Reggie White: Not a hero

[Rabrrrrrr]

Reggie White: excellent football player.


There is a big difference between being excellent at playing football (or any sport, or any instrument, or any other skill), and being a hero.

The first is talent. The second is someone taking great personal risk that results in great gain for someone or someones else.

I'm sick and tired of people - the damned media be charged most egregiously with this offense - equating being talented with being a hero.

Please, people, can we please reserve the word hero for the people who really deserve it?

[RetroLounge]

1. Reggie White: A Homophobe and bigot

EOM

RL

[Uzybone]

4. He totally apologized for those comments

and according to Andrea Kramer of ESPN, he had drifted away from fundyism in recent years and was studying Hebrew because he decided that the so called "Christian" way was not the answer. He basically wanted to find God for himself. I admire that.

[arwalden]

9. Loud Bully-Pulpit Bigotry Planting The Seeds Of Hatred...

vs a mubled, whispered, half-hearted "apology"? That is by NO STRETCH of the imagination something that I would characterize as "totally apologizing" for his words and his advocacy and lobbying for public policy and laws that discriminated against gay Americans.

Hmmm... I WONDER WHICH HAD MORE EFFECT on his young fans? Did he bother to try and UNDO the damage he had done? NO! He was a pussy!

[Uzybone]

11. Do you think anyone got swayed by those remarks?

Do you think someone open to tolerance suddenly became A homophone once they heard Reggie White? I doubt it.

My point is that if he renounced those remarks and had backed away from the whole mindset which promotes it, why is he still being bashed?

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. Don't be a load of bricks shy of a load of bricks

Anyone open to tolerance? Why are worried about people who are open to tolerance? Of course, most likely, they wouldn't be swayed. But they are the wrong people to consider.

The proper question to ask is "Do you think someone who was sitting on the fence, or someone who wanted to hate gays but wasn't feeling it was right, became (whether "suddenly", as your loaded question put it, or not) a homophobe when they heard Reggie White?"

that's the intelligent question to ask. Not a nonsensical illogical question like yours.

And the answer is, YES, of course Reggie White's words would have swayed people: he was in a position of power. Because a lot of Americans, for some reason, are stupid enough to think that someone who plays a game really well (or makes a movie really well, or whatever) should be someone to look up to for behavioral patterns.

I have no douby that Reggie's comments helped sway a lot of people into hatred - not unhateful people, but the people who wanted and needed an excuse, or a leadership cue, to fully develop the hate they already felt.

[Uzybone]

16. Relax on the invective

I dont think Reggie swayed anyone. I also dont think you can be "on the fence" about homophobia. Maybe you once felt you were on the fence, but you are either tolerant or not. All you have to do is disagree. Try and settle down.

[CO Liberal]

36. I Am Never Tolerant of Homophobic Assholes

And that's what Reggie White was.

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. Actually, I was never on the fence. Not sure why you felt compelled to

suggest that I was, or that I felt I was.

But you don't think that there are people who are on the fence? Wow, you live in a myopic world. "You are either tolerant or you are not" - what about the millions of people who just really aren't sure? Oh, that's right. You've written them off already.

And any "invective" I might have used was well deserved, IMO, since you refused to embrace any sort of relevant logic in your post.

[arwalden]

18. Uzybone

>> "Do you think anyone got swayed by those remarks?" <<

Well, yes I do. It's something that's difficult to prove one way or the other. But only a fool would deny that for those impressionalble minds who may have been developing anti-gay sentiments (for whatever reason) Mr. White's words were affirmation and a negative reinforcement that it was A-OKAY to go ahead and hate fags.

>> Do you think someone open to tolerance suddenly became A homophone once they heard Reggie White? I doubt it. <<

Yes. I doubt that too. :eyes:

My apologies to you if it wasn't obvious that I was talking about YOUNG fans who were impressionable. If they are impressed enough to buy the shoes, razors, soup, or WHATEVER he endorses... they'll also buy the load of lies and HORSESHIT bigotry he spews out too.

>> My point is that if he renounced those remarks and had backed away from the whole mindset which promotes it, why is he still being bashed? <<

You can't UN-ring his bell of hatred. His words were spoken and the damage done. What did he do to UNDO the damage? What did he do to help people to understand that his faith-based bigotry was wrong?

His quiet whispered and mubled attempts in trying to distance himself from his words and actions do NOT make up for what he did. Had he been sincere, he would have done more and we would have heard MORE about his transformation BEFORE he died, instead of by a gaggle of apologists who are insensed that someone DARED to call a bigot a bigot.

The fact that he played sports, the fact that he's dead, the fact that he died the day after Xmas, and the fact that his bigotry was faith-based is STILL not a free pass for his hateful words and deeds.


edit: spelling

[Uzybone]

19. I agree...once said it cannot be unsaid

But I still don't think that means anyone who was ignorant and hateful in the past can never ever be redeemed. What I'm seeing is hate and rejoicing in the death of a football player who made minimal impact on people lives and who (according to reports) repented from his hateful comments and that entire viewpoint. No one is perfect, if he did indeed reject those statements then I forgive him.

But I will leave you guys to steam in your hatred. Hate is not a positive emotion. I think its classless and disgusting to dance on graves. But if it makes you happy....

[Misunderestimator]

20. Oh please.... it's not about swaying non-bigots to his side with his

homophobic remarks, but allowing those who are bigoted to revel in their bigotry in the open. With your logic, we shouldn't worry about Falwell or Phelps either. After all, they aren't swaying good people to evil are they? Or maybe they are.

As for apologizing, I heard that Charles Manson apologized, should we release him now?

[Uzybone]

21. No I dont worry about Falwell and Phelps

what can be done about them? We still have free speech, we cant shut them up. The solution is to educate those who are ignorant. Not to keep shouting left and right about Falwell and White etc. It just reinforces the idea that liberals are haters (as insanse as that sounds) and can do nothing but whine.

Manson?: homophobia is not a crime, lets not compare ignorance with murder.

[Misunderestimator]

25. Exactly... Educate people who don't understand what a bigot is.

And I'm not getting your last statement at all... Homophobia a crime, why of course not... what a silly thing to pretend I said. As for comparing ignorance with murder... nope not doing that either. Reggie was not ignorant... he was hateful.

As for shouting left and right about Falwell and hopefully educating some people who may be swayed by them, I suppose it's a better idea to just shut up and not criticize anyone.

"Reinforcing the idea that liberals are haters and can do nothing but whine" sounds like it was written by a RWer. I don't give a flying crap what a RWer thinks of me.

[CO Liberal]

34. Did He Do Anything About It?? NO!!!

Did he personally reach out to gay groups and seek their forgiveness? NO!!

Did he contribute financially to pro-gay organizations? NO!!!

Did he appear on talk shows to tell people not to listen to what he had said?? NO!!!!

Did he spew that homophobic crap on shows like the 700 Club? YES!!!

Did he only apologize to keep his lucratice endorsements? YES!!!

Was Reggie Whote a useless piece of crap? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bluebear]

10. Can you point me to where he "totally apologized"?

I would love to see his total apology! Thanks.

[Uzybone]

13. Sorry dont have a link

all I know is what was reported on ESPN. If they made it all up, then screw them. Franklly I could care less either way. He was only a football player.

[CO Liberal]

35. The Same Network That Hired Rush Limbaugh as a Commentator

I wouldn't believe it if they reported on ESPN that the sun came up tomorrow.

[CO Liberal]

33. To Which I Say "Bullshit!"

Reggie White was a hate-mongering homophobe. Period.

[Uzybone]

2. Reggie White :sports hero

Micheal Jordan: sports hero


I think those calling him a hero are calling him a sports hero. Nothing more nothing less.

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. No, I think they're calling him a hero

at least some of them are.

[eaprez]

3. I have that opinion every time I see a pre game promo....

...the music, the slow motion clips....making it look like some world altering event. Its a damn game.....the great drug of the masses..football.

[LeftCoast]

5. I don't understand how playing a damn game makes someone a hero

Does this actually make sense to anyone?

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Agreed. No hero. Great football player, who was misguided in his personal

beliefs. It's a shame that he was never able to change some of his more horrid ideas. I'll reserve my grave dancing and disgusting comments for someone who truly deserves it.

Us here at DU=sometimes sanctimonious idiots.

No one is perfect. I hope none of you are trying to claim that title.

[arwalden]

7. Why Do You Want The Baby Jesus To Cry?

He was a Christian... and if that doesn't make him a HERO then I don't know WHAT does! Do you hate Christians or something? Why must you bash? Why so much hate?

You're angry at something... what are you afraid of? The truth shall set you free! Is Mercury in retrograde?

-- Allen :hi:

I too hold the media responsible for elevating his celebrity status to that of "hero" and idolatry. Apparently his defenders and apologists don't realize that his words planted the seeds of anti-gay bigotry and hatred in the minds of yet another generation.

He was no hero! He was a self-absorbed, hypocritical, faith-based bigot.

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. Oh, God, that's right - my post was inherently anti-Christian

:-)

Actually, even without Reggie's statements and life, I wouldn't call him a hero, because he was, in the end, nothing more than a football player. I won't call him a hero any more than I would want people to call me a hero if I died today - I've not yet done anything remotely heroic, even though I've done a number of things quite excellently.

And I blame the media for elevating all sorts of idiots into hero level, and a couple years ago is when I became sick of it, and speak out against it when I can. We especially tend to do it with sports figures and celebrities. And I don't get it.

Oh, and the media does it with that dumbass asshole of a president all the time, too. "He was a such hero for going to Ground Zero" and "He's such a hero for defending America". Bullshit - he does nothing heroic. He sits in his office (on the days he decides to show up for work) and signs papers.

[Truman01]

24. No your post was inherently ignorant of what Reggie White

has done in his life. I'm amazed at how people here are willing to spout off about a man they hardly know because they know he made one statement he shouldn't have made. Reggie White was a caring and giving man who did more off the field than on the field. For those of us who had the privilege of knowing his actions, we don't have the problem of being "tolerant" as many of you do of a man's failings.

Give Reggie White a break, he is dead, and he did a lot of good you are totally unaware of.

TC

[Liberal Veteran]

26. One statement my ass!

Borrowing liberally from Allen's post and I hope he will forgive me.

Gays are like liars and cheaters


" 'Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race,' White said. 'People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing.' " - Reggie White, Associated Press, March 25, 1998.


Gays hurt children, kill our people


"White said he stands by his remarks regarding gays. `I am going to speak the truth and I am going to speak out against things that's hurting our children, that's killing off our people,' White said. `If people think that's a contradiction and that's hate, they need to take them up with God, not with Reggie White.'" Associated Press, April 26, 1998, quoting White's 20/20 interview.


Gays are like backstabbers and malicious people


PEGGY WEHMEYER of ABC's 20/20: "Just last week, Reggie White and his wife, Sara, met us for an exclusive interview. White told us he was sorry if he offended anyone, but he wasn’t backing down one inch. (on camera) Are you saying there that homosexuals are like liars, cheaters, backstabbers and malicious people?"
REGGIE WHITE "Yes." - ABC's 20/20, April 27, 1998.


"Sodomite community"


"Reggie White's wife said CBS was `'too scared'' to hire her husband as a football commentator because of his controversial speech before the Wisconsin State Assembly. White, the Green Bay Packers defensive lineman who retired and unretired last week, used ethnic stereotypes and called homosexuality `'one of the biggest sins'' in the Bible in his remarks last month. 'They were too scared of the Sodomite community is what they said,' Sara White told ABC's '20/20'." - ASSOCIATED PRESS, April 26, 1998


Gays responsible for STDs


"America is not big enough to shake her fist in the face of a holy God and get away with it, and as I read this I want to explain something. I'm going to read this and then I want to explain something. As America has permitted homosexuality to establish itself as an alternate lifestyle, it is also reeling from the frightening spread of sexually transmitted disease. Sin begets its own consequence, both on individuals and nations."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.


Homosexuality one of the biggest sins


"Let me explain something when I'm talking about sin, and I'm talking about all sin. One of the biggest ones that has been talked about that has really become a debate in America is homosexuality."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.


Gays have problems


"Now, I believe that one of the reasons that Jesus was accused of being a homosexual is because he spent time with homosexuals. I've often had people ask me, would you allow a homosexual to be your friend. Yes, I will. And the reason I will is because I know that that person has problems, and if I can minister to those problems, I will."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.


Being gay compared to lying, gays hurt nation


"But the Bible strictly speaks against it, and because the Bible speaks against it, we allow rampant sin including homosexuality and lying, and to me lying is just as bad as homosexuality, we've allowed this sin to run rampant in our nation, and because it has run rampant in our nation, our nation is in the condition it is today."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.


Offended that gays say deserve rights


"Sometimes when people talk about this sin they've been accused of being racist. I'm offended that homosexuals will say that homosexuals deserve rights. Any man in America deserves rights, but homosexuals are trying to compare their plight with the plight of black men or black people. In the process of history, homosexuals have never been castrated, millions of them never died. Homosexuality is a decision. It's not a race."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

[arwalden]

27. Oh... But They Were "Innocent" Comments...

and he really didn't mean it. :eyes: Yes, if it's faith-based bigotry, it's supposed to be okay.


Good Riddance!

[Misunderestimator]

28. LMFAO!!!

Thanks! You're the best. :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[CO Liberal]

37. Not One Statement - Dozens

Dozens of statements that spoke more of his character than anything else he did in his life.

Face it - Reggie White was a hate-filled homophobe who is neither deserving of praise nor respect in his passing. May he rot in hell.

[Truman01]

40. I had personal dealings with him. He may have been a

homophobe but I never saw it. And the only hate I see on here is the hate coming from people like you. Apparently its ok for you to hate, it's black homophobes that can't hate. I saw a lot of the very good things he did. I don't defend his statement or his position on gays, but if you had any idea of what he was like, and you don't, you wouldn't wish ill on him and he wouldn't wish ill on you.

We, the tolerant liberals, are often the hatemongers. That makes me ashamed.

TC

[CO Liberal]

41. Damn Right

No one is allowed to spew crap intended to incite others to hate. That's what Reggie White did. I don't give a damn whether you had personal dealings with him or not - I for one will not be mourning his passing.

[fluffernutter]

8. I agree.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Thank you, Rabrrrrrr

The over-glorification of athletes in this culture is sickening.

For years it's fried me that even ordinary high school and college athletes get written up in the paper on a daily basis, as do young criminals, but young artists, musicians, actors, writers, crafts people, charity volunteers, and others making contributions to society have to be earth-shakingly outstanding before the public is even informed of their existence.

A hero is someone who does something for someone else, often at personal risk. That might mean crawling through a minefield to rescue a wounded buddy or organizing workers in an anti-union environment or going to a war zone to work with refugees.

It does not mean being paid millions of dollars to do something you already enjoy doing.

[48pan]

22. I Think it Depends on Your Point of View

White could have retired and enjoyed his money. He instead chose to become a minister. Many Christians consider him a hero. Others consider him a bigot.

[Liberal Veteran]

23. How come we never hear about other "talent heroes"?

You know, like Freddy Mercury the "rock hero"?

Or Liberace...the "piano hero".

Or Einstein, the "science hero".

Or Bette Davis the "actor hero".

Or Stephen King the "author hero".

Somehow we put sports stars up on some pedestal and it seem so silly to me.

What great risk did any of those sports heroes take?

[Uzybone]

29. Its sports terminology

just like referring to games as battles and wars. Or calling great players warriors. Especially in football. If you dont like them you dont have to.

[Liberal Veteran]

30. I think it cheapens the word "hero".

A hero is someone who puts their life at great risk for another or someone who saves a lot of lives through brilliance (like Jonas Salk).

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. Absolutely! And that's my point.

I wish people would fucking read.

[rasputin1952]

42. I am locking this thread....

it has deteriorated into a flamefest.

Thank you for your understanding.