Could $2Trillion create a whole new alternative energy economy over night?

[tk2kewl]

I mean, if we are going to borrow this king of cash shouldn't we be investing it in the future rather than using it to pay our Social Security bill?

[northzax]

1. overnight? no.

in 30 years? maybe.

[tk2kewl]

2. was a bit rhetorical

i don't mean would we all be driving fuel cell cars next week. i mean would that kind of cash create a strong economic sector in the development of alternatives? if you want to be "supply side" ther it is. invest in new products and technologies now.

[Donkeyboy75]

3. You'd probably have a tough time finding enough

researchers to fund with that kind of money. That is, if you want to ignore the quacks.

[tk2kewl]

4. some could be grants to implement existing technologies

build wind generation all over the place for example.

[Solon]

5. To put it in perspective...

You can throw as much money as you can at the problem, it will still take time. This isn't to say the we shouldn't put money into it, but you would have to rebuild most of the infrastructure, from electricity to transportation, practically from scratch. The problem is that many people are under the false assumption that we can maintain our suburban lifestyles while using alternative energy. This is practically impossible, we waste too much energy as is to make that a solution. It would have to be a multi-pronged effort in implementing existing technologies, rebuilding neighborhoods to be more sustainable, and researching new technologies as well. This would take a decade minimum, and unfortunately, we may not have that much time.

[tk2kewl]

6. well the point is it would create a ton of jobs

if the pukes were truly supply-siders and not just crooks, they would borrow for investment not to pay the bills

[paula777]

7. You honestly don't think we have a decade left before the oil runs out?

[Solon]

10. Its not about the oil running out...

Its about hitting the peak, the time when demand exceeds supply, by this time, oil prices will skyrocket and the '70s energy crisis will seem like a nice dream in comparison. As for the time-frame, well Matthew Simmons of http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/ one of the largest energy investment firms in the world is thinking about 2005-2006, not a lot of time is it? Even optimists are projecting anywhere from 2007 to as late as 2010 at the latest. By the way, look at his speeches to see his view on peak oil also look at these websites:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Introduction.html

Documentary about Peak Oil:

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

This is serious, deadly serious stuff, don't take it lightly and don't dismiss it either.

[Jose Diablo]

8. If that amount of money was invested in solar power

over say 5 years maybe 10 years, let me see.

At the current rate of about $5 per watt generating capacity works out to 400 gigawatt's times about 5 hours average daylight in southern states per day equals about 2 terawatt hours/day generating capacity. Now granted, there is no storage or rectifiers included, but thats a lot of energy. I'd say about enough to replace existing petroleum operated electrical generating capacity.

This would free-up what we burn in stationary plants for transportation needs. And with Hybrid/electric to reduce existing transportation needs, plus as technology improves for portable electric storage eventually replacing Hybrids with full electric, this would end the threat of running out of petroleum or extend what we have globally for a very very long time.

As for the storage needs, it should be possible for businesses and residences to put in place kinetic storage devices to charge during daylight hours to provide an electrical bridge for dark nights and days. I don't know what this would cost overall but with favorable utility pricing for electricity during the day, then storage would become an economic incentive for private installation of suitable storage capacity with a payback period that was reasonable.

The electrical generating could be sold to utilities thus providing profit for the future retires. Money that is not depended on the stock market, because it is profitable infrastucture.

I have heard that solar cells can last forever. Or at least centuries with a small number failing over very long times. Thus, the payback lasts however long the cells last.

I doubt the price for solar cells would stay at $5/watt because with production volume that high the price would surely drop with production improvements and improved yields.

If I had the choice of investing in government controlled and operated infrastructure for my retirement, I'd think it was a good deal and pretty secure also.

Even though I am about to retire, I would go for a SS plan that had money from younger people being invested in government secured infrastructure, infrastructure not controlled by wall street investors.

Like somebody else said above, the money is not really sunk and gone but is recirculated as wages to the ones that supplied the sweat to construct the infrastructure. Thus a economic boon. Money going to labor not investors.

Overall, I'd say a plan to replace a portion of SS with government sponsored solar generating infrastructure would solve several problems we face as a country and humanity too.

Edit: One more thing, if we as a country had the quanity of production capacity for making the cells, then as a country we reached the installed capacity we needed for our country, the production capacity could then be used to sell to other countries to offset our debt to other countries and also to reduce their needs for petroleum. To say nothing about reducing global greenhouse gas emissions.

This is a clasic example of sustainable economic system. One not depended on growth for profit, its something we should do.

[tk2kewl]

9. Thanks for putting some thought behind my rather off the cuff remark

It was my intention to get some people thinking about how we could better invest the absurd amount of money junior wants to borrow for SS. You make excellent points. especially that investing in permanent government infrared as a money maker would ensure that SS funds are used to promote the wellbeing of society rather than corporate profits

[NJCher]

11. yes, most interesting post, Jose

And think if we took the Social Security money and combined it with the money they spent on the Iraq War....wow.


Cher

[Jose Diablo]

13. This Iraq war really troubles me

the waste in lives for oil, the lead-up to allow the war (lies about WMD and also 9-11, I am MIHOP or at least LIHOP).

If our country had the right leaders, Gore, I doubt 9-11 would have happened. I don't know how he would have handled the oil problem, but his leadership on getting the Internet rolling, I think he would have started something in alternate energy similar to the above. Thus, the economic bust would now be over and people would have jobs as construction of the Internet drew to a close. The next major construction job for the country should have been something to address our future needs in energy.

We could have solved the oil problem without Iraq, by building new sources of energy, the technology is there. Instead Bu*h handles the energy problem with a war. Wasting resources on a war instead of just using the war money to quietly build new infrastructure. What a waste. Its criminal.

This Bu*h and his cronies and money people behind the scenes have really 'screwed the pooch'. They have messed-up this country, and the world, big time. These oil tycoons have been screwing this county far too long. All of them belong in jail. Look at Enron, nothing has been done to get the swindled money back to California, to say nothing about the natural gas ripoffs in the rest of the country.

The thing is, he wasn't even elected, and that really chaps my hide.

[keischin]

12. You make Shrub sound promising...

but what are the chances that he wants to promote the wellbeing of society?

[Jose Diablo]

14. No chance

Bu*h has an agenda to move us back a century. And so far he is getting away with it.

[NJCher]

15. broke the bank

They have messed-up this country, and the world, big time.

And the saddest part is they've left us broke and financially unable to follow another path, even if we had the leaders with the vision to do so.


Cher