Ah! A BC separation group is trying to draft me!

[HEyHEY]

I was interested in doing a news story on them, now the guy wants to talk to me about P-R work. It's not a bad thing, it isn't a party of nuts or anything, but I don't want to throw my journalistic integrity out the window...hmmm. Plus I've become less and less of a separatist latley...hmm. What to do, I doubt I'll do it, seems too life altering for not much pay-back. Your thoughts?

[Armstead]

1. Not if you're still a journalist..

Not knowing your situation this is just a genral thought.

But if you are a working journalist you gotta be careful about those lines.

Or, what I do occasionally, is to justvmakes sure there's a bog wall betrween what you write about professionally and any extra cirricular activities.

[HEyHEY]

3. Yeah...I'm freelance now..

Because I am young and would rather make money working for a publisher while building up a name and career freelance style. That I don't have to go to some tiny shitbog town to make $10 an hour for five years.

But, if I'm just writing press releases and such things I can't see any harm, but then if something big comes up I won't be able to cover it.

Then there is the possiblity of running for the party in the future. But they won't win and it could be a big waste of time. But I don't wanna be a bandwagon jumper, and I want to stick to a conviction..ah!

[Maple]

2. If you get involved with that

you will be years and years trying to get rid of the 'nutbar' label.

You know it has no chance...why do that to yourself then?

[HEyHEY]

4. That's the thing

This group isn't a nutbar group. They are trying to make the party as acceptable to the province as possible. But again, I am not the piss and vinegar separatist I once was.

[Maple]

5. Any separatist group in Canada

in any province, is a 'nutbar' group by definiton.

People just scoff at them.

BC is a have-not province, and can't make it alone now...it joined confederation for a reason. It will stay for the same one.

Journalists should stay out of any party or group. Conflict of interest otherwise.

[HEyHEY]

6. ah I disagree

We are have-not for federal reasons. We only hit the have not by 75 million...we gave twice that in gas taxes that we never recieved back. Plus Ottawa dragging on softwood lumber (sort of) and the salmon treaty. These are the things that piss off BCers. Plus we may be scoffed at in Ontario...but a little known fact is that I promise you if a decent separatist party came up here, they would get at least 45 per cent of the vote. I say this because almost every person I know is for separation.

(Let's get this straight I have no problem with actual Eastern Canada, I just have issues with the federal government)

[Maple]

7. Oh don't give me all that razzmatazz

BC depends on resources in the info-tech era.

And Ottawa has nothing to do with any of it.

All polls show less than 4% support for separatism. Just a few elderly cranks.

Coffee shop talk is not the same as actually doing anything.

You couldn't begin to afford separation.

[HEyHEY]

8. Well first off

We cut off the over one hundred million smackers we give to the feds with no return, make the feds pay the cost to upkeep the Port Of Vancouver, Demand Ottawa stop downloading serrvices to us that aren't downloaded to other provinces. The list really goes on, plus why can't we become more industry focused....because of outdated legislation like the NP that makes it cheaper for factories and the like to produce in Ontario.


ANd by the way any poll you have seen is more than likely conducted by an Eastern company who went into coffe shops in Downtown Vancouver. I promise you, the youth in this province are very separatist. It's the truth, the East loves to pretend this doesn't exsist, fine keep thinking that, it'll only be a bigger suprise when it becomes mainstream.

[HEyHEY]

10. I Can'[t remember

The article, but I think it was in Mcleans. It compared Quebec in the 60s to BC now...much of the same discontent and complaints..I thin it was called BC's quite revoloution...look it up

[Maple]

17. You will note

Quebec never went anywhere either...and they had genuine cause for complaint.

People live very nice lives in BC.

Hard to get a revolution going when people have houses and cars and jobs and beaches.

Disagreeing with the party in power...in a democracy...won't get people to storm the castle either.

Fantasy.

[HEyHEY]

19. quick question too

What is your opinion on the uneven distribution of seats in Parliment?

[Maple]

24. It's a historical leftover

that they assumed would be corrected as you guys grew.

Everyone expected the west to boom, and grow in population, and you'd have all kinds of representation.

The seat tally was put in there because PEI for example could never grow like the west could. It was their upper limit.

But you guys fizzled. Stayed stuck in the resources era, and never even went industrial much less high tech.

If you want to be at the cabinet table, vote Liberal.

If you want to boom...scrap the old era, and move to the new.

More MPs won't make a difference...or any elected senate.

It's not magic you know. PEI isn't exactly FatCat City...and they are awash in MPs and Senators for their size.

Only the people of BC can do it....and they can only do it by looking in the mirror and not blaming everyone else.

[HEyHEY]

25. See that kind of extortion is not right in a democracy

"Oh they didn't vote for the liberals so screw them?" Back in the day when we did vote LIB we got the NEP and a guy named Pierre (who I do like) giving us the finger. ANd saying things like "I got into politics to sae Quebec, someone else can deal with the West"

It's all there, this nation needs to de-centralize. ANyway, good chat but being in T.O. I bet you are more tired than myself...and I'm tired. ANywho, take er easy maple...if you want to continue this anytime just post something to get the dander up ;-) ciao!

[Maple]

28. Extortion??

How about common sense?

You can vote for the Green party if you want...it just won't help you.

Now do you want to sit there and whine, or do something useful?

Trudeau also gave you a constitution and charter of rights.

And is long since dead. So stop blaming him too.

Canada is the most decentralized country in the world already.

I'm 3 hours south of you.

And its only midnight.

[HEyHEY]

30. Oh, I had it in my mind your were from Toronto

Canada is not de-centrlized, it is if you grew up in Ontario and don't see what I'm talking about...how often does the nation's leader come to BC????

[Maple]

32. Canada

is the most decentralized country in the western world.

The leader goes to BC about as often as he comes here to SW Ontario.

I've lived in the Maritimes, Ontario, Alberta and BC...will you please find out how your country works!

[glarius]

23. This guy is looking for attention, I think

I don't like to be cruel, but if he's a journalist, his writing leaves a lot to be desired.....I want to laugh when I hear the word revolution in connection with Canada....There have been revolutions all over the world....PEOPLE BY THE THOUSANDS march in the streets and demand freedom....That's a revolution! Not a few dissatisfied bellyachers who need something to do with their time.....No country is perfect but we have a very good life in Canada....I wasn't going to jump in again but this is annoying.....:)
do you notice he uses a Canadian flag as his avatar...What does that mean, pray tell?

[HEyHEY]

26. well

Why do you get tt lay claim to the Flag...typical Easterner ideal that the East is Canada, maybe it's our (the wests)flag..and I'll have you know I am one of the best in my field for my age (despite lousy grammat and spelling on DU). And a revoloution has nothing to do with noise and violence rememebr "la revoluotion tranquille?"

If I wanted attention I streak a maple leafs game with "Ontario sucks" written on my ass cheeks ;-)

[glarius]

35. The so-called "Quiet Revolution" was not a revolution at all

I'm not talking about violence, I'm talking about people being engaged in the supposed revolution...The numbers just are not and never have been there...Quebecers had valid beefs in the past, which have been addressed, but there was never a "movement" to separate...Periodically, (in their hunger for power?), people such as Levesque, Parizeau, Bouchard, Landry and their ilk, con some of the citizens of Quebec into a quasi-support for sovereignty, through tricky questions in a referendum. The rest of the time, Quebecers live their non-revolutionary lives just like other Canadians, in work and play. . Polls taken after the last referendum disclosed that a very large percentage of those who voted yes for sovereignty, thought by the tricky wording of the question that they would still be Canadian citizens! Now that P.M Chretien has passed the law in the House of Commons making it compulsory for any future reforendum questions to be clear and unequivocal (this will be his legacy, IMO), I predict we will see no more referendums on this subject in Quebec!....
No hard feelings but this whole thing is getting so tiresome...I'm off to bed...
P.S...You didn't seem to get my point about the flag....I'm asking why you use the flag if you are such a separatist?

[Sephirstein]

37. The Quiet Revolution was a fucking revolution...

The Quiet Revolution wasn't a movement to separate Quebec from Canada and happened before separation: The man who engineered it -- PLQ leader Jean Lesage -- was VERY pro-Canada and a good friend of Trudeau's.

The Quiet Revolution consisted of:

1. Secularising Quebec and taking power away from the fallangists in Quebec's Catholic Church and their Union Nazionale (sic) buddies.

2. Provincialising certain essential industries. (Hydro Québec -- an extremely profitable provincial corporation -- was created during the Quiet Revoltuion.)

3. Ensuring that Francophone Quebeckers would be given a fair share of the economic pie held by Anglophones.

The modern separatist movement has its roots in extremists (including the Castroist FLQ) that felt that the Quiet Revolution didn't go enough and that Quebec should be its own country. The more moderate members of this group formed political parties -- of which the Parti Québécois still survives -- and became very successful in Quebec politics. The more extremist people committed acts of terror and sabotage in an attempt to get Quebec out of Canada. (These extremists have been more or less out of commission for nearly 30 years.)

I personally consider Lesage among the top tier of 1960s leaders (with people like Kennedy, Trudeau, Johnson, and de Gaulle), although most separatists don't think so highly of him because he was too "moderate".


Anyways, separatism is dying now, and a new revolution seems to sweeping through Quebc: Libertarianism.

I predict that between 2007 and 2020, the Action Démocratique will rise to power. I don't consider this a good thing, but I don't consider giving a voice to conservative and libertarian French Canadians to be a horrible thing, even though I disagree with them.

[Maple]

34. Kids I guess

He has no idea how the country works, but he's convinced by a couple of brochures, and a few grumps that everyone is out to get him.

I agree Glarius....the last thing likely to ever occur in Canada is any 'revolution'. Simply not needed.

We have a very good life. ;-)

[glarius]

36. Agreed!....I suppose I shouldn't have let it get under my skin, but I get

my hackles up whenever I hear reckless talk like that....We have so much to be thankful for, living on this continent...:)

[Maple]

16. Well then

there is the cost of all those pensions your population would be expecting, and total health care costs with no kick-in from the feds....plus welfare...no kick-in, plus all the upkeep of roads and harbours, and environmental practices...again with no fed kick-in. Same with education. You'd be paying for it all yourselves. On lumber and fish money.

Plus customs, a replacement for the Mounties, a currency, defence, immigration, etc

And of course you wouldn't be in NAFTA because Canada would veto it, and one to veto it is all it takes, or even be recognized by other countries....since to recognize you would lead to their own seccessionists stirring.

There is no plan that makes it cheaper for things to be made anywhere else. That is an excuse for doing nothing, and an easy way for your premier to look good by blaming all his failures on the feds.

There is no support for separatism. Youth is always gung-ho about something....because as yet they have no idea what it involves.

People from BC fought and died for Canada, invested in Canada, made their life plans based on being Canadian. They aren't about to throw it all away because some kids think it's a nifty idea.

[HEyHEY]

18. Yeah but Maple what isn't realized

Is that we already pay for that stuff ourselves. If we didn't have to pay for the rest of the nation. Then we'd be sitting pretty. Look at the National Policy, it is a blueprint to why the maritimes are impoverished. No support?
http://onetenwest.org/bbs/messages/145.html

That party are crackpots, and it's an old poll, but the numbers show it! ANd I thought it was a bunch of old grumps that were for it!

[Maple]

21. No you don't

You are a 'have-not' province...that means the feds are giving YOU money to survive.

You aren't paying for anything...you are on the receiving end!

There is no 'national policy' You are reading propaganda by a separatist group.

Same with the polls. Proper ones done by objective companies find zik support for the concept.

What kind of journalist will you ever be if you can't do a little research beyond propaganda brochures, and use a little skepticism and logic??

[HEyHEY]

22. That's all I've done

BCs income has fallen, the feds still take the sme numbers they did while we were on top. Hence the have not. Plus it's only a 75 million dollar figure.

The thing is, we pay for more than the average province by ourselves. So we need to use the equalization system more. If we didn't have to pay for things like highways and such we'd be even.
On edit, you can't deny that the NP exsisted..it's a fact.

[Maple]

27. BC income has fallen

because the provincial govt has frittered away every chance it ever had.

THAT'S why you are 'have-not'

Use your head guy...if they are doleing out money to you as a 'have-not' province....they aren't taking money.

You do not pay for more than any other province...you are using skewed figures used in a propaganda brochure by a few cranks.

Everyone pays for highways, and all the other things. The feds chip in too.

DO stop thinking you are being picked on...!

Do YOU want to pay for the Olympics yourself?

You mean THIS National Policy??

"Macdonald's National Policy was by now the chief target of the Liberals, who were calling for "unrestricted reciprocity" in trade with the United States. Macdonald won the 1891 election."

You might want to do some independent research there guy.

[HEyHEY]

29. done the research

I was using the Macdonald's NP as an example though not of what is going on today, but what has gone on.

ANd with the Olympics, that's what the big story out here was "Olympics will make the feds pay us our due" was the gist all over. We (I) don't feel picked on just neglected. Reminds me of a story where, in cabinet a BC mp Stood up and demanded federal attention to the Kitimat mine closure. He was told to sit down and an MP asked him why he "brought up such a local issue" the next the very next table issue that was talked about. The federal assistance to repave some of the 401. ANother example Toronto got 75 million to help it's transit. We asked for some a year before and were told "no." This isn't stuff from brichures, it's just local newspaper stories. anyway, I gotta go rest now. I do wish to continue one time though.

[Maple]

33. No you haven't

You didn't even know what the 'national policy' was...much less that it was a party policy, and in the 1800's for heavens sakes.

Not a govt policy...and not from anytime in the last century!

You believe these cabinet stories eh?

Ever consider why someone would tell you such hokum?

Stop believing rubbish.

The last thing Canada wants or needs is impoverished provinces...what the hell good would THAT do us??

What we'd LIKE is for the west to boom, and add to the prosperity of the country. Not take away from it.

Having you turn into a 'have-not' takes away from it.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glarius]

12. I don't want to join in your immature conversation...why do you have the

Canadian flag as your avatar if you are for separation...Hmmm?...That's all I have to say...This is too boring...

[HEyHEY]

13. Because my problem lies with the feds

The way the feds distrbute the wealth and voting power..My problem is not with my country, it's with these systems that persecute the West. I have no problem with the people of this nation.

http://onetenwest.org/bbs/messages/145.html

Check that link out for your 4 per cent correction

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maple]

31. Somehow you perceive the 'feds'

as someone alien to you.

You elect them you know.

Have cabinet ministers from BC and everything.

You figure your own people are persecuting you??

The 'feds' do not distribute wealth and voting power...you don't appear to have any idea how your country works.

[HEyHEY]

20. I should ad

I'm not some quebecoisesque hardcore separatist, if things change I'm all for the union