him loads.

[Fenris]

55. I'm not trying to say that people can't be desensitized.

I think it's holy dependent on the personality of the person playing the game. It can have a numbing effect. But if you trust your son and if he is wise enough to have a 3.0 and be committed to extracirricular activities, I think he can handle a game like that. But it is all dependent upon what you think. Your son sounds like he's mentally stable and morally balanced enough to handle it.

:hi: Didn't mean to preach or anything. I just have a hard time buying the "video games lead to violent kids" argument. I've been playing them since I was a wee one and have never been in a fight. :)

[UdoKier]

65. But just think...

Without the time and synapses and attention span wasted on video games, he might have a 3.5 or 4.0 gpa...

[progressivebydesign]

67. I suppose the volumes of research on kids and violent behavior mean squat?

Wow... I can always count in DU to be right there helping out the parents. DU is NOT the place to ask about these games.. most of the people here play them, and they AREN"T childhood experts, teacher, nor psychologists.. hell, most of the people advocating this stuff aren't parents. TALK to a teacher at your kid's school... or a family member, don't ask people on a public board about it..

[sonicx]

73. every kid isn't the same. nt

[Tyrone Slothrop]

122. Should we ask the teachers and school board in NC

who are instructing children that slavery wasn't really that bad for their opinion?

They certainly seem like stand-up individuals to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Remember that 12 year old kid who killed that 6 year old

girl in Florida a few years back? They just released him on parole? There was a discussion about him here on DU a week or so ago.

He was an avid viewer of wrestling on TV and thought he was just playing with this little girl. So yes, watching violence on TV can indeed influence kids. We see it at school all the time. I am one of many teachers who are thrilled to see the wrestling fad die off.

So yes, it can happen. Just because you don't know anyone who ripped off anyone's spine or tried to impale anyone doesn't mean there is no risk of this kind of behavior after playing this game. And I for one would rather err on the side of caution.

[Fenris]

60. That was wrestling.

It involved real people doing actual moves. GTA is a collection of polygons that are supposed to represent something. And is it possible that that little boy could have been presdisposed to that sort of behavior?

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. But video games are pretty realistic

And sure this kid was probably predisposed to that sort of behavior. But how did we find out he was likely to kill someone? AFTER he had killed that little girl!! I for one am not willing to take that risk.

There really is a lot of research on this. And video games really can make kids more prone to violent behavior.

[sonicx]

77. that's why the predisposed kids should have restrictions

and you don't need a murder to find out if a kid is at risk, btw.

[CTLawGuy]

96. all rapists have penises

therefore rape is caused by having a penis...


imagine if adolf hitler hadnt played all those violent video games...

[progressivebydesign]

63. Frankly, I think that you need to talk to the other parents about it..

.. what the HELL are they doing allowing your kid to play a game that you are NOT comfortable with??? As a parent of a Jr. High kid, ALL my kids friend's parents are in contact with one another, and WE ALWAYS check with each other about WHAT standards are there for movies, etc., for the kids. THEY KNOW that an M game is totally off limits, as are "R" rated movies. Just because some lame-ass parent lets their kid play GTA, does not mean you should just accept it...

[JVS]

38. If he can play it all the time at his friends house, why should you...

waste good money on it? Tell him that he convinced you that he doesn't need the game.

[Renew Deal]

39. It's not a good game for a 13 year old.

[Imperialism Inc.]

49. My son was similar.

I knew he had played it. He even tried to trick his way in to getting it by telling grandma about it, assuming she wouldn't know. She didn't. But once she bought it told her no way.
Of course, to each their own but I didn't think it was appropriate for a 13 year old.

[progressivebydesign]

59. Don't listen to those that admonish that you haven't 'played the game'..

I wasn't there for the Columbine masacre, but I still know it's wrong and violent. Just because a parent hasn't played a violent game doesn't mean that they are forbidden from passing judgement on it. If it has an M rating.. then don't buy it for your underage kid. Simple as that. It blows me away that some people actually want their children to consider VIOLENCE as fucking entertainment. Unbelievable.

[mark414]

66. um...

you're comparing a real life event to a VIDEO GAME

remember how everyone bashed john mccain because he bashed F911 without actually seeing it??? it's the same thing, passing judgement on something that you have absolutely NO knowledge of.

that's plain ignorant

it is a beautiful game and i love it and i am very healthy, mentally socially psychologically and everything else

quit hatin

[progressivebydesign]

68. Beautiful game?? Yeah.. whatever.. n/t

[sonicx]

72. you never watched R-rated movies when you were a kid?

[UdoKier]

76. Even with violent R-rated movies, the normal tendency is to identify...

...with the good guys, not the wanton killers. That's my biggest problem with this game.

I didn't see R-rated movies until about age 14 or 15.

[JohnKleeb]

78. you sure about that exactly?

Ive seen the Godfather and you identify with the Corleones big time.

[sonicx]

80. the 'good guys' in R-rated movies are often liars, cheaters, and kill for

revenge or unnessesarily. and many times, people do like or root for the 'bad guys.'

[baba]

62. Hell no, don't give him that horrible game.

It is not only appallingly violent, but racist and misogynist as well.

[makhno]

74. How is it racist?

I could more readily agree with the misogyny charge, with the player's ability to become a pimp, but there are strong, positive female characters in GTA as well.

I really don't think the game singles out any particular stereotype for abuse. It does have a few non-PC moments, but the overall message isn't one of racism or misogyny.

[Sandpiper]

71. Delete

[Carson]

83. Last week, my 9 year old came back from a play date

and told me all about this "really cool game" his friend (who's also 9) had.

The game turned out to be Grand Theft Auto.

I was very unhappy to know my child had been playing this game and can't help but wonder what the other parent was thinking by letting them play it.

I've made up my mind that next time my son goes to his friend's house, I'll tell the mother I would appreciate it if she wouldn't get that particular game out. I'll say it nicely, of course.

Question for any parents out there, would this offend you? I certainly do not want to upset this woman but I also do NOT want my child playing that game.

[sonicx]

87. i think it's a good idea.

make sure you ask the mother if she knew about the content of the game.

[Champ]

89. Don't let him go over there

if you're so concerned about him playing the game. It is probaly the daughter's game and I wouldn't recommend suggesting to her to put the game up when her son is around, your son will want to play with it over there. Not because of the violence, there are many violent video games that are not fun to play at all. As far as what she was thinking? She probaly was thinking it was fake, not real, harmless if acts weren't re-enacted in actual life. It is a really cool game for MANY reasons that anyone who likes video games, WILL LIKE this game because it offers more then any video game out there. I've played GTA3 and Vice City for hours and enjoyed myself, I won't even lay a finger on someone for my personal amusement. Im not telling you what you should allow your child to, but keeping him away from the game who not make him dislike it, he has played it once and liked it. He will always like it the chances he does get a chance to play it and I'm sure he is a good kid.

I think what is missing here are the ones bashing GTA are ones not really into video games that much and don't understand the underlying appeal. The ones who are for it played the game and understand the appeal and it isn't about going out and killing as many animated characters as you can. This wouldn't offend me, the mother is obviously not worried about what games her child is exposed too as well as many parents. But then again I'm not a parent, but even if I was my answer would still be the same.

[Champ]

84. It's a fun game to spend hours on

Unlike most games you have freedom to wander like no other game has. It is a violent video game but I look at it the way the same I look at movies. They're not entertained by the fact you can kill as many people as you can, you can get into any type of car you want and ride it around it around anywhere. It is a complete game that gives you alot of freedom, if you play other games you are very limited as to what you can do. You can't classify the game into a single category, driving game, action, adventure, rpg(maybe) the game is all that into one. It is the most entertaining series of games I've played next to the Madden series, not because I'm able to to kill, there are hundreds of games that give that ability that I have no interest in playing, but because it allows you do so much that other games can't. It is the #1 selling game and there isn't public chaos so I wouldn't worry too much about content, if a kid even thinks about killing because of a video game there is obviously bigger problems.

[Carson]

88. I don't necessarily buy into the argument that violent games

will make violent kids. However, to what purpose would one want to fill a young, impressionable child with video games (or movies even) of that ilk? Just because he/she wants them? Because other parents let them play? What good can come out of it?

I've seen other responses here about "it's a great release." What kind of child needs to kill people on a game for "release?" Release from what? Hey kids, if you get stressed, instead of doing something positive, go shoot/maim/kill!

I think, all around, it sends a bad message. Personally, I abhor the language on some games marketed for kids. Call me a Puritan but I don't want my child thinking it's "cool" to emulate some of those characters.

[Champ]

95. Here is my response

What good can come out of it?

Probaly about as much good as playing any video game, for personal entertainment.

I've seen other responses here about "it's a great release." What kind of child needs to kill people on a game for "release?" Release from what? Hey kids, if you get stressed, instead of doing something positive, go shoot/maim/kill!
I think it is a great release because of how fun the game is like someone will shoot a basketball to get their mind off things, you can spend hours exploring and doing many things, like I said there is SOOOOO much more then "shoot/maim/kill!" But I prefer kids releasing in a video game instead of at a high school with assault rifles.


Call me a Puritan but I don't want my child thinking it's "cool" to emulate some of those characters.
Your child likely thinks the game is cool is because in the latest one there are 3 pretty big cities as well as countryside to explore, that is something that is UNHEARD of when it comes to video games. The game has a well written story line that packs in a few surprises here and there and there is so much you have to complete so you will never get bored playing this game. It is the best video game series ever because of so much it expands on that other games don't, anyone who likes to play video games will like playing GTA.

As far as bad message, you shouldn't have to worry about messages from this video game influencing your child. If you're effective at teaching your child what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior in the real world then you should be able to trust him to know that some of the stuff he can do in a video game are not things he can do in real life. I however do agree 9 may be a bit young but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be, I seen Casino 5 times by the time I was 12 and grew up just fine, that movie is very violent. I think the game is fine for anyone over 12. Anyone over 12 has been exposed to violence in one form or another, clearly knows the difference between make believe and reality, and pretty much know the basic (stealing, fighting, killing, etc is wrong) laws of the land. I have played the game for some years now and I have no criminal record whatsoever, I was charged for something minor but had the charge dropped after 10 hours of Community Service. I don't consider myself a cancer to society as well as many GTA gamers who don't re-enact what they did in GTA in real life.

on edit: If you have problem with some of the adult themes in the video game I understand why you choose to not let your kid play it, most 9 year olds are too immature for some of the adult themes featured in the game. There is no nudity that I know of but they have strip clubs and you can pick up prostitutes,(all you see is the car go up and down) but those who play the game didn't pay $50 just to see a car go up and down so that part of the game is not the appeal, but can understand if you don't want a 9 year old to exposed to such themes.

[UdoKier]

98. To be fair - I don't think a lot of time playing ANY video game is good

for kids. I think they tend to be addictive and counterproductive in terms of education.

I think young teens' time is much better spent on educational, athletic and social pursuits. I would hope that at age 13, my son won't have enough free time between his other activities to fritter away on something like a video game.

[Champ]

100. Niether do I

My point was there was so much you can do that you won't get bored with it easily. I agree on all those but if a kid has no homework, no games to attend, and is home GTA is a fun game to play with nothing to do. I haven't played video games for awhile because I sold ones I didn't play anymore(pretty much completed and explored GTA 3 and Vice City entirely) but I like to play video games when I'm home during my free time. I agree it shouldn't come first before the things you have mentioned, I don't see anything I disagree with in your post :hi:

[UdoKier]

101. Except that you think it's appropriate for kids.

*If* I gave my kids video games (I intend not to, and have all the grandparents on board), this is about the last one I would get my kid.

But I don't want them playing them at all. They have a few simple ones on the computer and that is enough. I just don't think this game, as you and others who have played it describe it, is appropriate for young teens or pre-teens.

By the way, there are a very large proportion of teens who seldom if ever play video games at all. The peer pressure to do so is far from overwhelming. At least that's the case where I live. I suppose some areas of the country don't offer kids much to do...

[Champ]

102. No

Not really appropriate but I feel that a young teen is mature enough to handle the content. There is nothing in the game they haven't been exposed to already by the news, movies, tv, etc. I don't think a teen that has responsible, caring parents will become a violent criminal from playing GTA. I sure didn't, but it is your choice to decide what to give to your kids, not mine.

I don't really think there is peer pressure to play video games, when a kid at any age sees a video game it looks like an entertaining thing. Kids love to have fun whether that is riding a bike, using their imagination, or whatever. But why do you assume kids who play video games don't have anything to do? It is possible for a teen to wake up, go to school, attend any after school activities, spend some time with friends, come home, do homework, eat dinner, play some video games, go to sleep.

[Carson]

104. The primary reasoning for the "pro-GTA" responses seems to be...

"I played that game (or games like it) as a child and/or a young teen and I turned out fine!"

I cannot dispute that statement. These people may very well be fine, upstanding, law-abiding, intelligent adults; I'll take them at their word. However, this isn't very good logic as to why I should let my child play the video game. Not all sexually-molested children grow up to be serial killers either. (That's probably a horrible analogy but my point is these things can't always be predicted.)

Why expose impressionable minds to it in the first place? Why take the chance?

I honestly can't see an acceptable reason to let my child (at any under-18 age) play these types of games.

[UdoKier]

127. Exactly. I saw my first XXX-rated porno at age 15.

And I think I turned out fine, but I don't think I would BUY one for my kid.

(And I'm much less bothered by what goes on in porno movies than in this kind of game.)

[barb162]

103. why get any kid something with that level of violence? To me

the message it sends is that you approve if you get it for him. If parents keep buying this trash, the manufacturers will keep making more of it. (just like SUVs, if nobody buys those gas guzzlers, which car maker would keep making them)

[rocktop15]

105. I'm 19......let the kid have it

and I have played tons of video games in my day, and this is, by far, the dirtiest of them all. But, I say, let him play it. Video games do not affect people as far as I'm concerned. My parents let me play any game I wanted to while I was growing up and I am just fine. I cuss a lot but that means, essentially, nothing.

[American Tragedy]

111. Likewise.

Ironically, when I was a kid I had the most conservative lifestyle of any of my friends (still do in fact), despite the fact that their parents were far more restrictive in every imaginable respect. It's funny, because years ago when their parents found out how liberal and permissive my mother and father were, they immediately dubbed us as a "bad influence", until they discovered that their own children were having sex and involved in drugs and crime, and I was virtually clean.

[seaglass]

107. Both of my kids have wanted the game at some point and they

have both played the game over a friend's house. They are now 13 and 15. I'm not buying or renting them an "M" rated game.

Luckily for me, my kids want other stuff too and they do not get everything they want. I don't have a problem saying no.

When my daughter was 10 she was at a birthday party sleepover and the mother rented R rated movies for the kids entertainment.

Some parents just have different standards than others and some parents are just clueless.

[Midlodemocrat]

108. I totally agree with you.

I won't let me son watch/have it, and I don't allow him to play it at other people's homes either. He can only play video games at homes where I know Mom/Dad is paying attention.

[American Tragedy]

110. Hey, it's good family fun : )

Grand Theft Auto has become a sort of bizarre Christmas tradition at my house. My parents and siblings and I always get the latest edition of the game and pass the controller around the table to see who can cause the most chaos.

However, all of us are authentic bleeding-heart pacifistic liberals who don't even have the heart to shoot an animal, much less a human being. My brother cried when he saw a cow slaughtered.

I understand your concern, but much of it has to do with how you present media to children, IMO. From the time I was a small child, I was taught that there is an important disconnect between the simulated violence on film and in my games, and the permanence and injustice of real human suffering. That's how we are able to laugh when watching a slasher movie, yet weep when seeing the pictures of children bleeding in Fallujah.

I sometimes wish that men in the government like Lieberman had such perspective.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

116. Very well written. Everyone is different, and has different standards and

beliefs, ESPECIALLY when it comes to parenting. Opinions are like assholes, we all have one. One important note is however, that a few people in this threat seemed to be extremely judgmental regarding the choices that other parents make.

As someone who agrees with you, I think others clearly have a right to disagree and make a contrary decision with their own kids; but please stop implying that those of us whose opinions differ are somehow bad parents. I am sure Kleeb and Mark will tell us that, in addition to them 'turning out OK', their parents are probably exceptional on every level. In fact, I think that those of us who trust ourselves and our children with matters of this nature probably have a better than average relationship with our kids. I know I do.

[American Tragedy]

119. That is not what I meant to imply, though

I'm sorry if I did. In fact, I was really struggling to find a way to express my opinion without inadvertantly making the argument that those who did otherwise must have failed.

Regardless of the games and movies to which your children are exposed, they must be taught the difference between media and reality at some point. In the modern world, everyone eventually has to learn to distinguish the pseudo-ethics depicted in contemporary media microcosm, and true morality by which we live. It is unavoidable.

What I found is that some wise individuals teach their kids about the latter by pointing out the logical flaws in the former. My parents used classic cult horror flicks and even the evening news to illustrate this fact, though I didn't realize at the time what they were doing.

They did dissuade me voluntarily from watching certain movies like Jacob's Ladder and the Exorcist until I was a bit older, accurately assuming that I would neither enjoy them nor understand the heavier theological overtones.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

125. I did not AT ALL mean you... others have made blanket "sick" type

comments. Not you. Sorry if I led you think it was directed at YOU!

[trogdor]

112. Good for you!

GTA is mindless, senseless violence, period. There doesn't even seem to be an object of the game, a way to "win" or anything. Just steal cars, bust caps into cops and innocent bystanders, and...um...that's it.

If you need a compromise position, have an X-Box, and don't mind military games, try Halo 2. It's still rated M for violence, but the big difference is, this game is the most fun when played with his friends, either online, or head-to-head. You can even choose up sides and play more elaborate war games. It's like paintball without the mess.

My 15 year old son has his friends come over with their X-Boxes, hooks them together with an Ethernet hub, and has the game playing on all the TV's in the house. They have a blast.

[alexisfree]

153. halo 2 is artificial intelligence...

the game it self it lerns...and change the rules depend on the player...gets to know the player and that is the way it reacts..is scarry because you can't contol the game..the game controls you and besides has a chip that only was use for miltary perpuse, so go figure how thats is going to affect the kids brain, compare to just fraking wandering the strets of LA.

[Beware the Beast Man]

113. I'm 30 and impressionable- it's definitely not a kid's game.

On San Andreas, the newest sequel, the violence has definitely been toned down from previous installments, but they definitely make up for it in sex and profanity.
On the flip side, though, GTA is bar-none the best game of all time in terms of open-endedness.

[The Flaming Red Head]

114. Have you seen San Andreas. You’d have fun with it. Get it for yourself.

nt

[RagingInMiami]

115. I don't have kids, but if I did

I would buy them the games they want because it would keep them at home, where they could invite their friends to play with them, instead out on the streets doing who knows what.
It would give me the opportunity to meet their friends and supervise them in my house.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

117. ** golf clap ***

THANK YOU!

[ZoCrowes]

118. My brother has the game

and I play it every so often (I'm not the gamer I used to be) and I think it really depends on the kid. Some of them can handle the subject matter of the game and take it for what it is. It's a very impressive game no matter which way you cut it. I sometimes play my brothers game just so I can fly around the city. It's pretty amazing what you can do in it.

[RUDUing2]

123. not a game my kids will get either...and we are pretty leniant on

what they read, view, etc...but my kids don't watch wrestling..and don't get games that promote breaking the law as entertaining..

[Forkboy]

124. The game is rated MATURE for a reason

It's not meant for kids 17 and under.Only YOU know your child's maturity level.My nephew plays it (he's 14) and my sister used it as a chance to talk about violence with him.He knows what's fun in a game isn't fun or right in real life.

If you dont get it for your kid that wont make you a fascist :)

[DrWeird]

128. Make sure you don't let him read The Catcher in the Rye either.

It's got prostitutes in it.

[NoSheep]

130. A bit different from being entertained by that game, wouldn't you say?

I don't like to censor, but I think it is sick that people want to be entertained by such garbage. Sorry.:shrug:

[DrWeird]

132. Same principle.

"I'm a stuck up prude, I think everyone else should be one too."

[NoSheep]

135. I'm far from a stuck up prude. Very far. I just think speaking out is

important.

[DrWeird]

137. Just "thinking about the children" eh?

[NoSheep]

138. Gee. You're a little nasty.

[DrWeird]

139. Right back at you.

nt

[NoSheep]

129. Write the company that makes it. n/t

[DrWeird]

131. Write what, exactly?

"Please stop making high quality products that makes you hundreds of millions of dollars, and is loved by your millions of customers."

[NoSheep]

133. I suppose I thought it would make her feel better if she expressed her

objections to the creators. If we ALL expressed our objections, perhaps we wouoldn't be in this political hell hole we are in.:think:

[DrWeird]

134. What does this have to do with politics?

Besides, I for one, look forwards to the next product Rockstar releases in the GTA line-up.

[DoNotRefill]

140. Would you rather he be at home playing GTA...

or out, getting laid?

Videogames are a far more effecive abstinence training method than just about anything else out there.

[UdoKier]

141. I would MUCH RATHER my kid be out getting laid.

I would hope he would wait until 15 or 16 or so, but sex is the most natural, normal human activity of all.

Why would I want him sitting, eyes glazed over, glued to some inane video game, violent or not?

I'd much rather he be learning to love the female form than how to mutilate it.

I'll never understand why so many people - even liberals, apparently, find violence so much more palatable than sexuality.

[DoNotRefill]

144. because 13 is too young to be having sex....

and it's not your child in the first place.

[UdoKier]

146. I'm talking about MY kid.

And many people have sex starting at age 13 and turn out fine - same logic as the defenders of this game use.

The law says that kids this age are too young, but theoretically, I do not have a problem with it so long as the kid has undergone comprehensive sex ed, uses protection and is only with partners more or less his own age.

How do YOU know when a kid is ready?

Again:

sex - healthy, normal decent activity

video game - mind-rotting addictive activity

[DoNotRefill]

148. Around here...

letting your 13 year old have sex is "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". It can result in the State taking custody of the child.

[UdoKier]

150. I'm not talking legal issues here.

My point is that it is sick how our culture celebrates violence and turns sex into something dirty.

Thank you for contributing by referring to sex as a form of "delinquency".

Guess what, I also let my kids have sips of WINE!

[Lone Pawn]

142. I like GTA.

If you hate it...
play it for an hour. No, really. Play it for an hour or two. And see exactly how much of the hate for the game is valid, and how much is censorship-hype.

If you censor anything without intimate knowledge of it, you're as bad as the RW-fundies banning books. Censorship is censorship.

[UdoKier]

143. This thread has nothing to do with censorship.

It has to do with whether or not to buy minor children a gory ant-social game.

Children do not enjoy full rights under the constitution. Parents exercising their right to try to regulate what their own children watch is NOT censorship.

The people who make games like this don't have the right to force it down the throats of parents with minor kids.

[sendero]

145. Two of my sons...

... aged 11 and 14, have been bugging me about GTA3 for over a year.

My answer is simple - no games rated MATURE in my house until you are older. My kids are mature for their age - but there has to be some kind of limits...

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

147. I've got mixed feelings about this

Please note i'm no parent i'm just talking about the game (GTA san andreas)



great liberty many areas to explore many possibilities to excel in different areas ingame

killing is a part of it but compared to what else you can do like racing cars, bikes, flying of different kinds, business style from lowly pimping to house owning and business owning driving cabs, ambulances etc as mentionned before. The stats of the play-avatar improve and decrease by the usage (or the lack of it)

:bounce:
from the main story line i got the impression one's playing a dude who just drew the asscard in life (regarding his gang , friends like officer tenpenny the various harpies passing for ingame gf's. he's just FUCKED in every aspect with the exception you can easyliy get/jack/wreck cars) i doubt strongly anyone would WANT to imitate such a life really in the slightest.

3 thoughts

perhaps you buy the game for yourself and have some enjoyment and depending on what you see judge if you want to share the game with him. it's a safe territory to live out ones darkside to be just an ass .

disallowing it will IMO only lead to less flow of information in the best case and lying in a worse case. If he really wants to play he'll get his will one way or another.

besides if you give it to him you have something he appreciates if he disbehaves you can bar it.

:evilgrin:

like "civilization(PC-Game)" were you can nuke cities and easily clear the pollution with engineer units allthough whit the buildup-strtegies thought and the encyclopaedia its still a great game (one of the best classic games)

"it's just a game" one usually plays it for fun and excells by beating the game mechanics. it's not that it would actually teach your child going against law and order let alone *looks left and right and whispers* the authorities
:bounce: :evilgrin:

anyway good luck deciding he'll be great anyways not for the game but because of a caring parent or two :thumbsup:

[manic expression]

149. I played GTA III back

when I was about 13 or so. Me and my friends played it to DEATH. Now, whenever I play it again, it really does make me cringe. It is truly shocking that I played that so much and came to be as I am now. I think A LOT of my peers have been greatly influenced in a very bad way from that game. I think your decision is very sound.

[Carson]

151. I am opposed, morally, to letting my child play games of that sort.

I've stated previously in this thread that I don't necessarily buy into the argument that violent games lead to violent behavior, however I wouldn't want to take the chance, either. See post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2202108&mesg_id=2204163&page=

Another reason is that I am opposed to the language used in such games. Yes, I know my child will be exposed to it in school, on the street, etc, and will most likely pick some of it up. I'll deal with that when the time comes. However, do I, as a parent, want to condone such behavior by buying games that depict it? Nope, not this parent. For me, that would be hypocritical.

My own humble opinion and parenting style, of course.

[alexisfree]

152. play with your kid...

that’s what we have a rule if is going to be a game with violence or sex mom and dad have to see it first, San Andreas we choose it to play it together we love the first one, I was more excited to have it than my kids!...yes we fight over the missions, yes my kids can use it better and get frustrated with me but I like the game...has many other messages for the kids you need to put attention at the radio stations on that game, has all political sarcasms about the right wind agenda...is very impressed how liberal the game is, it tells you how the government lies to the kids about the army, has commercial talking about how a republican politician gets elected, how pharmaceuticals companies wants you to be on drugs all the time, how the police is corrupted, the small artist who do not have a change an a big record label unless you can sell sex, unemployment, medical coverage only for the rich, in one mission this guy is a hippy but he’s car runs on vegetable oil, than he’s telling the main character to watch out for big brother that is always watching him with the 23 satellites and how contaminated we have our drinking water, goes on and on.., make fun of the rednecks right wind manners, well you do have to put attention to the game, that is why is so controversial and NO is almost no sex except for the girls on the street with miniskirts but come on is fucking computer animation!> so you see you have to try it, than you decide..