DU social workers/psychologists/counselors

[ikojo]

I work for an HMO and in my job I add provider demographic information into the database. I am responsible for loading mental health providers...more and more I am seeing that some specialize in "Christian Counseling."

What is "Christian Counseling"? Is it taking the Christian bible out and reading some verses and praying? I am NOT asking about Christian Science Practitioners but THERAPISTS who say they specialize in CHRISTIAN counseling.

Insurance companies are loath to pay for treatment related to autism but they will pay for CHRISTIAN COUNSELING...

[trof]

1. Easy Peasey:

They are able to tell you what GOD wants you to do.

Sorry...sometimes I just can't take any more.
:eyes:

[melnjones]

3. Sigh...

I'm gonna try to not get angry at that...Please see my post, it's #2.

[trof]

8. 1. Thanks for the "not angry".

and welcome to DU.
:hi:
I don't mean to anger or offend.
It's just that I've been an atheist for about the last 50 or so years and the idea/sound of "Christian counseling" makes my teeth go edgy.
If it works for Christians, fine, I guess.
No harm intended.
No foul?
;-)

[melnjones]

17. No foul whatsoever:-)

And I do understand your hesitancy, really I do. In my work as a client with Christian counselors, I have had to work through a lot of just awful stuff that I've witnessed and experienced myself within the church. It's amazing what people will say or do in the name of God...sick really. I just struggle too when my own Christian beliefs draw me to a website like DU because I agree with so much of what's here, yet my faith, which is the core of my very being, is constantly criticized due to the stereotype that Christians have earned. Just trying to make sure people know that we're not all right-winged wackos:-)

[trof]

34. Point well taken.

Miz t. is a believer.
We will celebrate our 34th anniversayr next April.
She was raised Catholic, now Episcopalian.
Couldn't go along with much of the Catholic dogma.
I think the ceremony of the Episcopal church gives her some solace and feeling of belonging without all the parts she dislikes.

We have "agreed to disagree" about religion, althought we do get into some interesting discussions from time to time.

From my early upbringing I have Christian beliefs, although I do not believe in a diety.

I believe the Golden Rule is just about the best way a person can live.

[Ladyhawk]

27. I've had "Christian Counseling"

Basically, they use dogma to tell you that you're not "right with God" and that's why you're suffering. I hate 'em, personally. :(

[melnjones]

32. That really sucks...

I hate that some people work that way. Sorry you had a bad experience :-(

[melnjones]

2. Great question...

I'm a social worker and have been a client, so here are my thoughts. Like anything, you will have a few Christian counselors who are wacko. That's just the way the world works unfortunately. Otherwise, my experience with Christian counselors is that they are simply open to discussing their own Biblical beliefs, and if the client is open to it, they will approach work from a Biblical perspective. Also, from what I've seen, it's been a non-judgemental, loving Biblical perspective that still gives the client every right to self-determination and doesn't discriminate if the client disagrees. Personal views of the therapist are given only when they will be helpful to the client given the situation. I have been a client of Christian counselors myself and they are wonderful. So basically my answer is that what exactly Christian counseling is depends on the needs of the clients. It simply implies an openness to a certain belief and faith framework. Truth be told, for myself personally, I would ONLY see Christian counselors. It is just what works best for me. I'm willing to answer any more questions as well.

On edit...The Christian counselors I have met (in a wide array of situations and circumstances given my profession and the fact that I've also been a client) are some of the most non-judgemental people I have ever seen. They are often far more "liberal" than the Conservative Christian stereotype. They are just as highly trained as "non-Christian" therapists, all with a minimum of a masters degree.

[ikojo]

5. Thanks for your insight...here is a website

I found...

American Association of Christian Counselors

http://www.aacc.net/

As long as they are not proselytizing I have no problem with it. I suppose people want to see someone with similar beliefs as theirs.

[melnjones]

9. No problem...

I looked at the website you just mentioned, and have a word of caution...often times the main website of any association can be a little corny:-) I have been hesitant to join the NASW (national association of social workers) for that same reason. Thanks for your open-mindedness as well!

[BigMcLargehuge]

46. The Mrs. and I visited a "Christian" councellor

when we had some marriage issues. He was very, very, very good and use biblical parables on occasion to help illustrate his thoughts on our problems. This was more helpful for the Mrs. than it was for me because she is a methodist whereas I am atheist, but he was able to forego the Christian stuff when talking to me and didn't make prayer or worship a part of the therapy at all.

In all I liked him very much, and as for the quality of his councelling, Mrs. McLargehuge and I are still together five years after our councelling ended.

I tend to think the idea of "Christian" councelling is more of a marketing term than an actual approach, at least in my experience, and us used to help those who cannot seem to turn to their clergy for therapy or assistance feel comfortably with a psychologist. This is not a bad thing, IMHO, and may help many people, couples, etc who otherwise would not seek out help for their problems.

I only have two cents on this matter, and that's them.

[TaleWgnDg]

4. What is "Christian Counseling?" . . .

It's whatever the hell proselytizing "Christians" can get away with . . . in order to grab the uninitiated, the uneducated, and/or the dysfunctional; and in order to be paid by insurance carriers for their proselytizing.

In other words, it's something to avoid.


.

[melnjones]

6. keep in mind

that Christian counselors have to adhere to the same code of ethics that any other counselor or therapist has to, including the right to self-determination. Your comments are out of ignorance. All of the Christian counselors I have met are pretty sick of all the crap that happens in the church and through the church as well, including the horribly abusive and un-loving practices that happen in the name of "proselytizing."

[TaleWgnDg]

15. The problem is that "counseling" varies state-to-state and that

The problem is that "counseling" varies state-to-state and that most states lack appropriate laws to restrain religion-into-legitimate American Psychological Association or American Psychiatric Association ethics.

No where should psychiatry or psychology be mixed in a base of religion to pass as psychiatric or psychological "counseling."

Ignorant, you say? No, I am very well aware of the legal and professional requirements to achieve legitimate board psychology or psychiatry credentials. I suggest you try your religious proselytizing elsewhere.

Next up, these frauds will be RFP's for Georgie's faith-based programs! Enough of this crap!



.

[melnjones]

28. You are forgetting

the entire category of licenced clinical social workers, who make up the majority of counselors and therapists and are not under the APA. I was referring to the NASW code of ethics.

You are right that the definition of counseling varies from state to state. If speaking of therapists, I am talking about those who have a masters degree or higher in counseling, therapy, or social work. By NASW standards, that is what is needed to be a "counselor."

"I suggest you try your religious proselytizing elsewhere."
Well, since that was the entire point of everything I have posted here thus far, ok. Note my sarcasm.

[MichiganVote]

36. NASW has some of, if not the most encompassing ethical rules

[trof]

16. But there's this:

I have an acquaintance who lives right down the street.
She is a professional child counselor.
She also sends me bible quotes about homosexuals and how they are going to hell.
She is just nuts about George Bush.
I pity the kids she "counsels".

[melnjones]

24. I pity them as well...

Like I said above, you will have some wackos in any profession or specialization or whatever. I would never in a million years see a counselor who did anything like what you just described.

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. No, the legitimate ones will call themselves "Christian Counselors"

The scammers and assholes will call themselves "Bible-based counselors" or something to that effect. Thankfully, the liberal counselors who have educations from accredited schools and who went through accredited counseling certification took the name "Christian Counseling" before the fundies had a chance.

All it really is is regular counseling that also realizes the importance of a person's faith life (if the person has one) and incorporates that into the counseling. Not proselytizing at all, and a Christian counselor can just as easily work with a Jew or a Muslim or Athiest as he/she can with a Christian.

[MichiganVote]

38. Nonsense. Therapists have worked w/clients for eons

adressing matters of faith w/o calling themselves "Christian counselors". Stop misleading people.

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm...................okay.

I didn't say anything against that, and of course it's true.

I'm not really sure why you felt like brining up the obvious and irrelevant at this point, but so be it. You did, and there it is. Thanks for the reminder of what is, really, a pretty obvious truth.

Perhaps it's time to unwind your undies.

Would have been just as relevant to remind everyone that their computer keyboards have a "return" or "enter" key.

[MichiganVote]

42. Because the obvious is never irrelevant Rabrrrr.

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. No, but stating it sometimes is. Like in this case.

No one here, that I've read, has said anything remotely to the contrary of what you said.

So why bother to bring it up? It's a total non-point, and there was no reason for stating it.

Not that I can tell.

[MichiganVote]

45. On the contrary. When it comes to therapy or the choice of a therapist

people experience all kinds of anxieties. No matter how we agree or disagree, if someone benefits from stating the obvious, how could or would it matter to you. It seems to me you took offense when I suggested you were misleading people. Well, let's assume you weren't. Ok, apologies and all that and enough said. But let's assume that you inadvertently were, then my response is at least as well intentioned as yours.

Be that as it may, have good evening.

[MichiganVote]

7. What is Christian counseling?

Its marketing pure and simple. Usually associated with some Christian or New Age sounding business name. There is no specialization in Christian counseling people. Anymore than there is any specialization of non-Christian counseling.

[ikojo]

10. On the applications I see it sounds like a specialty

They will list
ADD
ADHD
Schizophrenia
Christian Counseling.
etc.

Maybe they mean to say the approach therapy from a Christian point of view. I dunno.

[MichiganVote]

14. I repeat. There is no speciality in Christian Counseling.

[trof]

11. Now that makes sense.

You sound like you know whereof you speak.

[MichiganVote]

21. 15 years and counting as a therapist and Social Worker

The fact that some may confront clients with biblical verse or other advice from a biblical source hardly makes one a 'Christian' or a 'Christian counselor'. HMO's and others have not failed to pay "Christian" counselors b/c they are presumed to utilize standard treatment practices as conferred by their degree status.

[madrchsod]

13. would your HMO pay for

Mohammad/Islamic/Muslim counseling or (opps)Jewish- Shinto-Hindu-Buddhist-Coptic-Confucius counseling?

[ikojo]

18. I have not seen any other religion referenced as a

specialty on the mental health applications, only Christian Counseling. I assume most insurance companies would pay for a Christian Science Practitioner, but when I processed claims those services all required prior authorization.

[trof]

22. Oh! That's just not FAIR!

Or is it?
hmmmm
;-)

[melnjones]

23. Unfortunately, probably not,

although I believe it would be a mistake not to. If they have the credentials, I'm all for it.

[TaleWgnDg]

25. More appropriately, will the American taxpayer be paying

More appropriately, will the American taxpayer be paying for these frauds? We are in "substance abuse counseling" . . . How stupid can it get?

There is no uniform regulations of these characters, state-to-state, and they get away with . . . what they can get away with . . . mixing religion too? ROFLMAO . . .

Wake UP, America!!


.

[Bertha Venation]

19. My first therapist was a Christian. Here's what "Christian counseling" was

when I was seeing him:

He was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian. I was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian. He was my therapist. That's it.

I would imagine that some, if not most, "Christian counselors" advertise themselves as such in order to offer their services to like-minded individuals.

[melnjones]

30. Well stated. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

20. "Christian counseling" can mean a range of things.

Some "Christian counselors" are legitimate psychotherapists who provide counseling with a specific doctrinal background, and who may work for an organization like Lutheran Social Services. For example, they might use cog-behavioral Tx for depression or anxiety like any counselor would, but are forbidden to counsel anyone to get an abortion or to suggest divorce.

Other "Christian counselors" may come from a strongly fundamentalist perspective and teach that mental illness results from demon possession. Many of these people strongly oppose methods like hypnosis, guided imagery & EMDR because these methods supposedly open the client to Satan.

As a general but very rough rule, if the therapist has state licensure/certification and is working for a mainline church organization, he/she is probably legitimately providing psychotherapy. If the person has no credentials other than certification from somewhere as a "Christian counselor," he/she is probably a quack with a religious agenda.

I'm a psychologist, and definitely not a Christian. I know (and have clinically supervised) Christian therapists whom I would recommend to anyone, and whom I might especially recommend to fuzzy-thinking, guilt-ridden Fundies. I also know "Christian counselors" whom I consider dangerous to the mental health of their clients.

One of the most destructive "Christians" I ever ran into had no obvious church affiliation and did not come labelled as a "Christian counselor" In this case I was counseling a young man who had survived sexual abuse by four different priests in his youth. Most of my work was aimed at resolving his PTSD. One of the issues that we were working on was his growing realization that he is gay. He could not accept this about himself, and I spent a lot of time & energy trying to get him to accept & acknowledge his sexuality. I was making some progress but he ended up going to a local M.D. (for treatment of physical health issues) who turned out to be a religious conservative who verbally flogged the client for his homosexuality, convinced him that he was evil, and entirely destroyed my work and my therapeutic relationship with the client. This M.D. does not bill himself as a Christian-anything, and works for a local for-profit HMO.

[ikojo]

26. Wow! What a sad, sad story.

My brother could not accept his homosexuality either and he killed himself at age 36.

I hope your former client fares better than my brother.

[MichiganVote]

29. Jackpine, therapists must abide by State ethical guidelines

Referring to your earlier statement,

"Other "Christian counselors" may come from a strongly fundamentalist perspective and teach that mental illness results from demon possession." Please note, a therapist is not qualified to determine this and is acting in an unethical manner to do so w/o appropriate methods of investigation or intervention. (Rule out environmental reasons for a subjects behavior, physical ailments and consultation with reputable pastoral sources are just a few of the required steps)

Therapists who oppose methods like hypnosis, guided imagery & EMDR do so for a variety of reasons. Hyponosis, guided imagery and EMDR do not, I repeat, they do not open the mind to anything or anyone dangerous. Any counselor who believes that is not a reputable therapist.

[melnjones]

31. Part of the problem here

is how easy it is to confuse counseling and therapy with "pastoral counseling," which is very different and IS within a church setting. Not necessarily a bad thing, but very different and probably not under the same code of ethics.

[MichiganVote]

35. Pastoral counseling also is assumed to follow ethical mandates

[madison2000]

33. Have you ever seen the "Christian Business Directory"?

I think these are all over the place now. Counseling I can understand, but WALLPAPERING?
What is "Christian Rug Cleaning"?
What is "Christian Auto Repair"?
What is "Christian Office Supply rental"?


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[melnjones]

37. Truly amazing

and quite sad, IMO. A little scary as well.

[tjdee]

39. It's like the "buy blue" thing at DU, for example.

Christians think they won't get ripped off if the person they're doing business with is a Christian, and like I said...it's kind of similar to the way some DUers try to support organizations whose people support Dems.

Of course, anybody can just go "I'm a Christian painter/office supply person/whatever"....

[madison2000]

41. But anyone can say that they are a Christian

and that doesn't mean they won't rip you off or that their work is better than other people who make no such claims.

I don't have a problem with a Black Business Directory or a Womens Business Directory- its a way of showing economic support to certain groups if you choose to. But I don't see this group as disadvantaged and it strikes me as utterly irrelevant to their services. Seeing someone in this directory might make people assume they are Republican. You don't see the liberal churches in there, and there is a counselor for homosexuals listed who will try to change them. The political stance is there, although that doesn't mean everyone listed realizes that.

[tjdee]

44. I don't think it's a disadvantaged thing...

I think it's a more Republican "I want to associate with X kind of people" thing.

I agree, anyone can say they're a Christian. :shrug: