A Human Baby vs. An Animal: Is Killing One Worse Than the Other?

[Placebo]

Poll question: A Human Baby vs. An Animal: Is Killing One Worse Than the Other?

Apparently, some people consider wearing fur just as bad or worse than killing a human baby. :crazy:

[frogfromthenorth2]

1. Is it me or this poll is REAL dumb?

[Placebo]

2. I agree.

I made it because of something really dumb that someone said.

[trotsky]

3. Freeper trap.

Only a freeper trying to badmouth DU will vote for the animal.

[WindRavenX]

4. it's a valid poll actually

Because there was a statement made that wearing furs is the same as killing a baby.

[mr_hat]

5. Zygote coats are *wicked* expensive.

[Deja Q]

6. Kill an animal, do it compassionately, and use every bit of it.

Native Americans, as I was taught, did not waste the animals they killed for food and for clothing.

I don't see the problem in using animals wisely and not wastefully.

Animals have no qualms about eating other animals or even plants. And if they figured out that wearing the carcas of another dead critter made them feel warmer, they'd do the same thing too.

Maybe we should all stop walking out of fear we're going to squash an ant. </sarky>

It's all relative.

[WindRavenX]

24. good point

But most people today are very wasteful of what we receive- Americans waste an incredable amount of food every year. It's a huge sin in my eyes.

[livinginphotographs]

7. :sigh:

You failed to respond to me on the other thread so you start a new one.

Please, explain how you came to the conclusion that human life is more valuable than an "animals" (since humans are technically animals as well). I'm not flaming you, I just don't accept "That's just the way it is" as a very convincing argument.

[Placebo]

9. In a hypothetical situation where I have to choose...

if I'm going to save the life of an animal or the life of a human baby, I'll choose the baby. That's why.

[livinginphotographs]

13. Why?

I'm looking for your moral reasoning behind this, not just a "That's the way it is" kind of logic.

You might as well just tell that this is what the Bible says.

[Placebo]

19. I'm an Atheist, actually.

But I'd choose the human baby because it can go on to think, contribute to society, and potentially do great things. Also, because it's an emotional being with far more depth than an Animal one might wear will likely ever have.

[frogfromthenorth2]

11. When you kill an animal, the mother, father, brother, sister, uncle

and all the friend don't cry for days... animals have no souls.... that's why they are so tasty...

[livinginphotographs]

14. Animals have no souls?

And what's your evidence for this? What's your evidence that people have souls? What is a "soul?"

For once, I'd like to see someone back this up without the evidence just being "that's the way it is" or "that's what the Bible says."

[frogfromthenorth2]

26. Have you ever seen a cow grieve over the loss of its baby?

What you are doing is transference. Puting human "feelings" onto animals... Too much Walt Disney movies when you were a kid...

[RebelOne]

34. Yes, I have seen a cow grieve over the loss of its calf

And yes, animals do have feelings. They feel pain, grief, sadness and happiness. And in fact, they do not have the feeling that we humans have, which is hate. What is your problem?

[frogfromthenorth2]

36. Yep... but animals are so tasty.... so who gives a shit....

[livinginphotographs]

40. Elephants have graveyards.

A pig has the same mental capacity of a 3-year-old.

And when my brother's cat lost his brother (my cat) to kidney failure when I was sixteen, his cat walked around the house for a week mewling for his brother.

Nice to end the post with a snide comment though. Dick.

[mdhunter]

39. Didn't catch that news story about the gorillas holding a wake last week?

It's true.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/08/gorilla.wake.ap/

And, anyone that wants to suggest that this case is different because it involves a high order primate must designate the level of cognitive function necessary for any animal, humans included, to have a "right" to life, as it were.

I don't think that line can be drawn on anything but emotional or religious grounds. For me, if I can't explain something pretty well logically, then there is no reason to believe it. I don't think that line, within the set of sentient beings, can be drawn.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. :sigh: If you'd look...someone did respond to you.

Thanks.

[livinginphotographs]

23. double sigh

All you said was that you'd put your dog down because you couldn't afford it.

Honestly, that's the best response I got. I just think when someone says something like that, they should respond personally instead of waiting for someone else to do the job.

Personally, I have two cats. I love them like my children. And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I'd put them down simply because I couldn't afford to get them well. I guess that's where we disagree as to the value of those creatues (human or otherwise) that we've promised to take care of.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. So you would go deep into debt?

I'd love to believe you as I myself love animals, but I cannot take food out of the mouths of my kids. Reality comes in to play.

[livinginphotographs]

29. Yes. I would.

I'm currenly paying an extra $100 for a spaying that would be less painful for my cat.

At one point, I thought my cat might have feline leukemia. Making $10 an hour is really hard to support a serious medical condition for a cat, but I was willing to do it.

I'm glad you'd "love" to believe me, but I would. That's what it means to me when I promise to take care of something: I do all I can to keep that creature (human or otherwise) healthy and happy.

Would you eat your dog?

[gollygee]

30. I'd eat a dog if it was the only way to keep my child fed.

People come first.

If I have to choose between medical care for my cat, and my daughter's needs, my daughter will always come first.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. Again, I'd love to believe you, but cannot until I actually would see you

do this. If I was starving? I don't know. One cannot say what one would do, in Reality. No pass.

[frogfromthenorth2]

38. I have a cousin who is like that... Keeps hum dumb sick dog alive

It suffers as hell but she can't let go. Just because it makes her "feel" good...

[Bluzmann57]

8. People have been hunting animals since time began

It was called survival. The cavemen and women needed food and clothing, so they killed animals in order to get them. Killing any human is wrong. Now I am not advocating the wholesale slaughter of animals, and I am a bit uncomfortable with the way animals are crowded together in real close quarters before going in to the slaughterhouse but we are a huge country and people have to eat. Here in Iowa, vegetarian is almost a dirty word. No factory farms, bring back family farms and lets have free range meats.

[Deja Q]

18. Vegetarianism, without synthetic supplements, can lead to a deficiency of

vitamin B12, amongst other things.

And that is not a good thing. Especially when you consider what B12 is necessary for. http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

Anybody recall that kooky couple that raised its baby on a vegan, rather than a sane, diet? Baby died. Of B12 deficiency. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=2045066 And, quite frankly, I'm shocked that the idiot couple got a lesser sentence than Scott Peterson.

[vpigrad]

32. Wow, the "I hate vegetarians agenda" posted here!

I didn't expect to see that one here.

[yardwork]

10. Uh-uh! Placebo, you are just bored and trying to cause trouble!

I'm not getting sucked into this thread. uh-uh.

[Placebo]

12. Well since you already posted it in it...

why not offer your opinion?

Oh, you're just trying to get your post count up, I see. ;)

[RPM]

15. before I vote....

... does baby in this poll include fetus? I surely dont think so, but others have (perhaps mistakenly, perhaps not) mislabelled fetus as baby.

So, that aside, is a baby, for purposes of this poll, a baby delivered into the world via cesarean section or standard birth and not an unborn?

Thanks - I'll vote later.

[Placebo]

22. Definitely a living, breathing baby...

that's been delivered into the world via cesarean section or standard birth and not an unborn.

[kodi]

17. current cultural attitudes value the capacity for sentience more than life

.

[Deja Q]

21. Which is ironic when you consider that most in our 'culture' LACK

the sentience they judge others for. :crazy:

[hlthe2b]

20. Another attempt to suggest love of animals is mutually exclusive to love

and concern for mankind? :eyes:

Yes, this kind of thing REALLY PISSES ME OFF!

[roguevalley]

25. to kill anything helpless says buckets about you. its cowardly

to hurt anything helpless. either is terrible. I don't make many distinctions between one helpless thing and another.

[gollygee]

28. How about mosquitoes?

Or cockroaches?

They're helpless too.

[Champ]

33. Which poses another thread

"Is killing insects or bugs wrong?"

[gollygee]

35. If there's no difference between a person and a guinea pig

How much difference is there then between a guinea pig and a cockroach?

Edited to add - what I read in that post was that it is cruel to kill anything helpless. A termite is helpless.

[Jean Louise Finch]

37. And another

"Is picking flowers wrong?"

Or do living things just have to be MOBILE for it to be so wrong to hurt them?

Talk about helpless: that daisy in her hair was just sitting there, trying to get some sun.

[seriousstan]

41. Yet another reason I dislike PETA. They are against silk.

Mass Murder for Your Silk Sari


To produce just one hundred grams of silk, approximately 1,500 worms are killed. Some chrysalis are kept aside to allow the moths to emerge and mate.

Once the female moth lays eggs, she is crushed to check for diseases. If she seems diseased, her eggs are destroyed.

After mating, male moths are dumped into a basket and thrown out. Because of generations of inbreeding, they no longer have the ability to fly. Birds commonly pick at them from bins outside silk manufacturing centers.

http://www.petaindia.org/csilk.html

Your agenda has become your God when you don't see the limits of reason. Termites, cockroaches, mosquitoes, wasps and ants are sometimes a nuisance and must be eliminated.

[Moderator]

42. locking

continuation of a flame war and is flame bait.