The Green Bay Packers Are Pissing Off Some Vietnam Vets

[THUNDER HANDS]

by lowering the flags at Lambeau Field to half staff for the passing of Reggie White.

But it should also be noted that the team did the same thing when Brett Favre's dad died last year and nobody complained.

Double standard?

You be the judge.

Personally, I don't think you're supposed to fly the flag when a football player or anyone other than the President or high government official dies, right?

[Fenris]

1. Flags shouldn't be lowered for professional athletes

[Forkboy]

2. yeeesh

fucking shmucks.

Fly the Packers flag at half mast.White doesn't even deserve that but at least I could understand that.Flying the American flag at half mast is insulting as hell.

[ThorsHammer]

5. Seconded; I posted the same idea on the G.D. board (nt)

[Book Lover]

3. The Flag Code is somewhat convoluted, however,

the flag should only be flown at half-mast for certain government and military persons. Then again, the flag stamp is also a technical violation of the Flag Code, so what are ya gonna do?


http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#1


The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection -

the term "half-staff" means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;

the term "executive or military department" means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and

the term "Member of Congress" means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

[nicolemrw]

6. i think this is vague enough

to permit flying the flag at half-mast in almost any situation:

"or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law." (from somewhere in the middle of the post above)

[Book Lover]

7. No; the initial clause reads,

"In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries..." which Mr White was not.

[nicolemrw]

8. "other officials"

is pretty vague too, though. its pushing it, but i think you could make a case.

fire houses fly their flag at half mast when a fireman dies.

[Book Lover]

9. At the risk of sounding cold-hearted, that is a technical violation

So is your flag lapel pin, your flag picnic napkins at your Fourth of July picnic, the flag used as art in any advertisement, Kid Rock's flag shirt at the '04 Super Bowl...

[Streetdoc270]

13. Dont forget GW's signing a flag

Thats a big no-no

[Book Lover]

35. VERY big no-no

Writing on the flag is a firm sign of disrespect... Or of a stupid pigheadedness that belies one's poor upbringing. But I digress.

[CO Liberal]

4. Maybe to Properly Honor Reggie White....

...they could get the KKK to burn half a cross.

:-)

[Forkboy]

10. *SNARF*

:D

[arwalden]

11. Funny!

[LDS Jock]

24. will you be leading the rally?

[jonnyblitz]

33. LMFAO!!

:P

[mitchum]

46. LMAO!!!

nicely done :)

[fishnfla]

48. They burned one of his churches in the 90's

Back when it wasnt just a racist joke.

He put up alot of money and spoke up about it too, helped put an end to the bombing of black churches across the South.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

70. Yeah

And as I understand it, the money he helped raise sort of disappeared along with the minister.

[jellybelly]

51. the kkk would do it...

if he hated gays or not.

That comment is really unneccessary. Hate him in a different way.

[CO Liberal]

55. The Way I See It, Reggie Was Unnecessary

The world is a better place with him gone.

[jellybelly]

64. I'm sure he influenced

the gay movement?:shrug:

People who are racists, who plot the murders of others...are unnecessary, not an ignorant man who probably never even met a gay person in his life.

My best friend is gay and he is the greatest person in the world. My mom always had underlying homophobic feelings but after she met him she fell in love. I am also going to marry an Egyptian muslim man, and most of my family is very anti-muslim so I was scared to introduce him. You know they love him more than they love me.:cry:

[CO Liberal]

67. But Does Anyone In Your Family....

...publically advocate the hating of others? That's what Reggie did.

[NightTrain]

61. Somehow, I don't think the KKK would honor a black man...

...even if he did share some of their views! :eyes:

[oly]

12. Damn celebrity worship.

[redqueen]

25. SUCKS, dunnit?

Makes me wonder about people sometimes ...

[LeftCoast]

14. Just shows how fucked up the priorities are in this country

I will say it again, being a football player does NOT make you a hero.

[Debi]

34. Unless your name is Pat Tillman

let's give some credit there

[JohnKleeb]

38. Indeed

but I will go further and say there are some, I don't know if White did or not but many pro athletes give back to the communnity in a lot of ways, White wasn't a hero of mine but who knows, maybe how he played the game inspired some kid in a poor neighborhood to be a football player, and the kid went on to play football in high school and got a scholarship to a good college as a result, now thats not a direct hero but I can see why someone could consider someone like that a hero.

[Debi]

41. I don't want to get the shit kicked out of me....

and I haven't gotten in to all the Reggie White is a bastard posts.

But he did somewhat get his due (at least I think) when the WI legislature invited him to speak (solely because of his pro-ball prowess) and he got verbal diarrhea. That stunt ended his political career.

Maybe he did go on to do great volunteer things or work w/his church (fundee or not).

But for the rest of America, Reggie White jumped the shark on that day (I know old sentiment, but fitting for him at the time).

I just meant that a person can be a pro-ball player AND a hero (just not a hero because they play ball)

[JohnKleeb]

53. I wasnt upset by what you said

I think we actually agree. Is your point that White may be a hero to some one while being a pro football player?

[LeftCoast]

60. Tillman became a hero through his actions

not by being a football player...In fact, turning his back on football was one of the things that I feel make him heroic.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

72. Oh, please

So he gives up a fat job to go be an undertrained, incompetent soldier who gets shot by his own brethren, and that makes him a hero?

Bullshit.

There are no heroes in this one. Everyone's a victim.

[saltpoint]

15. Next time a station clerk dies at JC Penny's or JiffyLube --

-- I want that goddam flag lowered pronto.

[txaslftist]

16. It's their flag, it's their stadium....

so this is a non-issue. White was a hell of a football player, its a football stadium in a state where the churches shift their activities to avoid conflicting with Sunday games. Let'em fly it at half mast if they want. What's the harm?

Unless all the sudden we're on the SBVFT team?

[tcfrogs]

19. Good points n/t

[incapsulated]

17. I don't care what anyone does with the flag

It's our fucking flag, the American flag, the peoples flag.

If they wanna lower it for Reggie, let them.

[Uzybone]

43. Amen

thanks for saying that.

[madison2000]

18. We've lost 33 in WI so the flags are at half staff most of the time anyway

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. In the other thread, someone suggested

only lowering the Packers flag. Sounds like a good solution to me.

[ThorsHammer]

50. Thanks, that was me, and forkboy said the same here

I think that's the best way to go too. The U.S. flag should be lowered for presidents, dignitaries, or national events, not for a normal celebrity. Lowering the Packers flag respects White, and is much more appropriate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. I couldn't agree more.

[SKKY]

21. I'm a veteran, and what offends me about this is that...

...people are getting offended about it. LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP!!!!! Reggie White is a Packer legend for Christ's sake! Did anyone get pissed or have a conniption fit when the Cardinals lowered the flag to half-mast for Pat Tillman? Let it go people. Sorry for the flame-spray folks but petty stuff like this annoys me. We've got much bigger fish to fry.

[JimmyJazz]

22. Hallelujah! Holy Shit! Where's the Tylenol?

Seriously - people are acting like he was the devil incarnate. We're supposed to be the compassionate ones, remember???

[JohnKleeb]

23. I know

:hi:
BTW did you hear about the invisible person who got killed, they don't know what they looked like, whether they were famous or not, or their politics if they had any, so I am undecided whether to mourn or not :).

[LDS Jock]

28. sounds like something for sale on ebay

[JohnKleeb]

31. Its satire

:). Really, the cops found them dead, and they don't know whether the person was good looking, left wing or right wing, or famous or not, so I am trying to find out whether I should mourn or not.

[LDS Jock]

37. i got it was satire

silly boy :P.. but thanks for clearing it up for me

[JohnKleeb]

40. sure, sure

[Debi]

36. Were they a supermodel?

Otherwise they don't count

[JohnKleeb]

39. I dont know

I dont even know the gender.

[LDS Jock]

26. I remember.. but you are me are in the minority here

apparently not everyone here knows the left is supposed to be compassionate

[JohnKleeb]

27. people were acting like it was no big deal that petra nemcova

was affected by the tsuamii and stuff too, the poor woman lost her boyfriend in it, I also recall people being dicks when Dick Enberg head of CBS Sports lost his son who was only 14 in a plane crash. Yes, they were wealthy but tragedy affects us all.

[redqueen]

29. Oh John...

I think you might need to revisit that thread and reasses the sentiments being expressed.

Nobody said it was no big deal.

*huge fucking sigh*

[JohnKleeb]

32. Ok my bad, sorry I misread

but did people act insensitive? I think they did, sorry for my misinterperation of it all.

[NightTrain]

63. Sorry, but I reserve my compassion for people who deserve it.

Here's an example:

Tens of thousands of Asians killed or whose lives were torn apart by deadly tidal waves: deserving of my compassion.

A multi-millionaire pro football player who openly preached hatred of people based only on their sexual orientation: undeserving of my compassion, even if he did the world a favor by dying young.

[JohnKleeb]

66. You don't need to feel sorry for him

or even have compassion but there is no need to demonize the dead. I feel more sorry for those Asians yes but I do feel some sorrow for White because he probably impacted someone's life, I read what he had to say about gays and to be honest, it was sickening but I won't demonize him especially when he's recently passed away.

[JimmyJazz]

69. I understand. I feel compassion for those people, too.

I just don't compartmentalize my compassion. He has a family who is mourning him right now. I feel for them. I'm sorry if that offends you.

[JohnKleeb]

74. Thanks, that part of what I mean

White was a father and a husband, and to some kid I bet he was a hero, I had my sports heroes growing up, it would hurt me if I lost them too.

[JimmyJazz]

75. You rock, Young Kleeb - you are one of my favorite people for a

reason. I admit that the man was flawed, but he's dead and his family misses him.

[JohnKleeb]

76. Of course, I am not denying he was flawed either

but he was someone's father and husband and I feel for it, if I had lost my father at the age White died, I would have only been 6, and my closest brother in age 3, it's tough to lose your parents no matter how privileged you are. Check yer PMs btw.

[NightTrain]

80. You don't offend me at all!

I certainly don't fault the man's family because *he* held ideas that I found despicable. I just can't bring myself to mourn his death. As far as I'm concerned, there's now one less person in the world to hate people like my gay roommate.

[fortyfeetunder]

42. you're right, it's a Packer thang

If it is the Packer organization's prerogative to honor Reggie White in that manner, then so be it. Reggie White was instrumental in contributing to the Packers SB successes.

OTOH, if Dubya asked for all USA flags to be at half mast....then I might take issue with that...

[fujiyama]

30. I think they lowered

the flag at my university when some faculty member died.

I see nothing wrong with the place where he played to have lowered their flag.

[HuckleB]

45. I don't see why it should matter so much.

Maybe that's callous, but the flag does belong to every American, not just veterans, whom I respect and thank from the very bottom of my being.

Personally, I think it's goofy that the Packers do this. They've done it twice already this year for past players/employees, so it's not like White is getting special treatment. But, just because I think it's goofy doesn't mean I think it should offend anyone.

We had to put up with flags at half-staff for more than a month after Reagan died. If we had to do that for someone as destructive to this nation as Reagan, then we probably should do it for every US citizen at his or her passing.

[Left Is Write]

54. That's the way it is with presidents, though.

Whether we liked him or not, it's 30 days at half staff for dead presidents.

[HuckleB]

56. That doesn't mean it should be that way.

Why not do the same for all public servants?

It sure doesn't seem very democratic.

[Left Is Write]

57. I didn't make the rules, but I imagine it's because

the president is the Big Guy. The Big Cheese. The Head Honcho. It's a very small number of people compared to ALL public servants. The flag would be at half-staff an awful lot of the time if it were lowered for the death of every public servant, current or former.

It's entirely possible that states DO lower flags for their own governors, senators, etc, but the president is representative of the entire country.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

73. I'll see you, and I'll raise you

Fuckface upside-down for sixty days, alive.

[mitchum]

44. He was just a fucking overpaid football player

Why fly the flag at half-mast?

[fishnfla]

47. Wait a minute: just Vietnam Vets? why is that?

What vets are you talking about? The POW/MIA flag flies at Lambeau BTW

[jellybelly]

49. huh?

They lowered flags when a player's DAD died?:wtf:
Weren't there complaints?

[fishnfla]

58. He was a white man nt

Irv Favre

[jellybelly]

65. They didn't complain because he was white...

I think you're right...:cry:

[NightTrain]

59. They lowered the American flag over a dead athlete?

Would they have done the same thing for a dead artist? Or a dead cardio-vascular surgeon? Or a dead scientist? Christ almighty...!

[Uzybone]

62. Probably not

dead artists didn't bring Superbowl championships to Lambeau.


Its their flag, its their stadium, they can lower it for whoever they wish.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

68. All the grave-pissers should also stop and think that, despite the

vile VILE horrible things he said... he was quite charitable in his actions. He WAS a hero to some, not due to a football game, but the help he offered in his community. I am sure he did far more for the communities that he worked with than most of the posters wishing him a fiery damnation in hell. He really was NOT evil personified. Just something to consider...

[Bluebear]

71. Football MUST be a religion in Wisconsin

First of all I celebrate no one's death, but I have never seen people bend quite so backwards to rehabilitate this guy's image.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

79. It's not about worshiping the man, it's about what the media spoon feeds us

A few of the people of this state have SEEN the good he's DONE in addition to hearing the horrors he spoke. Many people in other regions have the majority (or all) of their opinions based on words he spoke. I am not celebrating his life, but I am not chastising and seeking to offend those who do, nor am I dancing or defecating on his grave.

[JimmyJazz]

77. I knew there was a reason why I love you!

:hi: You fuckin' rock, Cyndee Lou Who!

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

78. I am biting my tongue.

:hi: sweetie!! How are you?