Harrison Ford, Republican Pig

[SoDesuKa]

Harrison Ford's PR agents are floating a trial balloon about the career impact of him making a film glorifying the siege of Fallujah.

Producers at Universal Pictures are developing what would be Hollywood's first feature film about the war in Iraq, with actor Harrison Ford ready to portray a U.S. general in the movie, the studio said on Friday.

The combat drama would be based on the upcoming book "No True Glory," an account of the battle for Falluja by Bing West, a Marine veteran and former U.S. assistant defense secretary now covering the war as a foreign correspondent, a studio spokesman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/17/falluja.harrison.ford.reut/index.html

If Harrison Ford makes this movie, he'll join Billy Joel as an entertainer who will never get another dime from me.

[LeftCoast]

1. It may have an anti-war view point

I'm pretty confused about the whole thing since Ford is SO anti-war. The whole situation seems odd.

[flamingyouth]

4. You're very right

They haven't even started the screenplay yet.

[ooglymoogly]

43. all you have to do is look into harrisons face to know he

is a gentle, intelligent and kind man. that does not mean he cannot play a bastard to prove a bigger point that the war is a sham. how anyone can make judgments before the scree play is even written is beyond me and to fault harrison and call him a pig on no evidence is )&(*&*%^E$+@!

[SoDesuKa]

145. Anti-War Viewpoint

The notion that a war movie put out by a subsidiary of defense contractor General Electric will have an anti-war viewpoint seems overly optimistic to me. Who makes the decisions - the actors?

[PCIntern]

2. I would await the screenplay...

there were very few pro-war movies made post WW II. The couple which I recall during the Vietnam War were either dismal flops or never heard from again after an initial run. I mean, what the heck is S/Sgt. Barry Sadler doing today?

[autorank]

151. Here is a sneak preview. Don't tell anybody about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1435935#1436131

[supernova]

3. I don't what to make of Ford doing this

It's possible it will be an anti war movie, but who knows? :shrug:

I never knew HF to be conservative.

[Cocoa]

5. how do you know it's "glorifying" it?

and how do you know that Ford is a Republican?

Neither of those assertions are to be found in the article.

[SoDesuKa]

15. Description of Proposed Film

This PR release is a trial balloon. The studio is trying to find out how much they can get away with. Perhaps I should have called Harrison Ford a Republican stooge, not a Republican pig. To me there's not a lot of difference, especially if you make a movie that portrays the Marines as the good guys in a massacre.

[Cocoa]

17. where's all that info coming from?

not from the article you posted, that's for sure.

[SoDesuKa]

97. What Happened at Fallujah?

The movie is not a work of fiction - it describes events that actually happened. And we know what those events are: our soldiers committed a massacre.

If the screenplay is truthful, it will provoke a right wing boycott. No big Hollywood company will shoot itself in the foot. That isn't going to happen, and don't expect it to.

[unblock]

6. harrison ford is a democrat, big time.

in an interview, he once said, "basically, i was raised a democrat" in response to "what religion are you?"

[SoDesuKa]

8. Big Time Democrat

If Ford is a big time Democrat, why is he considering doing a movie that promotes the war in Iraq? Is money all that important to him?

The movie is said to be about the military response to the killing of the four contractors, which right wingers see as the provocation to flatten Fallujah. The screenplay is based on a book written by a guy with ties to the Marine Corps. This is not shaping up as an anti-war film.

[democracyindanger]

50. Huge...giant...massive...

assumptions. Why not wait to actually see what the book is about before pulling out the long knives?

[liberalnurse]

18. Exactly,....folks are too quick on the draw

to assassinate someone's character before they search the facts.

[Placebo]

68. He sure is.

And a really kind, decent man to boot.

[cali]

7. Before you slam someone as a republican pig

why don't you find out if it's true, or aren't you interested in the truth? I remember Ford calling for regime change in the U.S. Not to mention that the name of the flick is No True Glory: The Battle for Fallujah. Geesh.

[PCIntern]

11. Hey, did you hear that

Alan Alda is starring in a TV show which will promote the glory of the Korean War? It's based on a movie by the same name wherein Elliot Gould and Donald Sutherland, both well-known RW ideologues, play physicians who believe wholeheartedly in the righteousness and justice of the military of the USA.

Yeah, that's the ticket...

[SoDesuKa]

12. Action Hero

Harrison Ford makes action hero films. This film is said to be about the military response to the killing of four American military contractors - a provocation which right wingers claim as justification for flattening that city.

This does not sound like an anti-war film. Quite the opposite! It sounds like it will glorify the siege of Fallujah. Perhaps there will be a smidgen of regret thrown in as a sop to liberals. I suppose I ought to be grateful that we're not ignored completely.

[cali]

14. Get over it. It's a movie

He's an actor. Your outrage is so over the top that it's laughable.

[SoDesuKa]

21. Justified Outrage

What the Marines did in Fallujah was an atrocity like what the Israelis did in Jenin. When you say "It's only a movie" you are in denial about the propaganda value of popular arts.

This will not be an anti-war film. It will glorify the siege of Fallujah and throw in some misgivings as a sop to the liberals. Remember that the U.S. military suppressed the truth of what happened in Fallujah, just as the Israeli military suppressed the truth of what happened in Jenin.

We should sympathize with the victims of U.S. violence, not with the thugs who perpetrate it.

[mark414]

23. oh so you've read the script?

how is it? since you obviously know everything about it...

put a sock in it, there are bigger problems to get pissed about.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoDesuKa]

39. My Lai Misgivings

There's no question that Harrison Ford has the right to appear in any film espousing any viewpoint whatever. If Leonard DiCaprio were to play Rusty Calley in a film about My Lai, he certainly has the right to do that as well.

But casting an action hero type in a film about a massacre of civilians suggests sympathy for the perpetrators of that massacre. Ford shouldn't even consider taking the part, and if he does, he'll never get another dime of mine.

The film is going to whitewash our crimes in Fallujah. If you're happy with a sop to the liberals in the form of a few misgivings, go ahead and enjoy the film. I think the glorification of political violence should bother you more than it apparently does.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

44. As has been pointed out to you

many times in this thread, you have no idea how this film will portray Fallujah. Condemning someone for something with no evidence to back up your claims is an ugly thing to do. You also neglected to address my question about proportionality.

[SoDesuKa]

87. We Know What Happened

They're not inventing a story. We know what happened at Fallujah - our troops massacred hundreds of civilians. There's no way a big Hollywood production company will tell the truth, they simply won't do it.

There's no possible scenario other than a whitewash. Don't be naive. Don't tell me that a big corporation is going to shoot itself in the foot.

[City Lights]

16. Your knowledge of Harrison Ford's acting career is limited.

It matches your knowledge of his politics. :eyes:

[SoDesuKa]

22. Raiders of the Lost Ark

Ford, the star of Raiders of the Lost Ark, is an American action hero. His role in a movie about Fallujah will create sympathy for the thugs who massacred innocent people in that city. It doesn't make a difference that he will show some misgivings - that's just a sop to the liberals.

[LSdemocrat]

25. Did you notice the ending of that movie?

Remember how the US Army covered up the whole thing and took the Ark for themselves?

Does that sound right-wing to you?

[City Lights]

27. Is Radiers of the Lost Ark the only movie he made?

You're type-casting him as action hero. He's more than that.

[mark414]

31. have you ever been in combat?

shit have you ever even been in a life or death situation??

quit bashing the military, a group made up of a lot of poor ass kids who had no other options for themselves

focus your outrage on the ones ordering them around

they are pawns in georgie's game and your self righteous tirade only makes other liberals look like jackasses

and i don't think it's fair to say that any misgivings they show will be a "sop to liberals"...liberal doesn't mean anti-war and there are certainly conservative people who are against this war

[SoDesuKa]

66. Realistically . . .

Realistically, how do you think a big Hollywood production company is going to portray the actions of the Marine Corps in a war which is ongoing? Do you really believe they're going to be unsympathetic?

But the Marines don't deserve any sympathy. What they've done to the people of Fallujah was criminal. Do you really expect Hollywood to tell the truth? Don't be naive.

[mcscajun]

69. Good lord! So much venom and invective and all you've got to go on...

...are your own unfounded assumptions!

Cut the man some slack here!

"The film is said to be..." By whom? Citing what as proof?
"...based on the book..." If we all had a dime for every Hollywood movie that used that line and then trashed the book's original premise, viewpoint AND conclusion...we could throw one helluva party.

"It sounds like..."

Assumptions, assumptions and MORE assumptions. How about you open up your eyes to some facts...and as far as movies...wait until a screenplay gets pirated to the 'Net before you worry about your judgements. Or better yet...just. Wait. For. The. Movie. Sheesh.

[SoDesuKa]

74. Venom and Invective

So much venom and invective, and all I've got to go on is the knowledge of what happened at Fallujah - a massacre of hundreds of civilians. Now a big Hollywood film company is casting an action hero in the role of the Marine general who ordered the massacre. Do you really expect Harrison Ford to antagonize the Bush administration and everybody who voted for it?

Don't be naive. This movie will be a whitewash. Tell me how it could avoid that. Will some big entertainment company risk a Republican boycott?

[mcscajun]

81. No one here is disputing the horror that was visited upon Fallujah.

And I don't think there are many naive types on this board, either.

And yes...I really expect the movie to be more Anti-War than you clearly expect.

1)Harrison Ford has been openly Against the war on Iraq.
2) The book is titled "No True Glory"; not "Glory, Glory, Fallujah."
3) This excerpt from ComingSoon.net: "After four Americans were mutilated and hanged in Fallujah, the White House ordered an assault on the insurgent stronghold to be led by Gen. Jim Mattis (to be played by Ford). Marine forces devastated the opposition and were 48 hours away from taking control of Fallujah when the White House abruptly ordered them to stop. The Marines lost 28 soldiers the first time around and added another 50 fatalities after the White House ordered them to go back and finish the job six months later."

If this is to be the focus of the film, and we can only surmise what the focus WILL BE at this point, but IF it IS, then clearly the film can point up how totally FUCKED the Bush Administration's handling of not only the attack on Fallujah, but the entire war on Iraq, is a betrayal of the very troops it claims to support.

You can beat your one-note drum all you want while ignoring and/or dismissing the thoughts and opinions of others. You'll do it alone.

I will reserve judgement on Harrison Ford And the Film...until much more information is available. As others have pointed out...there's No Book Out Yet...No Screenplay Written...No Deal Signed. But You Know Better, Of Course.

Bye.

[SoDesuKa]

99. Devastating the Opposition

Devastating the opposition is military-speak for committing a massacre. When you quote - with apparent approval - the statement that the Marines were with 48 hours of taking control over the city, there's no way to validate that figure. It sounds like it came from a Pentagon press release. We do know what happened after the election - the Marines threw out the foreign press and flattened the city, killing hundreds of non-combatants.

There's no way that an American company will risk alienating right wingers by telling the truth about Fallujah. The movie will have the Marine general showing great remorse as he wrestles with his conscience, implying that Fallujah was unpleasant but necessary. The same could be said about My Lai; in fact the same was said about My Lai. Rusty Calley was seen as a victim of meddling liberals - that's why Nixon pardoned him.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcscajun]

110. Repeating...Who's Ordering the PIZZA?

:P

Please note....tnis is by way of mentioning I'm not going to respond to this thread in any serious fashion again.

[City Lights]

117. I'm with you on that, mscajun.

It's out there, but fun to watch. :evilgrin:

I'll take stuffed with tomatoes, green peppers, and garlic. :9

edited for spelling :dunce:

[mcscajun]

150. I just finished mine....pepperoni, extra cheese.

And it was DELICIOUS! :)

[SoDesuKa]

115. General Electric

I don't expect General Electric to tell the American people the truth about Fallujah, but you're apparently more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt than I am.

G.E. - we bring good things to life.

[hyphenate]

127. Harrison

also plays in drama films, and has made a few comedies in his career as well. You can't insinuate much if there is no script written yet. And as far as Ford's involvement, it is probably along the line of a "looksee" deal. Ford has likely been approached to do it, and the producers/writers can use his name until the deal gets bought by a studio. When the script is written, he will read the final product to see if it's something he will actually do. At this point, he can either back out or ask for revisions.

Business in Hollywood isn't as easy as it looks.

[Inland]

9. "No True Glory" doesn't sound like a title of a pro war movie, does it.

Give the old guy a break.

[leftofthedial]

10. John Wayne

and the Green Berets

[SoDesuKa]

13. John Wayne With Misgivings

Macho guy shows sensitive side. Fuck that.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

19. He's an actor. He got a role. He's going to play it.

Makes perfect sense to me. Robin Williams isn't gay, does that mean he shouldn't have played the fellow that was in The Birdcage? It's a role, it's not who he actually is. It's the exact same thing with Harrison Ford playing an army general. He doesn't have to condone or be a supporter of the war on Iraq to effectively play the role in the movie.

[SoDesuKa]

29. Republican Stooge

In the aftermath of Bush's re-election it's especially inappropriate to whitewash the massacre at Fallujah. It's wrong to make Americans feel better about what we did to those innocent people.

Ford's an actor, but he's also a citizen and a human being. It's morally wrong of him to take role that justifies the kind of violence the Marines perpetrated at Fallujah. If he goes ahead with this project, he's at least a Republican stooge.

[City Lights]

30. If you have proof that this will be a whitewash, please

share it. Until then, I'm outta this thread. :eyes:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

34. He's a known Democrat

nt

[SoDesuKa]

56. Money's Very Important

Money's very important to Hollywood actors. Ford is clearly worried about what this film will do to his image. I called him a Republican pig when I should have called him a Republican stooge. That's not a big difference to me, but it is to Ford's fans.

[Zomby Woof]

37. EXACTLY

I am not a fan of leg lamps, but you would never know it by the enthusiasm I bring to the role of the Old Man that I am not! :D

[SoDesuKa]

45. Leonard DiCaprio Plays Rusty Calley

This film will whitewash our crimes against defenseless civilians. As a citizen and a moral person, Harrison Ford should decline to participate in it.

It's quite possible to sympathize with Rusty Calley. That's why Nixon let him off easy. After all, the soldiers of Calley's platoon were pretty damn frustrated at being shot at from behind trees. No wonder they lined up the whole village and shot them all.

If Leonard DiCaprio were to play Calley in a film about My Lai, would you be making the same argument defending him?


Baby Killer Rusty Calley


http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/vietnamgenocide/Mylai.html

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

47. No, Nixon let him off because Nixon was the fuckwad that had them there

It doesn't look good to the American people when you acknowledge that your country is killing those it's meant to defend.

[Zomby Woof]

48. yep

Because the actor can get the SUBJECT MATTER out there to be discussed, pro and con, just like we're doing on this thread.

I like how the people jumping all over Ford don't even know what the movie is really about. No evidence that it is pro-war or gung-ho.

None.

But this is why so many DUers piss me off: they are as reactionary as the RW, and as hypocritical. They don't let the facts get in the way of some good ol' demagoguery and moral self-aggrandizement.

As an actor and an historian, I confidently say you have no idea what goes into playing a role and WHY, when it goes beyond the ordinary commercial considerations.

[SoDesuKa]

57. Hollywood Studios

No Hollywood production company is going to piss off huge markets like Texas and the rest of the South. It's not going to happen. Right wingers will walk away from this film satisfied that it portrayed the "necessity" of the massacre at Fallujah.

But that's not what happened at Fallujah. This movie can't be anything but a whitewash.

[mark414]

59. none?

what about miramax and F911?

hollywood is full of liberals!

[Placebo]

72. HOW DO YOU EVEN KNOW?

You're making all these conclusions and assumptions with absolutely no basis in fact in reference to this movie.

Why not wait until you know more about it to be outraged, hmm?

[SoDesuKa]

85. What Happened at Fallujah?

There's no need to wait for some Hollywood screen writer to interpret the events at Fallujah - we know what happened. Our troops massacred hundreds of civilians.

We are now told that action hero Harrison Ford will play the Marine general who ordered the massacre. Are we to believe that a big Hollywood production company will risk a right wing boycott by portraying the general as a monster?

Don't be naive. Don't tell me that an American corporation will voluntarily shoot itself in the foot by pissing off Red State voters.

[Placebo]

70. I agree.

[GRLMGC]

153. I agree n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

20. Someone needs to make a movie about Fallujah

An honest one.

[SoDesuKa]

114. Good Idea

An honest movie about Fallujah is a good idea. Don't expect Universal Pictures - a subsidiary of General Electric - to produce it.

[rockydem]

24. I don't see what your problem is

The guy makes movies. This could make an interesting movie. Ever see 'Black Hawk Down'? That was a good movie that neither glorified war, nor was propaganda against war - it was just straight up this is what happened and this is what it was like for the people in that pitched, doomed battle.

The key to making a good war movie is to keep the fuckin' propaganda out - and that means from both sides. Our propaganda is just as poisonous to art as theirs is...

[City Lights]

26. "Glorifying the siege of Fallujah?"

Glorify isn't the word I'd use. This makes it sound like it will be a slam on _{the chimp} to me.

"No True Glory" will use the Fallujah assault as a way to explore the dangerous intersection of war and politics, depicting the drama from the viewpoints of soldiers, military leaders and politicians.

After four Americans were mutilated and hanged in Fallujah, the White House ordered an assault on the insurgent stronghold to be led by Gen. Jim Mattis (to be played by Ford). Marine forces devastated the opposition and were 48 hours away from taking control of Fallujah when the White House abruptly ordered them to stop. The Marines lost 28 soldiers the first time around and added another 50 fatalities after the White House ordered them to go back and finish the job six months later.

http://movieweb.com/news/news.php?id=6245

[mark414]

28. ahh so that might make the white house look stupid

interesting...

[rockydem]

36. You really caught the Clooney bug, eh?

Did you catch his new interview in Esquire? It's great.

[City Lights]

40. Oh yeah!

Love him. :loveya: Majorly.

The Esquire interview is tops. I was thinking of using this quote as my sig. I'll probably rotate it.

"We don't have to put the word compassionate in front of liberal the way conservatives do to prove that we give a shit about people. I think we should change what we call ourselves. I think we should be ruthless liberals. We need to show that we're tough, that we really give a shit about people."

George Clooney and No Surrender. Ruthless liberals. :evilgrin:

[rockydem]

42. Yep that caught my eye too - nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

33. Don't drag a name through the mud for something that might not be true

Geez, Ford is a huge democrat.
Remember all the people on this board that slammed Steven Tyler as a Bush supporter? Then remember how sheepish they all were when he made that statement that Kerry was a great man and he would play the inauguration and those pictures of him and Kerry playing hockey for charity together surfaced?

This is pretty flimsy evidence to bash someone over.

[ET Awful]

35. I still want to know how the HELL they can justify making a movie

about a battle that's hardly ended and resulted in scores of American deaths and hundreds of Iraqi civilian deaths.

I guess they need some propaganda eh?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. It doesn't look like propaganda though...it looks anti-Bush.

[SoDesuKa]

52. Right Wingers Will Love It

Right in the middle of a war, a big Hollywood studio is going to cast an established, bankable star in the role of a Marine general. Do you realistically expect the characterization to be anything but sympathetic? Yes, they will throw a sop to the liberals - the general will have misgivings about waging war on defenseless people. But in the end, the movie will satisfy right wingers. They won't go away feeling it's another Fahrenheit 9/11.

This is not objectivity. The big Hollywood studio will give the American public what it wants - forgiveness for Fallujah. But it's morally wrong of the studio, it's morally wrong of the actors who participate in it, and it's morally wrong of people who support the whitewash of a massacre.

It will be similar to a hypothetical My Lai With Misgivings with Leonard DiCaprio as "Baby Killer" Rusty Calley. He'll be oh so sorry afterwards. Coming to a theater near you.

[mark414]

53. you keep saying the same thing

and you're not even addressing any of the complaints or criticisms that anyone on here has lobbed towards you.

you are being just as reactionary and hysterical as a right winger, and your attitude, at least on this particular topic, makes liberals look bad.

please stop.

[SoDesuKa]

61. Lobbing Complaints

Curious word, lobbing. It suggests a great distance between us, and that "complaints" are objects to be thrown.

Hollywood is going to whitewash the Fallujah massacre. This does not sit well with me. If it sits well with you, maybe you'd like Leonard DiCaprio as Rusty Calley in a sympathetic revisit to My Lai.

Don't be naive. This movie can't be anything but a whitewash, with a smidgen of misgivings thrown in as a sop to the liberals. Will you be happy with that little bit? Perhaps you're glad we're not ignored completely.

[mark414]

62. you sound like a broken record

and you're making judgements on a script that hasn't even been written yet.

that's ignorant.

[SoDesuKa]

67. Not Written Yet

My judgements are made on the basis of things that have already happened. The Marine Corps went into Falluja and flattened the place, killing hundreds of innocent civilians.

Do you honestly believe that a big Hollywood production company is going to portray the Fallujah massacre as it really was? Don't be naive. That is not going to happen. They are going to whitewash the massacre.

[PopSixSquish]

49. How About Everyone Wait and See if the Movie Ever Gets Made?

Many films, including those that have big name stars attached to them, in up in "turnaround" (industry term) for various reasons.

Changing directors, re-writing screenplays, actors taking on other roles...

And as has been said upthread, no one knows if what the substance of the movie will actually be.

Folks need to stop participating in that great sport "the jump to conclusion" and not just about this movie.

[SoDesuKa]

54. Make a Stink NOW

This film will be a whitewash of the massacre at Fallujah - it can't be anything else. There will be a few misgivings thrown in as a sop to the liberals, but no big production company is going to alienate Red State movie goers. It ain't gonna happen. Don't be naive.

[democracyindanger]

55. Yes! Censorship!

We can do it too! Great idea! Once the book comes out, we should have book burning rallies! Brilliant!

[SoDesuKa]

60. Irrelevant Comment

That's an irrelevant comment. A Hollywood company is talking about making a movie about Fallujah, and we should object to the possibility of a whitewash before it happens. There's no censorship involved in that.

How do you realistically think a big Hollywood production company will portray the Marine general in charge of subduing Fallujah? Casting Harrison Ford in the role shows it's bound to be sympathetic. Don't be naive. This will be a popular film, not some Swedish art house offering.

[democracyindanger]

63. See: Platoon

See: Full Metal Jacket
See: The Thin Red Line
See: Born On The 4th Of July
See: Hamburger Hill

Big-budget anti-war major releases.

You are critcizing a movie that has yet to be made from a book that has yet to be released. Talk about irrelevance.

[SoDesuKa]

71. Late Eighties

The films you mention were made in the late 80's* when it was safe to produce films with antiwar content. This was nearly two decades after the Vietnam war was over.

You are using these films as evidence to support your contention that a big Hollywood production company will take on the Bush administration's interpretation of events in an ongoing war. I don't see that happening.

- - - - -

Thin Red Line was made in 1998.

[democracyindanger]

123. It must be horrible

to live utterly convinced that Chimpy's power is so all-encompassing.

[SoDesuKa]

131. Mega-Corporations

Certainly you don't deny that mega-corporations are very powerful, do you? General Electric is now in the business of making movies which purport to explain current events. Do you trust General Electric to be fair and balanced? I don't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. What did Billy Joel do?

[SoDesuKa]

64. He's a Known Pig

I won't go into it here, but Billy Joel is a known pig. A committed pig.

[donheld]

79. I don't think you know what you're talking about

SoDesuKa you have a lot of homework to do before you come around here with more accusations.

[SoDesuKa]

88. what Happened at Fallujah?

Do you think some Hollywood film company is going to tell the truth about what happened at Fallujah? Don't be naive. It will be a whitewash.

Tell me how they can tell the truth without triggering a Red State boycott.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

90. What's that got to do with Billy Joel?

[SoDesuKa]

107. Nothing

The connection is trivial. He's an entertainer I boycott, that's all. I still think he's a pig, but I hadn't been aware he gives money to Hillary Clinton. Some people think that counts in his favor, and I won't argue the point.

Turns out Harrison Ford may not be a Republican pig as such. He may be only a Republican stooge.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. That's strange

I am a big music fan and I have never heard that before.

[RetroLounge]

58. Yeah, whatever.

Try reading the black things on the page, not in between them.

And whattsa matter, Billy Joel steal away your Christy Brinkley fantasy?

:eyes:

RL

[mcscajun]

83. Best Response Imaginable...

...and funny, too! :)

[City Lights]

94. Hi RetroLounge.

Happy Saturday to you, my friend. :hi:

Those black things can be problematic for some, eh? ;-)

[Downtown Hound]

65. Harrison Ford is not only a big Dem

but he is also a devout Buddhist who meditates daily. Also when Michael Moore did his Oscar acceptance speech for Bowling for Columbine, a shot of the crowd showed Harrison Ford beaming a huge grin at him. I seriously doubt this is going to be a propaganda film.

[SoDesuKa]

73. Propaganda Film

If this film is at all truthful, tell me how the producers can avoid antagonizing the Bush administration and all the Red State voters. If the film is realistic, it will show what the Marines did at Fallujah, and the Bush people will denounce it.

There's no third way here. The studio will kowtow to the Bushies and make a nod in the direction of the liberals. I'm calling it My Lai With Misgivings. Right wingers will walk away contented after seeing it. Tell me how it can be any different.

[Trajan]

77. I think your wrong ...

about the 'tilt' of this movie .... It is not a jingoistic propaganda piece, but has an anti-militaristic cant ...

Someone else posted a thread on this recently ... I cant go look it up ...

[SoDesuKa]

80. Antagonizing the Wingers

It's not enough to disagree with me without offering a scenario whereby this movie can tell the truth and avoid antagonizing the Bush administration. Don't tell me that a big Hollywood company is going to shoot itself in the foot. That's not going to happen.

Realistically, the studio will sanitize the death of hundreds of civilians and throw a sop to liberals by having the general show some remorse about it. This remorse will be nothing more than misgivings, so right wingers won't mount a boycott. They'll walk away contented, having been told that the Fallujah massacre was disagreeable but necessary. They'll shrug their shoulders and say War is hell.

[Downtown Hound]

102. Dude, here's a radical idea

Why don't you just wait until it comes out before you are so quick to condemn it. Maybe it will be a propaganda film, but your absolute certainty before the production has even started and no one even knows what the script is is just not very rational. Take it easy.

[SoDesuKa]

134. Radical Idea

That's not a radical idea, that's rolling over and playing dead as General Electric, a huge defense contractor, explains Fallujah to the masses. Do you really trust those people to tell the truth about the massacre? Tell me you don't.

[donheld]

75. What is Billy Joel's sin?

:shrug:

[Left Is Write]

76. Well, it can't be these political contributions.

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=NY&last=Joel&first=William

[JVS]

92. The only thing I can think of is that he sucks horribly

:shrug:

[48pan]

100. He was good thirty years ago. nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen

There is nothing in the article to suggest Ford will glorify the war and Billy Joel is a HUGE Democratic supporter...so unless that qualifies someone as a pig in your book or there is something you aren't telling us, I would suggest you give it up and admit you are in error.

[SoDesuKa]

82. Marine General Orders Massacre

Tell me how this movie can tell the truth and not trigger a right wing boycott. Marine general orders death of hundreds of civilians, later feels bad about it? Is that your scenario?

What happened at Fallujah? Answer me that.

[mcscajun]

84. Okay...it's time SOMEBODY said it...Who's Up for Pizza?

:)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Really good rainman imitation

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

108. Ford is a MAJOR environmentalist

which is, IMO the antithesis of a puke.

[SoDesuKa]

112. What Happened at Fallujah?

Sketch me a scenario whereby Universal Pictures - a subsidiary of General Electric - is going to tell the truth about the massacre at Fallujah. I don't see it happening. To avoid a right wing boycott, the movie about Fallujah will be a whitewash. Harrison Ford's portrayal of General Mattis will be sympathetic, leaving right wingers with the comforting illusion that Fallujah was unpleasant but necessary.

But in fact Fallujah was as unnecessary and criminal as My Lai. People who defend Ford's role in the film would not defend Leonard DiCaprio in a sympathetic portray of Rusty Calley. Mind you, there was a lot of sympathy for Lt. Calley at the time - that's why Nixon let him off easy.

Most Americans were dissatisfied with the Calley verdict. A broad coalition, from renowned pediatrician and anti-war activist Dr. Benjamin Spock to the Ku Klux Klan spoke out against Calley's conviction, arguing that he was a scapegoat for a military that was unwilling to accept the blame for the atrocity it had committed.

The Army took steps to prosecute others involved at My Lai, including Capt. Ernest Medina, and some two dozen men were eventually charged. But Calley was the only one ever convicted, and for the most part, the participants in the cover-up exposed by both the Army inspector general and the Peers report escaped without punishment.

http://www.courttv.com/archive/greatesttrials/mylai/aftermath.html

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

125. SO are you angry because we aren't sympathetic to Calley?

I really think you are playing this entire board with this thread

[SoDesuKa]

129. Calley Was a Mass Murderer

No, I don't have any sympathy for Calley. He should have gotten the same sentence as any other mass murderer. And I don't have any sympathy for General Mattis, either. Various nice things have been said here about Harrison Ford but they are quite beside the point. The very fact that Han Solo was invited to play General Mattis suggests that the movie will portray him sympathetically. It's hard to imagine General Electric allowing one of its subsidiaries to alienate right wing voters.

Sympathy for the Marine general who ordered the Fallujah massacre is wildly inappropriate. It's just as inappropriate as sympathy for Rusty Calley would be. There's no reason to accommodate the Marine Corps here - their soldiers committed a massacre. The troops who participated in it are war criminals, and so is the general who ordered it.

I'm trying to think of something equally inappropriate besides sympathy for Calley. Maybe a movie about the Shatila massacre in Lebanon, in which some distinguished and beloved American character actor - perhaps Ben Gazzara - plays Ariel Sharon. Would you see the point then?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

130. I think you are jumping to conclusions. Movies have been made about

Hitler...they certainly weren't sympathetic.

[SoDesuKa]

132. Hitler Movies

The apt comparison would be to movies made by corporations friendly to the Third Reich and released for consumption by the German people during Hitler's years in power. Would you trust such films to portray Hitler, warts and all?

General Electric, a huge defense contractor, is now in the business of making movies. Do you trust G.E. to portray Fallujah exactly as it happened?

It seems very likely that the massacre will be whitewashed. Will G.E. risk alienating the Bush administration or its supporters? I don't see it happening.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoDesuKa]

95. Likely Scenario

Tell me how a Hollywood screen writer can possibly tell the truth about Fallujah without getting the right wingers in an uproar. If the screenplay is truthful, right wing voters will boycott the film company, the actors, and the theaters that show it.

There's no third way here. The movie will probably have the Marine general ordering the massacre with great reluctance. Thus, American moviegoers will be told that Fallujah was unpleasant but necessary. This is a whitewash. If Harrison Ford participates in it, he'll be at least a Republican stooge, if not an out-and-out pig.

[LiviaOlivia]

104. Ford to play Mattis. Mattis left Iraq in August 2004

Sounds to me like this proposed movie takes place during March-April 2004. Not November 2004.

SoDesKa why don't you e-mail Bing West author of the not-yet-published "No True Glory" at http://www.westwrite.com?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harrison's True Glory
Will star in Iraq war movie.

December 17, 2004 - Variety reports that Harrison Ford will star in the first major feature film about the current war in Iraq. Ford is attached to portray Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, then commanding general of the 1st Marine Division, who led the U.S. assault on Fallujah following the gruesome slayings of four American contractors in March 2004.

Michael Shamberg and Stacey Sher will produce the film based on the upcoming book No True Glory: The Battle for Fallujah by Bing West, a former Marine and assistant secretary of defence for international security affairs. No True Glory will be published in May.

West, a reporter for Slate, will also pen the screenplay adaptation. His son Owen has served in Iraq.

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/574/574189p1.html



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAMP BLUE DIAMOND, Iraq(Aug. 21, 2004) -- "Sergeant major, deliver the colors to the commanding general," boomed the narrator.

In a small ceremony in an Al Asad airplane hangar Aug. 20, Brig. Gen. Richard F. Natonski received the battle colors of the 1st Marine Division and his new command from Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis.

<snip>

Mattis relinquished command of the oldest and most decorated division in the Marine Corps to Natonski after serving two years as commanding general.

The division has deployed twice to Iraq during Mattis' time in command. It has been an arduous task that the Marines, sailors and soldiers have stepped up to accomplish.

"In the last 5 1/2 months we have taken 1,555 killed and wounded," Mattis said. "Out here, our soldiers, sailors and Marines are giving 100% and continue do so. General Natonski, you are inheriting probably one of the finest commands privileged in America."

<snip>

Mattis will go on to take command of the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va. He has led Marines in combat in Desert Storm, Afghanistan and last year's march to Baghdad.

<snip>

The ceremony over, Mattis flew back to the U.S., accompanied by many of his Marines.

<snip>


link:
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d458/8e0ac319cd0ad2ba85256ef8005909e6?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,mattis

[SoDesuKa]

106. Not a Significant Difference

The difference between the April massacre and the November massacre was the presence of the foreign press. The Marines might have been poised in April to do what they later did in November, but any hesitation had to do with public relations, not concern for the civilian population.

There's no way that General Electric will risk alienting right wingers by showing the horror of Fallujah with any resemblence to the truth. As a sop to liberals, Harrison Ford will portray General Mattis as almost Hamletesque in his reluctance to take action resulting in the death of the innocent.

It will be a total whitewash. Nothing less would satisfy the right wing. They'll waddle home contentedly, thinking Fallujah was unpleasant but necessary. After all, War is hell.

G.E. - We bring good things to life

[Wat_Tyler]

91. Ahem.....

'While Ford would play a lead role in the film, the movie is envisioned as a broader look at the conflict in Falluja as a study of the connections between war and politics as seen through the eyes of the troops, their commanders and civilian leaders, Universal's spokesman said.'

Enough with the witch hunts, eh?

[SoDesuKa]

105. Trust G.E.

Trust General Electric. They're the wonderful folks who bring you Meet the Press.

Oh, yeah. They're really going to tell the truth about Fallujah. The Harrison Ford character will agonize about the suffering of the common people before he orders the Marines to flatten the city.

Right wing moviegoers will really get an eye-opener! G.E. - We bring good things to life.

[Wat_Tyler]

113. Of course, you're welcome to judge things before you see them.

Always a wise course of action.

[SoDesuKa]

120. Trust G.E.

The wonderful folks who bring you Meet the Press - what's not to trust?

Aircraft engines - financial services - home appliances - right wing propaganda . . .

G.E. - We bring good things to life

[name not needed]

96. They don't even have a fucking screenplay yet!

Unless you're the one writing it, how the hell do you know if it's glorifying what happened in Fallujah?

[SoDesuKa]

101. Universal Pictures - a G.E. Company

Surely you're not expecting Universal Pictures to tell the truth about Fallujah, are you? Please tell me you're not. But if you are, I'm puzzled how you came to that opinion. This company is owned by General Electric.

Are you expecting the truth from General Electric? How naive.

http://www.ge.com/en/

[MrModerate]

98. What did Billy Joel do . . . ?

Other than get old and little dull?

[name not needed]

103. Check post #58

[mcscajun]

111. Make mine Pepperoni, Please.

Yum.

[SoDesuKa]

118. We Bring Good Things to Life

The wonderful folks who bring you Tim Russert every Sunday are making a movie about Fallujah. Aerospace - financial services - home appliances - right wing propaganda . . .

G.E. - We Bring good things to life

[CJCRANE]

116. Guardian review

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1375687,00.html

The film promises to depict the story from the point of view of US soldiers and politicians; it seems unlikely that the plight of the Iraqis will figure too prominently in Hollywood's take on the subject.

Writing last week for the online journal Slate.com, West said: "If America needs a hard job done, the marines will do it, and they won't lose their humanity in the process or any sleep over pulling the trigger. Yes, they are 'the world's most lethal killing machine.' That's what America needs in battle."

[Borgnine]

119. Yeesh.

One more for the ignore list. I love DU, but I swear this can sometimes be the liberal version of Salem witch hunts.

Take my advice: there's plenty of things to be angry about today... there's no need to invent them out of thin air.

[SoDesuKa]

121. The Wonderful Folks

The wonderful folks who bring you Meet the Press . . . are in the movie business!

Nothing to see here, folks. Just move along. Aircraft engines, financial services, home appliances, right wing propaganda . . .

G.E. - we bring good things to life

[CarbonDate]

122. Worst case of cognitive dissonance I've seen in a while....

Wow.

[hyphenate]

124. Harrison Ford

is a liberal. If he does the picture, I'm sure it will not glorify the war in Iraq. Ford walks the walk and talks the talk. He's made it clear he doesn't support this regime.

[SoDesuKa]

138. Crazed Blood Lust

The Fallujah massacre came about because of Bush and Rumsfeld's crazed blood lust. Harrison Ford should not lend his name to a project that will whitewash this shameful incident. It's like Ben Gazzara agreeing to play Ariel Sharon ordering the massacre at Shatila, or Leonard DiCaprio playing Rusty Calley at My Lai.

[Buns_of_Fire]

126. He makes a better president than the one in there now...

Ref: Air Force One.

[AlCzervik]

128. Harrison Ford has given money to Democrats except for 1 time to Mccain

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?xst=MS&last=Ford&first=Harrison

[SoDesuKa]

133. Republican Stooge

I've corrected my original characterization of Harrison Ford as a Republican pig. I now hold that if he goes ahead with a sympathetic portrayal of the Marine general who ordered the massacre at Fallujah, Ford is merely a Republican stooge. It is not a big difference to me because I think anyone who carries water for the Republicans might as well be one. But it's significant enough that his Democratic fans want me to be more precise. So be it.

[AlCzervik]

137. Have you seen the script? You don't know what the final product will be

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

135. So if you heard that Charlie Sheen and Willem Dafoe were going to star

in a film about the Vietnam war, would you automatically assume that it would glorify that war? Sheesh.

[SoDesuKa]

140. After Thirty-Five Years, Who Cares?

Vietnam movies came out two decades after the war was over. Antiwar sentiments contained in these movies didn't matter.

But here's a case in which General Electric, a mighty defense contractor, undertakes to explain the Iraq war to the masses - as the war is still going on. Do you trust General Electric?

Would you like to see a sympathetic portrayal of Lynndie England in a movie about Abu Ghraib? Who do you think should play her?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

141. (sigh)

[SoDesuKa]

144. Mind if I Join You?

Let's sigh together. (sigh)

G.E. - We bring good things to life

Aircraft engines - financial services - home appliances - right wing propaganda . . .

[northzax]

136. rightho

Harrison Ford, who is on the Board of Directors for Conservation International and gives them large sums of moen,y if a republican.

ooookkaayyyy.

step away from the internet. slowly now...

[SoDesuKa]

142. Stooge, Not Pig

I've made this correction several times. Ford is a Republican stooge not a Republican pig. To me, the difference is pretty subtle because anybody who carries water for the Bush administration might as well be a Republican. However, his Democratic fans insist that the distinction is important. So be it.

[supernova]

139. I can't believe this thread is still going.

Ugh. Methingks SoDesuka is just jerking everybody's chain. ;-)

[SoDesuKa]

143. Those Wonderful Folks

Those wonderful folks from NBC News wouldn't lie about what's going on in the world, would they? I mean, they bring us shows like Meet the Press, don't they?

G.E. - We bring good things to life

Aircraft engines . . . financial services . . . home appliances . . . and now, right wing propaganda . . .

[supernova]

147. Chill man,

wait til they actually write the script. There is plenty to be pissed off about with stuff that does exist in the here and now (like contested elections, actual soldier dying every day), without getting worked up about things that haven't happened yet, such as a to-be movie script.

Here, have a :smoke:

[bratcatinok]

149. So are you also boycotting everything else G.E.

makes? No loans, no mortgages, no home appliances, don't ever fly.

If you are, you'll need to do some deep research about who really makes that Hoover or Eureka Vacumn Cleaner, same goes for washer's and dryer's and refrigerator's. Did I buy a Maytag or is it a product made by GE but labelled Maytag or Whirlpool?

You aren't even safe if you buy the generic light bulbs because G.E. might have made them too.

I'd sure like to know what bee got into your bonnet about Harrison Ford. Oh, and I'm sorry but I've read every post you've made on this thread and you still haven't managed to make me understand what has you bzzzzing and droning on.

[mcscajun]

152. So Do I .. That's Why I ordered PIZZA.

Supernova wrote: Methingks SoDesuka is just jerking everybody's chain.

Had it some time ago...

[St. Jarvitude]

146. Republican Scum!

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=CA&last=ford&first=harrison

Gee, look! That scumbag donated to McCain!!!! What a fucking puke hole, Republican stooge! :puke:

I guess since Mel Gibson is an action hero, and he's an undeniable Puke (no argument from me there), all of those damned action heroes must be out there to glorify war and they're all OBVIOUSLY Republican "pigs" and "stooges".

</sarcasm>

Get a grip, man. Any decent anti-war dramatic movie HAS to show combat scenes. Hell, have you SEEN any anti-war movies? Full Metal Jacket? Platoon? Apocalypse Now? Hell, Ford was even in Apocalypse Now (albeit in a bit part), perhaps the greatest anti-war movie ever made.

:eyes:

[ForrestGump]

148. Did you get ALL of your post count by posting the same message over

and over and over and over and over and over? That's one way to do it.

No point in me questioning your odd fixations, given that you haven't addressed anyone else's, but I'll add my voice to the multitudes who by now wish they could send a virtual slap-o-gram your way.

By the way, my fellow DUers, the original poster is correct in stating that Billy Joel is a pig. He was at one time a mere stooge and looked about to be downgraded to lackey (minion subcategory, sycophant specialty) but was abruptly promoted to Pig, First-Class, for his actions (up to and including baby eating and summer squash abusing) in Fallujah. Now you know.

[supernova]

154. lol!

One note wonder, the OP is.

I used to have a huge Billy Joel fetish, but I got over it. :evilgrin:

[rasputin1952]

155. Due to the decline in civility in this thread, I am locking it.

n/t